tim_from_pa said:
You're wrong. Your verses are warning against excess and drunkenness. Likewise the bible warns against gluttony but that does not mean all food is forbidden. You never heard of Passover? And wine is declared Kosher. Jesus drank wine and that is why they accused him of being a winebibber. Again, the OT dietary laws allow for wine. If you really want to go by dietary laws, then I hope you stay away from pork, shellfish and other meats deemed unclean. Yet, if many Christians eat that, and say there is no law against that, then how can anyone declare alcohol be considered off limits if it was allowed?
First, they accused Jesus of being a winebibber because they were
liars, much like their accusations that He hated their laws, and broke the Sabbath, etc. They were accusations, they had no foundation. They were strawmen's arguements.
The verses I presented does not only refer to excess. I showed you an example using the same language. Is it okay for a Christian to riot, just not in excess? That's a silly thought, isn't it. Apply the same reasoning.
Jesus drank wine, that being
grape juice. That is part of discening which I talked about. Also, You aren't going to tell someone with stomach problems to drink alcohol. That's absolutely stupid, it's a poison. However,
grape juice is helpful to the belly.
Whosoever is deceived about wine, and strong drink
is not wise. That cannot be controverted. Daniel showed, how drinking wine was defilement as well.
First, I am glad you realize a contradiction in their words. Second, I do not eat unclean meats. The OT dietary laws were founded before the old covenant, when Noah was permitted to eat animals after the flood. Those dietary laws still hold today.
Isaiah 66:15-17 For, behold, the LORD will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire. For by fire and by his sword will the LORD plead with all flesh: and the slain of the LORD shall be many. They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one tree in the midst, eating swine’s flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the LORD.
The Lord has said He shall consume those eating swines flesh (unclean food), the abomination (unclean foods), and the mouse (unclean food) together. This speaks of the great day of the Lord. Now explain this:
Revelation 18:2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.
If the animals are in fact all cleansed, why are they still being declared unclean in Revelation? Why is the Prophet Isaiah looking into the future and saying Jesus will destroy those eating unclean foods? The verses used to say we may eat whatever we like are commonly taken out of context. I urge you to pay attention to the subject matter.
Mark 7:2 And when they saw some of his disciples eat bread with defiled, that is to say, with unwashen, hands, they found fault.
Mark 7:5 Then the Pharisees and scribes asked him, Why walk not thy disciples according to the tradition of the elders, but eat bread with unwashen hands?
What is the accusation? Unclean hands, having dirty hands and eating. Has it to do with their food? Not at all.
Mark 7:18-20 And he saith unto them, Are ye so without understanding also? Do ye not perceive, that whatsoever thing from without entereth into the man, it cannot defile him; Because it entereth not into his heart, but into the belly, and goeth out into the draught, purging all meats? And he said, That which cometh out of the man, that defileth the man.
This same thing is said by Jesus again in Matthew. Look closely at what Jesus says. Is He referring to the food, or to unclean hands?
Matthew 15:17-20 Do not ye yet understand, that whatsoever entereth in at the mouth goeth into the belly, and is cast out into the draught? But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man. For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies: These are the things which defile a man: but to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man.
The subject matter has nothing to do with eating unclean foods. It is refering to the hands. To saythis means food, is to take it
completely out of context.
Now Peter's Vision:
Acts 10:13-16 And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat. But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean. And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common. This was done thrice: and the vessel was received up again into heaven.
Why was this done three times?
Acts 10:19 While Peter thought on the vision, the Spirit said unto him, Behold, three men seek thee.
Because three men were seeking Peter. Has this anything to do with the food? No. It has to do with men, which the Jews always considered unclean. Peter confirms this when he says:
Acts 10:28 And he said unto them, Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean.
Once again, men, and not the food. One last part.
1 Timothy 4:4-5 For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving: For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.
What creatures of God are good? Those that are received with Thanksgiving. And only IF they are, are they good. It then shows it must have two qualitites to bereceived in thanksgiving:
1) The Word of God okays it
2) Prayer
You need both of those qualities. For example, if God made apples an oranges, but only declared it okay for you to eat the orange, are you really goin to sy, "Thank you for this apple!" And disobey and eat it? How can that be received with thanksgiving? He didn't give it to you in the first place. That's disobediance. Likewise, the same with meats. How can you eat pork, if He didn't say you could eat it in the first place.
So please, pay attention to the subject matter
If you have any other verses, you may present them. But, I would like for you to look upon the sections first, and find what the subject matter is. Must stay within context. Hope this helps!
Inmate said:
Jesus himself said Nothing that enters a man can defile him. He said something about it being released from the body or something Forgive me I think its in matthew.
Can we "Pee" Beer out of our systems? Sure. Just dont get drunk
View the post I made to Tim, which is in this post, just above.
