Kenosis False Teaching

[marks]

John 5:26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;

John 5:30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.

John 5:36 But I have greater witness than that of John: for the works which the Father hath given me to finish, the same works that I do, bear witness of me, that the Father hath sent me.

For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

John 6:32 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven.

John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Do you remember how Jesus said that if He be "lifted up", that is, crucified, that He would draw all men to Himself?

But at the time, "except the Father . . . draw him".

Much love!

 

[Ziggy]

Not to worry! These are good questions!

Jesus knew Who He was, where He had come from, and that He was returning there, John 13.

Peter walked on water, Peter also raised the dead, so using one's own divine power isn't required, as Peter did not have that. Peter did these things through the power of the Holy Spirit.

Mark 3:22-30
22) And the scribes which came down from Jerusalem said, He hath Beelzebub, and by the prince of the devils casteth he out devils.
23) And he called them unto him, and said unto them in parables, How can Satan cast out Satan?
24) And if a kingdom be divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand.
25) And if a house be divided against itself, that house cannot stand.
26) And if Satan rise up against himself, and be divided, he cannot stand, but hath an end.
27) No man can enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he will first bind the strong man; and then he will spoil his house.
28) Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme:
29) But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation:
30) Because they said, He hath an unclean spirit.

The Pharisees said that Jesus cast the devils out by the prince of devils. Jesus warned them against calling the Holy Spirit, the true source, an unclean spirit.

In the parallel passage:

Matthew 12:24-28
24) But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, This fellow doth not cast out devils, but by Beelzebub the prince of the devils.
25) And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand:
26) And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand?
27) And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your children cast them out? therefore they shall be your judges.
28) But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.

Jesus comes right out with it, He casts our devils by the Spirit of God. That is how we can cast out devils.

Jesus knew that He is I AM, but took no advantage of that fact. Again, to live a completely human life, yet without the corruption of sin, without committing sin, and knowing He is God.

He wasn't just a man, but lived as just a man.

John 5:19 "Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise."

And this is exactly how we are to live, nothing of ourselves, everything from God, in His power, by His Spirit.

Much love!

I was working on a passage today concerning a son who had a father who was an egyptian and a mother who was an israelite.
I believe it is in Leviticus 24.
I will quote and see if you see what I saw.
I am using your example when it comes to blaspheming the Holy Spirit.. okay?

Lev 24:10 And the son of an Israelitish woman, whose father was an Egyptian, went out among the children of Israel: and this son of the Israelitish woman and a man of Israel strove together in the camp;
Lev 24:11 And the Israelitish woman's son blasphemed the name of the LORD, and cursed. And they brought him unto Moses: (and his mother's name was Shelomith, the daughter of Dibri, of the tribe of Dan
Lev 24:12 And they put him in ward, that the mind of the LORD might be shewed them.
Lev 24:13 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
Lev 24:14 Bring forth him that hath cursed without the camp; and let all that heard him lay their hands upon his head, and let all the congregation stone him.
Lev 24:15 And thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel, saying, Whosoever curseth his God shall bear his sin.
Lev 24:16 And he that blasphemeth the name of the LORD, he shall surely be put to death, and all the congregation shall certainly stone him: as well the stranger, as he that is born in the land, when he blasphemeth the name of the LORD, shall be put to death.

Who was the son blaspheming?

HUGS
and Thank You!

 

[marks]

The Trinity definition

I'm still waiting your response in this thread.

Based on what I've seen in this thread, I'm not too interested, sorry.

Much love!

 

[marks]

I was working on a passage today concerning a son who had a father who was an egyptian and a mother who was an israelite.
I believe it is in Leviticus 24.
I will quote and see if you see what I saw.
I am using your example when it comes to blaspheming the Holy Spirit.. okay?

Lev 24:10 And the son of an Israelitish woman, whose father was an Egyptian, went out among the children of Israel: and this son of the Israelitish woman and a man of Israel strove together in the camp;
Lev 24:11 And the Israelitish woman's son blasphemed the name of the LORD, and cursed. And they brought him unto Moses: (and his mother's name was Shelomith, the daughter of Dibri, of the tribe of Dan:)
Lev 24:12 And they put him in ward, that the mind of the LORD might be shewed them.
Lev 24:13 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
Lev 24:14 Bring forth him that hath cursed without the camp; and let all that heard him lay their hands upon his head, and let all the congregation stone him.
Lev 24:15 And thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel, saying, Whosoever curseth his God shall bear his sin.
Lev 24:16 And he that blasphemeth the name of the LORD, he shall surely be put to death, and all the congregation shall certainly stone him: as well the stranger, as he that is born in the land, when he blasphemeth the name of the LORD, shall be put to death.

