Keeping the Sabbath tells people Who you Worship

[uncle silas]

When I received Christ as my Saviour, I also accepted Him as my Lord, confessing Him as my Creator/Maker, and thus unconsciously at the time, committing myself to a life of obedience.

Brakelite

Thank you for taking the time to write what you did, of your life and beliefs. I will reciprocate.

I was raised in a church that preached holiness to a very high decree. At the age of ten I responded to an altar call. The first noticeable difference I found in my life was, I became conscious of my sin/imperfections in a very real and profound way. This was something new, that I had never previously known. I know now it was evidence of me being in covenant, God had placed applicable law within me, and as you would agree:

Through the law we become conscious of sin Rom3:20

I would hear it often stated: ‘We must obey the TC’’

Whenever I heard that my thoughts turned inward and I felt much guilt. I didn’t have any problem not committing murder, adultery, stealing, taking the Lord’s name in vain, but it was if I instinctively knew I had to obey on the inside to obey the TC. I put that down to having the law in my heart and mind. I was right, Romch7 proves it. Paul himself stated he had to die to the law as he put it because he could not obey the law no one he and God need know he broke. And he referenced one of the TC concerning this.

So, I felt much guilt and shame because I could not obey the TC on the inside. Sin is sin-right? We cannot pick and choose what we obey and do not obey of applicable law. Paul himself said his sin on the inside condemned him as a pharisee, so he obviously felt it mattered.

I started to fear hell, I was not obeying the TC, the more I feared hell the worse the sin got. How did I end up? If you read Rom7:7-11 KJV, that is my testimony word for word of that time in my life. My experience was Saul the pharisees experience, so, I had tried to attain to Heaven as he had, and got the same result he got. For a while I left the church, dispirited at my faliure to conform to the law.

A few years later, someone asked me to read a book, in it was a chapter on Paul’s core gospel message. I was literally stunned by what I read. Christians had no righteousness of obeying the law. I actually dared to believe I could be a Christian after all as this was the case. I looked away from the law and to Christ, trusting he was my righteousness before God. When I did that, the sin lessened, before it had only got worse.

Concerning applicable law. At a very young age I understood what obeying the TC entailed, I did not know by reading the letter of them, my eyes were opened from within. Many today who read the letter of the TC don’t understand what obedience involves, they only have a shallow understanding, so, the greater conviction always come from within, not through reading the letter.

Thou shalt NOT, no wiggle room for error, perfectly obey them or stand guilty before them

Our experiences are very different. All I can say is, in all sincerity, as the law is now in my most inward parts, I cannot hide from any of it. If I looked to the TC, I would only see my shortcomings before them. If I look to Jesus, I have peace. Does this mean I can ignore applicable law and act however I like? Impossible, in my mind I know how God wants me to life, and in my heart(not my flesh) I want to live that way, for that is where law now is, in my heart.

 

[Brakelite]

Concerning the letter of the fourth commandment:


SDA members often quote the following:



Sin is the transgression of the law 1John3:4

Through the law we become conscious of sin Rom3:20

Any applicable ‘’law’’ is now in the believers hearts and minds. What is in your mind you in your mind must know. The law in your heart MUST bring heartfelt consciousness of sin when it is ‘’wilfully’’ ignored. This is true according to core scriptural truths sda members often quote.

So, if a person has no heartfelt consciousness of sin at failing to observe a set Saturday Sabbath, there are only two possibilities. Either that law as written has not been written in the mind and placed on the hearts of believers, or, if it has, no one could be a Christian unless they had heartfelt conviction of sin at failing to observe a set Saturday Sabbath.

Yet sda members accept people as Christians who have no consciousness of sin at failing to observe a set Saturday sabbath, why?

Because we believe in progressive revelation. Truth does not come to people all in one day. Look at the Reformation as an example. It took several centuries for various reformers to chime to rediscover truths that had been obscured or trodden underfoot by an apostate papacy, and even then they persecuted one another for not accepting new truth. It wasn't until Roger Williams in the early 18th century that the foundations of true religion liberty were exercised.
So the sabbath is of similar nature. For a Christian to appreciate the importance, the significance, the benefits, and the obligation of the Sabbath takes personal revelation. We don't judge anyone for not knowing. We recognise however that revelations of such import don't come without personal sincere study, and a hunger and love for truth.

Quote...Yet sda members accept people as Christians who have no consciousness of sin at failing to observe a set Saturday sabbath, why?

