JW Non-Millennialism: Jesus comes again 'in the flesh'

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robert derrick

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Where else in Scripture describes a literal future thousand years?
6 times in 7 verses is sufficient.


Revelation does not say “one thousand” as you are suggesting but “a thousand.” The term “one thousand” is only found once in Scripture in Isaiah 30:17.
Never said one thousand, but a thousand the the thousand. Which means a thousand years.

I'll no longer argue about whether a thousand years is a thousand years or not.


It should therefore not be considered as a wooden figure. Scripture repeatedly uses round figures to describe a general idea or a spiritual concept rather than a literal wooden number.
It's not. it's a number written in ink on paper.


Please remember there is no “one thousand years” (1,000 yrs) mentioned in this passage but rather the symbolic phrase "a thousand years."
No, just a thousand and the thousand, is a english phrase for a thousand and the thousand.

For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.
 

robert derrick

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So, you believe in a general judgment when Jesus comes the next time. Righteous and the wicked will be judged at the same time before the same throne. Then they will go to their separate eternal destinies.
The natural sheep and goats will be separated from them left alive, after Armaggedon
The natural sheep and goats will be divided from among them left alive on earth after Armageddon's slaughter, and cleansing of Jeruslaem.

Goats go to hell, and sheep remain as the King's first subjects of His earthly kingdom.
I agree. But it is an eternal kingdom freed from the bondage of corruption, not your sin-cursed version full of wicked as the sand of the sea.
Still lying about what others say.

The everlasting kingdom of Christ is spiritual, not earthly. It is in heaven now, in the hearts of His saints, and will be in the New Jeruslaem on the new earth.
 

WPM

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The natural sheep and goats will be divided from among them left alive on earth after Armageddon's slaughter, and cleansing of Jeruslaem.

Goats go to hell, and sheep remain as the King's first subjects of His earthly kingdom.

This does not make sense.

So, who are all the wicked that sin, die and overrun your supposed future millennium?

The reality is: Jesus is coming to glorify all His saints, not usher millions of mortals into some imaginary millennial kingdom.

Still lying about what others say.

The everlasting kingdom of Christ is spiritual, not earthly. It is in heaven now, in the hearts of His saints, and will be in the New Jeruslaem on the new earth.

1. Is there sin in your future millennium?
2. Are there sinners in your future millennium?
3. Are there mortals in your future millennium?
4. Is there mortality in your future millennium?
5. Is there disease in your future millennium?
6. Is there decay in your future millennium?
 

robert derrick

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He continues in Matthew 25:19-30: “After a long time the lord of those servants cometh, and reckoneth with them. And so he that had received five talents came and brought other five talents, saying, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me five talents: behold, I have gained beside them five talents more. His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord. He also that had received two talents came and said, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me two talents: behold, I have gained two other talents beside them. His lord said unto him, Well done, good and faithful servant; thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord."

Here is a figurative picture of the final judgment that occurs at the all-consummating return of Jesus. This comes after a long protracted period where their service would be accounted.
More figurative again. Nearly the whole Bible is just figurative fable to you.

And he said unto him, Well, thou good servant: because thou hast been faithful in a very little, have thou authority over ten cities.

And the second came, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained five pounds.


Jesus is speaking of the literal reward of ruling over the earth during His reign, whether 5 or ten cities.

Does the Bible contradict itself?
No. Men contradict the Bible, when they preach their own prophecy of figures and symbols.

Why in places in the New Testament does it present the coming of the Lord as “at hand,” “near” or coming “quickly” or “shortly” while in other places it is presented as “after a long time”?
He comes quickly and shortly to save them that call upon His name.

The time between His appearing on earth in the flesh, and with His resurrected body, is undefined.


We didn’t see the reward of the righteous and the reward of the wicked. This is a picture of Judgment Day. Jesus says of the hypocrite in Luke 19:23, 26-27: “Wherefore then gavest not thou my money into the bank, that at my coming I might have required mine own with usury? … For I say unto you, That unto every one which hath shall be given; and from him that hath not, even that he hath shall be taken away from him. But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.”
These are Christians that become hypocrites in name only. They will not meet Him in the air, and many of them will no doubt be gathered with the armies around Armaggeddon to please their false Christian apostle and christ.