Who was the son blaspheming?

HUGS
and Thank You!

Blaspheming against God, I'm not sure what you are seeing here. Do you mean, what he blaspheming the Father? OR the Son? OR the Spirit?

I mention the passages to show that Jesus cast out devils by the Holy Spirit, rather than by Himself.

Much love!

 

[marks]

He emptied Himself, yet in Him dwelt all the fullness of the Godhead bodily. He was 100% human, yet 100% divine. I don't understand it but I believe it.

Just so!

Much love!

 

[ChristisGod]

Based on what I've seen in this thread, I'm not too interested, sorry.

Much love!

Until you get the nature of God correct there is no need to discuss the nature of Jesus. So first we must come to common ground with the Godhead, the Trinity and the nature and Attributes of God.

This is from Christianity.com

All Christians believe the doctrine of the Trinity. If you do not believe this—that is, if you have come to a settled conclusion that the doctrine of the Trinity is not true—you are not a Christian at all. You are in fact a heretic. Those words may sound harsh, but they represent the judgment of the Christian church across the centuries. What is the Trinity? Christians in every land unite in proclaiming that our God eternally exists as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Those who deny that truth place themselves outside the pale of Christian orthodoxy.

We believe in one living and true God who is the Creator of heaven and earth; who is eternal, almighty, unchangeable, infinitely powerful, wise, just and holy.

We believe that the one God eternally exists in three Persons: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit; and that these three are one God, co-equal and co-eternal, having precisely the same nature and attributes, and worthy of precisely the same worship, confidence, and obedience. Matthew 3:16, 17; Matthew 28:19, 20; Mark 12:29; John 1:14; Acts 5:3, 4; II Corinthians 13:14.

This doctrine unites all true Christians and separates us from those who are not Christian. You may believe and still not be a Christian, but if you deny this doctrine in your heart, you are not a Christian at all.

Nicene creed ends like this :

But those who say: 'There was a time when he was not;' and 'He was not before he was made;' and 'He was made out of nothing,' or 'He is of another substance' or 'essence,' or 'The Son of God is created,' or 'changeable,' or 'alterable'—they are condemned by the holy catholic and apostolic Church.

Athanasian Creed ends like this:

This is the catholic faith:
one cannot be saved without believing it firmly and faithfully.


Do you agree with the above ?

Why or why not ?

hope this helps !!!

 

[Ziggy]

Blaspheming against God, I'm not sure what you are seeing here. Do you mean, what he blaspheming the Father? OR the Son? OR the Spirit?

I mention the passages to show that Jesus cast out devils by the Holy Spirit, rather than by Himself.

Much love!

What I saw was the blaspheming of the NAME of the LORD.
If someone were to blasheme lets say Baal.. the penalty was they would bear the guilt of the son.
I believe that left space for them to offer a guilt sacrifice, let's say. Because there are no gods but God.
However, when one Blasphemes the NAME of the LORD, then they have the same death penalty as the son.
I believe there is something in the NAME...
and we are back at kenoo...

Phl 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
Phl 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
Phl 2:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
Phl 2:8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
Phl 2:9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
Phl 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
Phl 2:11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

And you are not disputing that Jesus is the Lord, fully God, fully Man.. right?

My question is.. This name God gave him in verse 9, is this the same name in Lev 24?

Lev 24:16 And he that blasphemeth the name of the LORD, he shall surely be put to death, and all the congregation shall certainly stone him: as well the stranger, as he that is born in the land, when he blasphemeth the name of the LORD, shall be put to death.

Hugs.
Thank You

 

[ChristisGod]

And yet the Son did not know when He would be returning.

And no one but Jesus knows this below so much for the father and holy spirit being all knowing-0mniscient mark..............

Rev 19:12
He had a name written that no one knew except Himself.

 

[Ziggy]

Until you get the nature of God correct there is no need to discuss the nature of Jesus. So first we must come to common ground with the Godhead, the Trinity and the nature and Attributes of God.

This is from Christianity.com

All Christians believe the doctrine of the Trinity. If you do not believe this—that is, if you have come to a settled conclusion that the doctrine of the Trinity is not true—you are not a Christian at all. You are in fact a heretic. Those words may sound harsh, but they represent the judgment of the Christian church across the centuries. What is the Trinity? Christians in every land unite in proclaiming that our God eternally exists as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Those who deny that truth place themselves outside the pale of Christian orthodoxy.

We believe in one living and true God who is the Creator of heaven and earth; who is eternal, almighty, unchangeable, infinitely powerful, wise, just and holy.