Because “ to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin. ”
James 4:17

 

[Johann]

Concerning the letter of the fourth commandment:


SDA members often quote the following:



Sin is the transgression of the law 1John3:4

Through the law we become conscious of sin Rom3:20

Any applicable ‘’law’’ is now in the believers hearts and minds. What is in your mind you in your mind must know. The law in your heart MUST bring heartfelt consciousness of sin when it is ‘’wilfully’’ ignored. This is true according to core scriptural truths sda members often quote.

So, if a person has no heartfelt consciousness of sin at failing to observe a set Saturday Sabbath, there are only two possibilities. Either that law as written has not been written in the mind and placed on the hearts of believers, or, if it has, no one could be a Christian unless they had heartfelt conviction of sin at failing to observe a set Saturday Sabbath.

Yet sda members accept people as Christians who have no consciousness of sin at failing to observe a set Saturday sabbath, why?

Let's not attack members of other denominations online.
1Co 1:11 For I have been informed about you, my brothers, by Ce's people, that there are wranglings among you.
1Co 1:12 I mean this, that one of you says, "I belong to Paul's party," another, "And I belong to Apollos' party," another, "And I belong to Cephas' party," another, "And I belong to Christ's party."
1Co 1:13 Christ has been parceled out by you! It was not Paul who was crucified for you, was it? You were not baptized in Paul's name, were you?
1Co 1:14 I am thankful that I baptized none of you but Crispus and Gaius,
1Co 1:15 so as to keep anyone from saying that you were baptized in my name.
1Co 1:16 Yes, I did baptize the family of Stephanas, too; I do not now recall that I baptized anyone else.
1Co 1:17 For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the good news -- but not by means of wisdom and rhetoric, so that the cross of Christ may not be emptied of its power.
Williams Bible.
1 Corinthians 12:12-14 (Lexham Bible Translation):
"For just as the body is one and has many members, but all the members of the body, although they are many, are one body, thus also Christ. For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free persons, and all were made to drink one Spirit. For the body is not one member, but many."

1 Corinthians 12:21-22:
"The eye cannot say to the hand, 'I have no need of you,' nor again the head to the feet, 'I have no need of you.' On the contrary, the parts of the body that seem to be weaker are indispensable."

1 Corinthians 12:25-26:
"So that there may be no division in the body, but the members may have the same concern for one another. And if one member suffers, all the members suffer together; if a member is honored, all the members rejoice together."

Paul stresses that no part of the body can function independently, just as no believer can thrive alone. All members are different yet equally valuable, and each plays a crucial role in the overall health and function of the body of Christ.

Another supportive passage is found in Romans 12:4-5:
"For just as in one body we have many members, and not all the members serve the same function, so we, who are many, are one body in Christ, and individually we are members of one another."

Both passages highlight that Christians are not only united in Christ but are also interdependent, requiring each other's gifts, roles, and support to function properly as the body of Christ.

Right?

J.

 

[Johann]

Brakelite

Thank you for taking the time to write what you did, of your life and beliefs. I will reciprocate.

I was raised in a church that preached holiness to a very high decree. At the age of ten I responded to an altar call. The first noticeable difference I found in my life was, I became conscious of my sin/imperfections in a very real and profound way. This was something new, that I had never previously known. I know now it was evidence of me being in covenant, God had placed applicable law within me, and as you would agree:

Through the law we become conscious of sin Rom3:20

I would hear it often stated: ‘We must obey the TC’’

Whenever I heard that my thoughts turned inward and I felt much guilt. I didn’t have any problem not committing murder, adultery, stealing, taking the Lord’s name in vain, but it was if I instinctively knew I had to obey on the inside to obey the TC. I put that down to having the law in my heart and mind. I was right, Romch7 proves it. Paul himself stated he had to die to the law as he put it because he could not obey the law no one he and God need know he broke. And he referenced one of the TC concerning this.

So, I felt much guilt and shame because I could not obey the TC on the inside. Sin is sin-right? We cannot pick and choose what we obey and do not obey of applicable law. Paul himself said his sin on the inside condemned him as a pharisee, so he obviously felt it mattered.

I started to fear hell, I was not obeying the TC, the more I feared hell the worse the sin got. How did I end up? If you read Rom7:7-11 KJV, that is my testimony word for word of that time in my life. My experience was Saul the pharisees experience, so, I had tried to attain to Heaven as he had, and got the same result he got. For a while I left the church, dispirited at my faliure to conform to the law.

A few years later, someone asked me to read a book, in it was a chapter on Paul’s core gospel message. I was literally stunned by what I read. Christians had no righteousness of obeying the law. I actually dared to believe I could be a Christian after all as this was the case. I looked away from the law and to Christ, trusting he was my righteousness before God. When I did that, the sin lessened, before it had only got worse.