The rest will be rounded up with the goats, and executed.

Amils believe that Revelation 20 describes the intra-Advent period.
This indeed is a long indefinite period in between the first coming and second coming of Jesus. They believe that thousand years is a long extended figurative period that will be followed by a season of final persecution before the end.
You believe in a spiritual reign of Christ today.

You do not believe in His Millennium on earth.

I live the former, and believe the latter.
 

robert derrick

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In the highlighted meaning, both Premill and Amill are sects without a negative connotation.


sect:

1 a : a dissenting or schismatic religious body especially : one regarded as extreme or heretical
b : a religious denomination

2 archaic : sex sense 1 so is all her sect—William Shakespeare

3 a : a group adhering to a distinctive doctrine or to a leader
b : party
c : faction sect 2 of 2 abbreviation section; sectional
True. The only thing negative about being a sect, is behavior.
 

WPM

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6 times in 7 verses is sufficient.

That is ridiculous reasoning. This is the most figurative book in the Bible. There are 10 horns mentioned 6 time in Revelation. That does not make it literal. They represent rulers. There are 7 heads mentioned 5 time in Revelation. That does not make it literal. They represent kingdoms. Babylon is mentioned 6 time in Revelation. That does not make it literal. It is mystery spiritual Babylon. The dragon is mentioned 12 time in Revelation. That does not make it literal. It is symbol of the devil.

You do not seem to understand apocalyptic language. That is why your theology is messed up.

Never said one thousand, but a thousand the the thousand. Which means a thousand years.

I'll no longer argue about whether a thousand years is a thousand years or not.

Not so. It represents a long indefinite period of time. It is constantly used in a figurative sense in Scripture.

It's not. it's a number written in ink on paper.

No, just a thousand and the thousand, is a english phrase for a thousand and the thousand.

For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.

That is all you can do: abuse people with the Word. You try to inflame every time your theology is exposed. This is a sign you have nothing!
 
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WPM

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More figurative again. Nearly the whole Bible is just figurative fable to you.

And he said unto him, Well, thou good servant: because thou hast been faithful in a very little, have thou authority over ten cities.

And the second came, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained five pounds.


Jesus is speaking of the literal reward of ruling over the earth during His reign, whether 5 or ten cities.


No. Men contradict the Bible, when they preach their own prophecy of figures and symbols.


He comes quickly and shortly to save them that call upon His name.

The time between His appearing on earth in the flesh, and with His resurrected body, is undefined.



These are Christians that become hypocrites in name only. They will not meet Him in the air, and many of them will no doubt be gathered with the armies around Armaggeddon to please their false Christian apostle and christ.

The rest will be rounded up with the goats, and executed.



You believe in a spiritual reign of Christ today.

You do not believe in His Millennium on earth.

I live the former, and believe the latter.

The millennium began with the first resurrection. God’s people were raised into heaven and rule with Him now. They are no longer in Hades, It has been defeated. Jesus holds the keys of death and of Hades. We reign on earth now. Satan’s will get a short season at the end, when the mystery of iniquity is released to delude people.
 

robert derrick

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So, who are all the wicked that sin, die and overrun your supposed future millennium?
Once again, your unbelief in Christ's Millennium also becomes unbelief in His ability to do so with peace and prosperity.

Your opinion of the King is no good.

All them making war against the Lamb, will first be killed without mercy.

Then all the goats will be executed.

Then, during the King's reign, any man trespassing His law, will be fairly and impartially judged, with any sentence executed speedily.

And nations not keeping the feast of tabernacles will lose their rain, until they repent.
1. Is there sin in your future millennium?
Yes.

2. Are there sinners in your future millennium?

Got to be sinners, for there to be sinning.
3. Are there mortals in your future millennium?
Yes. Natural people left alive from them killed in His tribulation of wrath, slaughter at Armageddon, cleansing of Jeruslaem, and execution of the goats.

4. Is there mortality in your future millennium?
Got to be mortality, where there is natural flesh and blood, because they are made that way by Christ.

5. Is there disease in your future millennium?
Yes, which is what the leaves are for along the river to the seas.

The same in the new earth for the saved nations, along the river of life running in the street of New Jerusalem.

6. Is there decay in your future millennium?

Yes. That's what natural bodies do. Whether of men, lions, or lambs.