We believe that the one God eternally exists in three Persons: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit; and that these three are one God, co-equal and co-eternal, having precisely the same nature and attributes, and worthy of precisely the same worship, confidence, and obedience. Matthew 3:16, 17; Matthew 28:19, 20; Mark 12:29; John 1:14; Acts 5:3, 4; II Corinthians 13:14.

This doctrine unites all true Christians and separates us from those who are not Christian. You may believe and still not be a Christian, but if you deny this doctrine in your heart, you are not a Christian at all.

Do you agree with the above ?

Why or why not ?

hope this helps !!!

NO
Because no man on earth or establishment is authorized to determine if I am a christian based on any doctrine.
The Authority comes from God and God alone.
And if God wants to call me a heretic or a christians.. that is entirely up to God, not man.
Thank You.
HUGS

 

[ChristisGod]

NO
Because no man on earth or establishment is authorized to determine if I am a christian based on any doctrine.
The Authority comes from God and God alone.
And if God wants to call me a heretic or a christians.. that is entirely up to God, not man.
Thank You.
HUGS

Thanks for your response. I'm waiting to hear from marks to answer one of my questions for a change.

 

[marks]

And you are not disputing that Jesus is the Lord, fully God, fully Man.. right?

My question is.. This name God gave him in verse 9, is this the same name in Lev 24?

I see what you are saying, I think! No, I don't dispute for a moment that Jesus is Lord, fully God and fully man. And I think that Jesus is LORD, YHWH.

Much love!

 

[BarneyFife]

they represent the judgment of the Christian church across the centuries.

What was it you were saying earlier about "the masses?"

 

[ChristisGod]

What was it you were saying earlier about "the masses?"

Masses of believers since the early church in the N.T. have upheld the One True God as the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.

So you are against the Creeds ?

Nicene creed ends like this :

But those who say: 'There was a time when he was not;' and 'He was not before he was made;' and 'He was made out of nothing,' or 'He is of another substance' or 'essence,' or 'The Son of God is created,' or 'changeable,' or 'alterable'—they are condemned by the holy catholic and apostolic Church.

Athanasian Creed ends like this:

This is the catholic faith:
one cannot be saved without believing it firmly and faithfully.

Any other questions ?

 

[justbyfaith]

And no one but Jesus knows this below so much for the father and holy spirit being all knowing-0mniscient mark

And that is a problem that you run across when you don't believe that Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are absolutely one in Spirit, Lordship, and Godhood (1 Corinthians 12:4-6, Ephesians 4:4-6).

 

[BarneyFife]

I'm waiting to hear from marks to answer one of my questions for a change.

Ad Hominem according to the definition you posted earlier.

 

[ChristisGod]

And that is a problem that you run across when you don't believe that Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are absolutely one in Spirit.

Agree 100 %

The Godheads Oneness is indivisible and They share all the same attributes that make God, God.

God is said to be Immutable for a good reason.

 

[BarneyFife]

Masses of believers since the early church in the N.T. have upheld the One True God as the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.

So you are against the Creeds ?

Nicene creed ends like this :

But those who say: 'There was a time when he was not;' and 'He was not before he was made;' and 'He was made out of nothing,' or 'He is of another substance' or 'essence,' or 'The Son of God is created,' or 'changeable,' or 'alterable'—they are condemned by the holy catholic and apostolic Church.

Athanasian Creed ends like this:

This is the catholic faith:
one cannot be saved without believing it firmly and faithfully.

Any other questions ?

Creeds don't interest me in the slightest. I'll take a "Thus saith the LORD" over a creed any day.

 

[marks]

And no one but Jesus knows this below so much for the father and holy spirit being all knowing-0mniscient mark..............

Rev 19:12
He had a name written that no one knew except Himself.

Back to playing games?

Don't forget . . .

Revelation 2:17
He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.

Except instead of saying "no man", it's literally no one, If you read like you propose, Not Even Jesus knows the name He gives to the overcomer.

You can't just pluck a verse out, twist into something it's not in an attempt to ridicule something you can't answer. That's no good.

When all things are put under Jesus' feet, the apostle writes, it is evident that He Who subjected everything to Jesus is Himself excepted. And it is evident to me that when Jesus gives a new name that no one knows, He Himself is excepted.

And God in His fullness evidently knows the Name written in Jesus' thigh.

And just the same, Jesus emptied Himself, and when it came up, He revealed that He did not actually retain all knowledge.

Much love!

 

[ChristisGod]

Creeds don't interest me in the slightest. I'll take a "Thus saith the LORD" over a creed any day.

Same here I take Scripture over everything but I do not discard the truths in them.

 

[BarneyFife]

Agree 100 %

The Godheads Oneness is indivisible and They share all the same attributes that make God, God.

God is said to be Immutable for a good reason.

So becoming a man changed nothing?