Concerning applicable law. At a very young age I understood what obeying the TC entailed, I did not know by reading the letter of them, my eyes were opened from within. Many today who read the letter of the TC don’t understand what obedience involves, they only have a shallow understanding, so, the greater conviction always come from within, not through reading the letter.

Thou shalt NOT, no wiggle room for error, perfectly obey them or stand guilty before them

Our experiences are very different. All I can say is, in all sincerity, as the law is now in my most inward parts, I cannot hide from any of it. If I looked to the TC, I would only see my shortcomings before them. If I look to Jesus, I have peace. Does this mean I can ignore applicable law and act however I like? Impossible, in my mind I know how God wants me to life, and in my heart(not my flesh) I want to live that way, for that is where law now is, in my heart.

--in union with our dear Lord and great God, Jesus Christ, sealed with the Holy Spirit.
J.

 

[Brakelite]

Brakelite

Thank you for taking the time to write what you did, of your life and beliefs. I will reciprocate.

I was raised in a church that preached holiness to a very high decree. At the age of ten I responded to an altar call. The first noticeable difference I found in my life was, I became conscious of my sin/imperfections in a very real and profound way. This was something new, that I had never previously known. I know now it was evidence of me being in covenant, God had placed applicable law within me, and as you would agree:

Through the law we become conscious of sin Rom3:20

I would hear it often stated: ‘We must obey the TC’’

Whenever I heard that my thoughts turned inward and I felt much guilt. I didn’t have any problem not committing murder, adultery, stealing, taking the Lord’s name in vain, but it was if I instinctively knew I had to obey on the inside to obey the TC. I put that down to having the law in my heart and mind. I was right, Romch7 proves it. Paul himself stated he had to die to the law as he put it because he could not obey the law no one he and God need know he broke. And he referenced one of the TC concerning this.

So, I felt much guilt and shame because I could not obey the TC on the inside. Sin is sin-right? We cannot pick and choose what we obey and do not obey of applicable law. Paul himself said his sin on the inside condemned him as a pharisee, so he obviously felt it mattered.

I started to fear hell, I was not obeying the TC, the more I feared hell the worse the sin got. How did I end up? If you read Rom7:7-11 KJV, that is my testimony word for word of that time in my life. My experience was Saul the pharisees experience, so, I had tried to attain to Heaven as he had, and got the same result he got. For a while I left the church, dispirited at my faliure to conform to the law.

A few years later, someone asked me to read a book, in it was a chapter on Paul’s core gospel message. I was literally stunned by what I read. Christians had no righteousness of obeying the law. I actually dared to believe I could be a Christian after all as this was the case. I looked away from the law and to Christ, trusting he was my righteousness before God. When I did that, the sin lessened, before it had only got worse.

Concerning applicable law. At a very young age I understood what obeying the TC entailed, I did not know by reading the letter of them, my eyes were opened from within. Many today who read the letter of the TC don’t understand what obedience involves, they only have a shallow understanding, so, the greater conviction always come from within, not through reading the letter.

Thou shalt NOT, no wiggle room for error, perfectly obey them or stand guilty before them

Our experiences are very different. All I can say is, in all sincerity, as the law is now in my most inward parts, I cannot hide from any of it. If I looked to the TC, I would only see my shortcomings before them. If I look to Jesus, I have peace. Does this mean I can ignore applicable law and act however I like? Impossible, in my mind I know how God wants me to life, and in my heart(not my flesh) I want to live that way, for that is where law now is, in my heart.