I notice you didn't ask about men being saved during Christ's reign on earth, which will be the greatest harvest of souls for a thousand years, than all thousands of years gone before.

But then, you only care about watching fire destroy the wicked.

Your spirit is as wrong in judgment, as is your opinion of the King's ability to rule the earth.
 

robert derrick

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That is ridiculous reasoning. This is the most figurative book in the Bible. There are 10 horns mentioned 6 time in Revelation. That does not make it literal. They represent rulers. There are 7 heads mentioned 5 time in Revelation. That does not make it literal. They represent kingdoms. Babylon is mentioned 6 time in Revelation. That does not make it literal. It is mystery spiritual Babylon. The dragon is mentioned 12 time in Revelation. That does not make it literal. It is symbol of the devil.

Just as there is symbology, that is obvious, there is words with plain meaning.
You do not seem to understand apocalyptic language. That is why your theology is messed up.
Oh, I can tell when a red dragon does not have wings, and a woman clothed with sun, moon, and stars is not wearing a Magi dress.
 

robert derrick

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The millennium began with the first resurrection. God’s people were raised into heaven and rule with Him now. They are no longer in Hades, It has been defeated. Jesus holds the keys of death and of Hades. We reign on earth now. Satan’s will get a short season at the end, when the mystery of iniquity is released to delude people.
You don't believe in the Millennium of Christ.

What you call millennium, is the false doctrine of the resurrection is passed, which Paul condemned as overthrowing the faith.

Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.
 

WPM

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Once again, your unbelief in Christ's Millennium also becomes unbelief in His ability to do so with peace and prosperity.

Your opinion of the King is no good.

All them making war against the Lamb, will first be killed without mercy.

Then all the goats will be executed.

Then, during the King's reign, any man trespassing His law, will be fairly and impartially judged, with any sentence executed speedily.

And nations not keeping the feast of tabernacles will lose their rain, until they repent.

None of this can be found in Revelation 20. If it was there you would have presented it. This is found in the Premil fiction books. It is fake news. It is a fairy tale.

Yes.

Got to be sinners, for there to be sinning.

Yes. Natural people left alive from them killed in His tribulation of wrath, slaughter at Armageddon, cleansing of Jeruslaem, and execution of the goats.

Got to be mortality, where there is natural flesh and blood, because they are made that way by Christ.

Yes, which is what the leaves are for along the river to the seas.

The same in the new earth for the saved nations, along the river of life running in the street of New Jerusalem.

Yes. That's what natural bodies do. Whether of men, lions, or lambs.

I notice you didn't ask about men being saved during Christ's reign on earth, which will be the greatest harvest of souls for a thousand years, than all thousands of years gone before.

But then, you only care about watching fire destroy the wicked.

Your spirit is as wrong in judgment, as is your opinion of the King's ability to rule the earth.

This will never happen. It is a Premil invention. You have avoided this like the plague any requests to show all your claims in Revelation 20. So far, you have provided nothing. That is because you add it unto the sacred text. That is forbidden in Scripture. But your extra-biblical theology requires it.

You don't believe in the Millennium of Christ.

What you call millennium, is the false doctrine of the resurrection is passed, which Paul condemned as overthrowing the faith.

Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.

Yaa-dee-daa-de-daa. You have nothing to refute Amil. You actually reinforce that position by your continual avoidance.
 
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WPM

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Just as there is symbology, that is obvious, there is words with plain meaning.

Oh, I can tell when a red dragon does not have wings, and a woman clothed with sun, moon, and stars is not wearing a Magi dress.

If you are adamant in interpreting a thousand years hyper-literally, how long is the “one hour” that the beast reigns with the “ten kings” in Revelation 17:12 is? i.e. is it sixty minutes?
 
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WPM

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Yes. That's what natural bodies do. Whether of men, lions, or lambs.

I notice you didn't ask about men being saved during Christ's reign on earth, which will be the greatest harvest of souls for a thousand years, than all thousands of years gone before.

But then, you only care about watching fire destroy the wicked.

Your spirit is as wrong in judgment, as is your opinion of the King's ability to rule the earth.