You no doubt know the expression righteousness by faith. Righteousness by faith is the core to the adventist message. Many accuse us of legalism.... such accusations come from a mindset of failure and laziness to properly bother to learn and understand what we truly teach. That's not to say there aren't perhaps some of our members who in their attitude, have a sense that by doing good, like maybe keeping sabbath, or being a vegetarian, or paying tithe , they are earning brownie points with God and thus improving their chances of getting to heaven. I think there are likely such people in every denomination. Maybe there are even people who don't belong to denominations who think their independence is giving them some sort of advantage over others.
But righteousness by faith removes legalism, and removes fanaticism. I'll be honest. There was a period in our history when the church in its infancy travelled that road for a time. In the 1890s, less than 20 years after the church's official genesis, and 10 years after 2 of our leading theologians preached a powerful message on righteousness by faith which Ellen White fully endorsed, she had this to say at a major camp meeting...
Brethren, shall we not all of us leave our loads there? and when we leave this meeting, may it be with the truth burning in our souls like fire shut up in our bones. You will meet with those who will say, "You are too much excited over this matter. You are too much in earnest. You should not be reaching for the righteousness of Christ, and making so much of that. You should preach the law." As a people, we have preached the law until we are as dry as the hills of Gilboa that had neither dew nor rain. We must preach Christ in the law, and there will be sap and nourishment in the preaching that will be as food to the famishing flock of God. We must not trust in our own merits at all, but in the merits of Jesus of Nazareth. Our eyes must be anointed with eye-salve. We must draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to us, if we come in his own appointed way. O that you may go forth as the disciples did after the day of Pentecost, and then your testimony will have a living ring, and souls will be converted to God. RH March 11, 1890, par. 13
Righteousness by faith needs to be taught from every pulpit in every church in Christendom. I don't think it's fully understood at all. Some assume that it is impossible that the believer ever becomes or is made righteous; he is only declared righteous when in fact he is not righteous at all.
True justification by faith, which is the same as righteousness by faith, makes a believer righteous in the sense that it makes him to be an obedient doer of the law. Millions of years of obedience on the part of the repentant sinner could never atone for his sin: he does not and never will have one iota of merit. But faith in Christ delivers him from his captivity to disobedience to the law, and sets him on the path to obedience. (As I said, it doesn't all happen immediately. In fact, it's a work of a lifetime... character improvement.)
The faith that operates in genuine justification by faith is a working faith, and the atonement cannot be a true reconciliation with God unless it effects a corresponding reconciliation with the character of God, which is obedience to His holy law. Any so called justification by faith which declares a man just who continues to deliberately disobey the law of God is a lie, for it has distorted both justification and faith and understands neither.
“Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law. ”
Romans 3:31

 

[uncle silas]

Because we believe in progressive revelation. Truth does not come to people all in one day. Look at the Reformation as an example. It took several centuries for various reformers to chime to rediscover truths that had been obscured or trodden underfoot by an apostate papacy, and even then they persecuted one another for not accepting new truth. It wasn't until Roger Williams in the early 18th century that the foundations of true religion liberty were exercised.
So the sabbath is of similar nature. For a Christian to appreciate the importance, the significance, the benefits, and the obligation of the Sabbath takes personal revelation. We don't judge anyone for not knowing. We recognise however that revelations of such import don't come without personal sincere study, and a hunger and love for truth.

Quote...Yet sda members accept people as Christians who have no consciousness of sin at failing to observe a set Saturday sabbath, why?

Because “ to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin. ”
James 4:17

Im afraid progressive revelation where the law written in your mind and placed on your heart is concerned is not scriptural. The other nine of the TC I knew were immediatley written in my mind and placed on my heart by the Spirit. That was fifty years ago, I have never once had consciousness of sin concerning failing to observe a set Saturday Sabbath. I would remind you, the law within will always convict of sin to a far greater degree than any law written in ink ever will. The following does not speak of a gradual process:
“This is the covenant I will make with them
after that time, says the Lord.
I will put my laws in their hearts,
and I will write them on their minds.”[b]
17 Then he adds:

“Their sins and lawless acts
I will remember no more. Heb10:15-17

I have witnessed people, who must look to a written law laughing and joking as they transgress the TC, apparantly unaware they are transgressing the commands they insist all must follow.
It is not a written law anymore for the believer, but one written on tablets of human hearts(2Cor3:3)

 

[Brakelite]

Im afraid progressive revelation where the law written in your mind and placed on your heart is concerned is not scriptural. The other nine of the TC I knew were immediatley written in my mind and placed on my heart by the Spirit. That was fifty years ago, I have never once had consciousness of sin concerning failing to observe a set Saturday Sabbath. I would remind you, the law within will always convict of sin to a far greater degree than any law written in ink ever will. The following does not speak of a gradual process:
“This is the covenant I will make with them
after that time, says the Lord.
I will put my laws in their hearts,
and I will write them on their minds.”[b]
17 Then he adds:

“Their sins and lawless acts
I will remember no more. Heb10:15-17

I have witnessed people, who must look to a written law laughing and joking as they transgress the TC, apparantly unaware they are transgressing the commands they insist all must follow.
It is not a written law anymore for the believer, but one written on tablets of human hearts(2Cor3:3)

You think there is nothing in your heart you aren't aware of? Did not Jeremiah say that the heart of man is deceitful above all things? If you do not believe the Sabbath to be included in the law, that there only 9 commandments, then how closely will you really listen to the voice of conscience?

 

[uncle silas]

You no doubt know the expression righteousness by faith. Righteousness by faith is the core to the adventist message. Many accuse us of legalism.... such accusations come from a mindset of failure and laziness to properly bother to learn and understand what we truly teach. That's not to say there aren't perhaps some of our members who in their attitude, have a sense that by doing good, like maybe keeping sabbath, or being a vegetarian, or paying tithe , they are earning brownie points with God and thus improving their chances of getting to heaven. I think there are likely such people in every denomination. Maybe there are even people who don't belong to denominations who think their independence is giving them some sort of advantage over others.
But righteousness by faith removes legalism, and removes fanaticism. I'll be honest. There was a period in our history when the church in its infancy travelled that road for a time. In the 1890s, less than 20 years after the church's official genesis, and 10 years after 2 of our leading theologians preached a powerful message on righteousness by faith which Ellen White fully endorsed, she had this to say at a major camp meeting...
Brethren, shall we not all of us leave our loads there? and when we leave this meeting, may it be with the truth burning in our souls like fire shut up in our bones. You will meet with those who will say, "You are too much excited over this matter. You are too much in earnest. You should not be reaching for the righteousness of Christ, and making so much of that. You should preach the law." As a people, we have preached the law until we are as dry as the hills of Gilboa that had neither dew nor rain. We must preach Christ in the law, and there will be sap and nourishment in the preaching that will be as food to the famishing flock of God. We must not trust in our own merits at all, but in the merits of Jesus of Nazareth. Our eyes must be anointed with eye-salve. We must draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to us, if we come in his own appointed way. O that you may go forth as the disciples did after the day of Pentecost, and then your testimony will have a living ring, and souls will be converted to God. RH March 11, 1890, par. 13
Righteousness by faith needs to be taught from every pulpit in every church in Christendom. I don't think it's fully understood at all. Some assume that it is impossible that the believer ever becomes or is made righteous; he is only declared righteous when in fact he is not righteous at all.
True justification by faith, which is the same as righteousness by faith, makes a believer righteous in the sense that it makes him to be an obedient doer of the law. Millions of years of obedience on the part of the repentant sinner could never atone for his sin: he does not and never will have one iota of merit. But faith in Christ delivers him from his captivity to disobedience to the law, and sets him on the path to obedience. (As I said, it doesn't all happen immediately. In fact, it's a work of a lifetime... character improvement.)
The faith that operates in genuine justification by faith is a working faith, and the atonement cannot be a true reconciliation with God unless it effects a corresponding reconciliation with the character of God, which is obedience to His holy law. Any so called justification by faith which declares a man just who continues to deliberately disobey the law of God is a lie, for it has distorted both justification and faith and understands neither.
“Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law. ”
Romans 3:31

‘’True justification by faith, which is the same as righteousness by faith, makes a believer righteous in the sense that it makes him to be an obedient doer of the law’’



‘’The faith that operates in genuine justification by faith is a working faith, and the atonement cannot be a true reconciliation with God unless it effects a corresponding reconciliation with the character of God, which is obedience to His holy law.’’



In the real world, a person following the above will live their life under a justification of observing the law. They are being asked to look to the law, and obey it, in order for them to have righteousness of faith in Christ.



If I asked you if someone could be in a saved state if they did not obey the TC? How would you respond?

Most who stress ‘’law’’ would reply ‘’No’’

That would mean, if you dwell on any impure thought you cannot be in a saved state

If you desire ANYTHING of your neighbours, whether material goods or a member of their household you cannot be in a saved state

If you put anything before God in your life, you cannot be in a saved state

If you tell any even little fibs about another you cannot be in a saved state.

If you erect any graven image in your mind you cannot be in a saved state.



I don’t mean you personally. But if someone said to me:

‘You must obey the TC’’ understanding what that entails I would become crushed. I will not water down the law of God from the pristine level it is set at. If I do n ot look to Jesus, rather than the law I would sink

 

[uncle silas]

You think there is nothing in your heart you aren't aware of? Did not Jeremiah say that the heart of man is deceitful above all things? If you do not believe the Sabbath to be included in the law, that there only 9 commandments, then how closely will you really listen to the voice of conscience?