Yes, but Premil wrongly portrays a millennium of unparalleled peace and submission to Jesus where the lion and the lamb finally rest together in unity and love and where the glorified saints enjoy final bliss and then bam the slaughter trucks pull up to take these same sheep to Jerusalem for slaughter. How cruel and pointless! Then after a thousand literal years of supposed perfect peace and harmony where Jesus rules with a rod of iron, the millennial inheritors turn en-masse to Satan in their billions as the sand of the sea. It is this false picture and misplacement of Revelation 20 that Premil portrays that doesn't add up.
 
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ewq1938

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You don't believe in the Millennium of Christ.

What you call millennium, is the false doctrine of the resurrection is passed, which Paul condemned as overthrowing the faith.

Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.


To be fair they believe the resurrection is in the future. They believe the Millennium is happening now and the second coming is future as is the rapture and resurrection.
 
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WPM

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You don't believe in the Millennium of Christ.

What you call millennium, is the false doctrine of the resurrection is passed, which Paul condemned as overthrowing the faith.

Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.

You need to take time and find out what Amils really believe before trying to present yourself as some end-time authority. You do not have a clue what Amils believe. If you did you would not come out with these false charges all the time. The only thing you are exposing here is your own ignorance.
 
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Truth7t7

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To be fair they believe the resurrection is in the future. They believe the Millennium is happening now and the second coming is future as is the rapture and resurrection.
Correct, the 1,000 years is a non-literal symbolic time, and the rapture and resurrection take place at the second coming of Jesus Christ (The End)
 

Truth7t7

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You don't believe in the Millennium of Christ.

What you call millennium, is the false doctrine of the resurrection is passed, which Paul condemned as overthrowing the faith.

Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.
Your claim is a joke, a complete distraction

Jesus returns in fire and final judgment (The End) at this time the resurrection and catching up takes place in the "Twikling Of An Eye" (The End)
 

robert derrick

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None of this can be found in Revelation 20. If it was there you would have presented it. This is found in the Premil fiction books. It is fake news. It is a fairy tale.
As pointed out before. It's a silly suggestion, that everything in the Millennium of Jesus be found in Rev 20. It's the same as demanding every thing about the coming of Jesus be found Isaiah 53.

This will never happen. It is a Premil invention. You have avoided this like the plague any requests to show all your claims in Revelation 20. So far, you have provided nothing. That is because you add it unto the sacred text. That is forbidden in Scripture. But your extra-biblical theology requires it.



Yaa-dee-daa-de-daa. You have nothing to refute Amil. You actually reinforce that position by your continual avoidance.
We're certainly coming to a close, unless you come up with something new to consider. Or you address any of my points specifically.

Other than that, it's just you saying nah-ah, and repeating yourself.
 

robert derrick

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If you are adamant in interpreting a thousand years hyper-literally, how long is the “one hour” that the beast reigns with the “ten kings” in Revelation 17:12 is? i.e. is it sixty minutes?
And so we see the mind of of them making much of the Bible into fables.

Taking the plain meaning of words of Scripture, is 'hyper-literal'.

The Bible is not Aesop's fables.

Either the Millennium reign of Jesus Christ on earth is one thousand years to the day, or there is no Millennium of Christ at all.

All other 'millenniums' are fictions of men. Like all other gospels, than that of Jesus Christ.
 

robert derrick

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Yes, but Premil wrongly portrays a millennium of unparalleled peace and submission to Jesus where the lion and the lamb finally rest together in unity and love and where the glorified saints enjoy final bliss and then bam the slaughter trucks pull up to take these same sheep to Jerusalem for slaughter.
Churlish senselessness is not an argument of adults.

Your spit ball mentality has gotten old.


the millennial inheritors turn en-masse to Satan in their billions as the sand of the sea.
However many Gog and Magog may be, they will be them that obey outwardly, because of punishment of law, but not inwardly with faith and the Spirit.

Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.

Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

Your obvious disdain for the great harvest of souls by Jesus and His saints during His Millennium, while only looking for the burning up of all people not like yourself, plainly shows the spirit you are of, and that you no doubt fit the bill for having only an outward form of godliness.

The Pharisees were equally disdainful of any person that did not agree with them.

Your spirit and love of wrath needs to be repented of.

For the wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of God.

Your prophesy of Jesus coming again to kill off all unbelieving flesh, is false. He will still be coming to save them that would believe and obey Him from the heart, during His earthly reign.