I can asure you, I have had far greater conviction of sin in my life, than the average person who insists the TC must be obeyed. I went to a church on a Saturday for a while to please a friend. It was constantly stressed 'You must obey the TC.' I saw more flagrant sinning against those commands in that church than any church I have ever been to on a Sunday in over forty years
The heart may be deceitful, but, when God put's applicable law within you there is no hiding from it. God did not make an imperfect covenant, he made sure a deceitful heart would not stop consciousness of sin regarding the law within . When Paul wrote Rom3:20, he did not add a caveat that deceitful hearts may not be conscious of sin concerning the law.
SDA members pick and choose the sola scripture they accept.In Rom ch14 Paul writes in the first verse of what he calles 'disputable matters' in other words, you are free to choose concenring such things if you adhere to them or not.
In verse five he state one man considers one day more sacred than another, another man considers every day alike let each one be sure in their own mind.
In verses 14&20 he plainly states ALL food is clean

 

[uncle silas]

Let's not attack members of other denominations online.


Right?

J.

It is perfectly proper to point out to a member of any denomination the error of their understanding where the outworking of the core foundation of the NC is concerned

 

[Johann]

Let us consider the people who become crushed and give up with Christ due to people making demands of them they do not demand of themselves. Jesus reserved his harshest words for people who acted that way. I have never used such words debating anyone
BTW, Im sure brakelite is a nice person, but sda as a whole either are guilty of only having a shallow understanding of what the law demands, or, they wilfully insist of others what they do not insist of themselves.

Just a gentle reminder to ALL of us as the Name of Christ Jesus is blasphemed by the Goyim observing US.

Isaiah 52:5 (NKJV):
"Now therefore, what have I here,” says the LORD, “That My people are taken away for nothing? Those who rule over them make them wail,” says the LORD, “And My name is blasphemed continually every day."

Ezekiel 36:20-21 (NKJV):
"When they came to the nations, wherever they went, they profaned My holy name-when they said of them, ‘These are the people of the LORD, and yet they have gone out of His land.’ But I had concern for My holy name, which the house of Israel had profaned among the nations wherever they went."

Romans 2:24 (NKJV):
"For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you, as it is written."

Rom 2:12 All who sin without having the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law.
Rom 2:13 For merely hearing the law read does not make men upright with God, but men who practice the law will be recognized as upright.
Rom 2:14 Indeed, when heathen people who have no law instinctively do what the law demands, although they have no law, they are a law to themselves,
Rom 2:15 for they show that the deeds the law demands are written on their hearts, because their consciences will testify for them, and their inner thoughts will either accuse or defend them,
Rom 2:16 on the day when God through Jesus Christ, in accordance with the good news I preach, will judge the secrets people have kept.
Rom 2:17 Now if you call yourself a Jew, and rely on law, and boast about God,
Rom 2:18 and understand His will, and by being instructed in the law can know the things that excel,
Rom 2:19 and if you are sure that you are a guide to the blind, a light to those in darkness,
Rom 2:20 a tutor of the foolish, a teacher of the young, since you have a knowledge of the truth as formulated in the law --
Rom 2:21 you who teach others, do you not teach yourself too? You who preach that men should not steal, do you steal yourself?
Rom 2:22 You who warn men to stop committing adultery, do you practice it yourself? You who shrink in horror from idols, do you rob their temples?
Rom 2:23 You who boast about the law, do you by breaking it dishonor God?
Rom 2:24 For, as the Scripture says, the name of God is abused among the heathen because of you.
Rom 2:25 Now circumcision benefits you only if you practice the law, but if you break the law, your circumcision is no better than uncircumcision.
Rom 2:26 So if the uncircumcised heathen man observes the just demands of the law, will he not be counted as though he were a Jew?
Rom 2:27 And shall not the heathen man who is physically uncircumcised, and yet observes the law, condemn you who have the letter of the law and are physically circumcised, and yet break the law?
Rom 2:28 For the real Jew is not the man who is a Jew on the outside, and real circumcision is not outward physical circumcision.
Rom 2:29 The real Jew is the man who is a Jew on the inside, and real circumcision is heart-circumcision, a spiritual, not a literal, affair. This man's praise originates, not with men, but with God.

My apologies @uncle silas since I din't realize it was you.
Shalom.
J.

 

[Brakelite]

In the real world, a person following the above will live their life under a justification of observing the law. They are being asked to look to the law, and obey it, in order for them to have righteousness of faith in Christ.

If their focus was on the law, yes, you'd be correct. But our focus is always to be on Jesus. Without Him we can do nothing. The fruits of righteousness can only come by abiding in Christ. BTW. we aren't the first people to say that the result of a right relationship with Jesus is a life lived in harmony with the law.
Paul taught the same. Yet the law is still a mirror.
“But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed. ”
James 2:25
So what are we to do when we look upon the law and discover our transgression? Do we try harder? Do we strive to obey better? No! That is not faith. We look to Jesus. We trust in His power to transform us into His image. We always look to Jesus for all things. And the Sabbath, resting on the day God stipulates, is a sign of that resting in Jesus for salvation, sanctification, and ultimately, glorification.

 

[Brakelite]

It is perfectly proper to point out to a member of any denomination the error of their understanding where the outworking of the core foundation of the NC is concerned

Are you responding to me based on what I wrote here, or on what you perceive my denomination teaches? There are numerous critics of Adventism out there. I do honestly wonder however how many of them actually make an attempt to study our doctrines sincerely, in order to know why we believe what we believe. Too many I suggest judge according to what they have heard and read from our enemies, rather than personal investigation. We know what people criticise. We hear them, and read them regularly, and are not shy to defend every belief we have. Some doctrines though cannot be explained in 1 and a 1\2 minutes, which many people don't have the focus or attention span to proved beyond that these days.

 

[uncle silas]

If their focus was on the law, yes, you'd be correct. But our focus is always to be on Jesus. Without Him we can do nothing. The fruits of righteousness can only come by abiding in Christ. BTW. we aren't the first people to say that the result of a right relationship with Jesus is a life lived in harmony with the law.
Paul taught the same. Yet the law is still a mirror.
“But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed. ”
James 2:25
So what are we to do when we look upon the law and discover our transgression? Do we try harder? Do we strive to obey better? No! That is not faith. We look to Jesus. We trust in His power to transform us into His image. We always look to Jesus for all things. And the Sabbath, resting on the day God stipulates, is a sign of that resting in Jesus for salvation, sanctification, and ultimately, glorification.

What you are saying would be no ones reality. If obedience to the law is lnked to eternal security, however it is worded, it is inevitable the believer will hinge their hope of Heaven on obeying the law. I am a witness to this in my own life. Bottom line then is, if you do not obey the law you cannot enter heaven.
Under such circumstances, you must live your life under righteousnessness of obeying the law
Jesus died for your sins as long as you obey the law.

 

[uncle silas]

Are you responding to me based on what I wrote here, or on what you perceive my denomination teaches? There are numerous critics of Adventism out there. I do honestly wonder however how many of them actually make an attempt to study our doctrines sincerely, in order to know why we believe what we believe. Too many I suggest judge according to what they have heard and read from our enemies, rather than personal investigation. We know what people criticise. We hear them, and read them regularly, and are not shy to defend every belief we have. Some doctrines though cannot be explained in 1 and a 1\2 minutes, which many people don't have the focus or attention span to proved beyond that these days.

I believe you are a nice person, so I will be guarded in what I write here, as I sincerely do not wish to offend you.

About 10 years ago someone I knew asked me to go to an sda church with them. The only thing I knew about the church at that time was, they worshipped on a Saturday. For me, that was no big deal, based on my understanding of the bible. I wanted to be inclusive, rather than exclusive, so I happily went to the church with a completely open mind.

And, the first week I was there, the service seemed remarkably similar to the evangelical church of my youth(apart from a couple of obvious differences)

I then had first hand experience of Adventism, and the people in the church

All Im going to say is this, and it is nothing to do with which day they went to church, or the fact they avoid the Levitical unclean foods. There was a difference in that church, from what I knew and was comfortable with, and, from the second week I was there it became apparent.

Im sure you will remain an Adventist for the rest of your life, and I sincerely wish you well. But the gulf is too great for me.
BTW, as to your original question, this is what I was referring to:
Sin is the transgression of the law 1John3:4

Through the law we become conscious of sin Rom3:20

Any applicable ‘’law’’ is now in the believers hearts and minds. What is in your mind you in your mind must know. The law in your heart MUST bring heartfelt consciousness of sin when it is ‘’wilfully’’ ignored. This is true according to core scriptural truths.

So, if a person has no consciousness of sin at failing to observe a set Saturday Sabbath, there are only two possibilities. Either that law as written has not been written in the mind and placed on the hearts of believers, or, if it has, no one could be a Christian unless they had heartfelt conviction of sin at failing to observe a set Saturday Sabbath.

Yet sda members accept people as Christians who have no consciousness of sin at failing to observe a set Saturday sabbath, why?

 

[uncle silas]

Are you responding to me based on what I wrote here, or on what you perceive my denomination teaches? There are numerous critics of Adventism out there. I do honestly wonder however how many of them actually make an attempt to study our doctrines sincerely, in order to know why we believe what we believe. Too many I suggest judge according to what they have heard and read from our enemies, rather than personal investigation. We know what people criticise. We hear them, and read them regularly, and are not shy to defend every belief we have. Some doctrines though cannot be explained in 1 and a 1\2 minutes, which many people don't have the focus or attention span to proved beyond that these days.

I will give you an example of what I believe:
A businessman dreaded leaving his family and going away on business trips, for every time he did, he was addicted to watching porn on his laptop. One day, he entered a church and the minister spoke of Jesus dying for all our sins, past, present and future. The man dared to beleive it and went on his way. Imagine, he believed his eternal security no longer hinged on obeying the TC, for he believed Jesus died for all his sins, and watching porn on a laptop transgresses those commands.
What was the result of his new found belief? Did he sin as much as he wanted to because he had no righteousness of obeying the law/he believed Jesus died for all his sins? He wasn't even looking to the law, he was looking to Christ.
Actually no, in a very short time he was completely delivered from watching internet porn. The power of sin had been removed from his life
For the power of sin is the law 1Cor15:56

 

[Wrangler]

This is the only one of the ten that tells you who you are worshipping and why. Take out the 4th commandment

Explain. How does the 4C do this, tell us who we are worshipping and why?

I'm a HUGE believer in the Sabbath. You mentioned Warren Buffet but I got another name for you, Steve Covey. The 7th Habit is a form of Sabbath. Great principle and a great gift from our great God.

Those who are against it make no sense to me. On what sick principle do you reject what is good for you and show contempt for a gift from our Creator?

 

[ChristinaL]

What you are saying would be no ones reality. If obedience to the law is lnked to eternal security, however it is worded, it is inevitable the believer will hinge their hope of Heaven on obeying the law. I am a witness to this in my own life. Bottom line then is, if you do not obey the law you cannot enter heaven.
Under such circumstances, you must live your life under righteousnessness of obeying the law
Jesus died for your sins as long as you obey the law.

Jesus died for us because we cannot obey the law. If the Law could be perfectly kept then His sacrifice is worthless. If we choose to obey the Law we do it out of love for Christ but we all will stumble or even fall..........that does not mean we arent saved. Our salvation is not and never was dependent on keeping the Law

 

[Brakelite]

Explain. How does the 4C do this, tell us who we are worshipping and why?

I'm a HUGE believer in the Sabbath. You mentioned Warren Buffet but I got another name for you, Steve Covey. The 7th Habit is a form of Sabbath. Great principle and a great gift from our great God.

Those who are against it make no sense to me. On what sick principle do you reject what is good for you and show contempt for a gift from our Creator?

Within the Sabbath commandment are certain identifiers that none of the other commandments have. Just like a seal of a human ruler such as the President of the USA, God has placed His seal within His law. This He did in the 4th commandment revealing how much He regards not just that one commandment, but His law overall.
The4th commandment contains God's name, His title, and the territory over which He governs. It is as if God had placed His seal on His law, in order to show by whose authority the law is given.

“8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: 10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: 11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it. ”
Exodus 20:8-11 KJV

Unfeigned Bible

Unfeigned Bible

www.unfeignedbible.app

Interestingly, Isaiah said...
“13 Sanctify the LORD of hosts himself; and let him be your fear, and let him be your dread. 14 And he shall be for a sanctuary; but for a stone of stumbling and for a rock of offence to both the houses of Israel, for a gin and for a snare to the inhabitants of Jerusalem. 15 And many among them shall stumble, and fall, and be broken, and be snared, and be taken. 16 Bind up the testimony, seal the law among my disciples. ”
Isaiah 8:13-16 KJV
Unfeigned Bible

The above is even more poignant when we are told in Revelation that the final church at the second coming of Christ will be a commandment keeping church having the testimony of Jesus.

 

[Hobie]

Because we believe in progressive revelation. Truth does not come to people all in one day. Look at the Reformation as an example. It took several centuries for various reformers to chime to rediscover truths that had been obscured or trodden underfoot by an apostate papacy, and even then they persecuted one another for not accepting new truth. It wasn't until Roger Williams in the early 18th century that the foundations of true religion liberty were exercised.
So the sabbath is of similar nature. For a Christian to appreciate the importance, the significance, the benefits, and the obligation of the Sabbath takes personal revelation. We don't judge anyone for not knowing. We recognise however that revelations of such import don't come without personal sincere study, and a hunger and love for truth.

Quote...Yet sda members accept people as Christians who have no consciousness of sin at failing to observe a set Saturday sabbath, why?

Because “ to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin. ”
James 4:17

Some lock up with false tradition and never turn to truth as we see..