Last days are here today! Are you ready to meet Jesus in the clouds??

[Randy Kluth]

John 14.3; 1 Thessalonians 4.16-18. 1 Corinthians 11.26.

Although your interpretation might be different, it's hard to say that ppl are making it up.

I didn't say people are making up the Pretrib Rapture. I said "on Rapture day" was added to something said earlier. Post #309.

The Scriptures above do not mention a *Pretrib* Rapture. Not even a little bit.

 

[Randy Kluth]

That is not what Jesus said. "There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down." Can we look around and see the Temple?

Have we seem the abomination of desolation showing up yet in the holy place?

In my view, the AoD was an historically fulfilled prophecy. It was fulfilled when the Roman Army surrounded Jerusalem in 66-70 AD, standing in the holy place. The holy place was the environs of Jerusalem, because they stood making siege against the temple of God.

 

[farouk]

I didn't say people are making up the Pretrib Rapture. I said "on Rapture day" was added to something said earlier. Post #309.

The Scriptures above do not mention a *Pretrib* Rapture. Not even a little bit.

If one bears in mind the difference between Jews, Gentiles and the church of God, then the truth of what the Lord's coming means is indeed relevant in particular ways, to those passages.

 

[Giuliano]

In my view, the AoD was an historically fulfilled prophecy. It was fulfilled when the Roman Army surrounded Jerusalem in 66-70 AD, standing in the holy place. The holy place was the environs of Jerusalem, because they stood making siege against the temple of God.

I rather think so myself. After all, Titus, who led the destruction of Jerusalem, was also the tenth Roman Emperor. That seems to fit with Daniel's prophecy quite nicely.

 

[GISMYS_7]

I rather think so myself. After all, Titus, who led the destruction of Jerusalem, was also the tenth Roman Emperor. That seems to fit with Daniel's prophecy quite nicely.

If prophecy was fulfilled when the Roman Army surrounded Jerusalem in 66-70 Jesus would be ruling today.

 

[Giuliano]

If prophecy was fulfilled when the Roman Army surrounded Jerusalem in 66-70 Jesus would be ruling today.

Jesus is ruling today. Many, many dark spiritual forces got defeated too in the forty years between Jesus' crucixion and the fall of Jerusalem. Some dark forces do remain, but most were defeated then.

Here is the problem: You think everything is describing physical events. You think "clouds" must mean physical clouds. You think the kingdom of God "cometh by observation."

Luke 17:20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:

 

[GISMYS_7]

Get real!! When Jesus rules the earth there will be no more evil here!

 

[Timtofly]

I didn't say people are making up the Pretrib Rapture. I said "on Rapture day" was added to something said earlier. Post #309.

The Scriptures above do not mention a *Pretrib* Rapture. Not even a little bit.

When are you going to post any verses from Revelation that claim an antichrist comes before chapter 6?

 

[Giuliano]

Get real!! When Jesus rules the earth there will be no more evil here!

John 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

 

[Randy Kluth]

When are you going to post any verses from Revelation that claim an antichrist comes before chapter 6?

Why should I have to do that? I don't believe there is such a thing!

 

[GISMYS_7]

John 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

Yes! Jesus has a "spiritual" kingdom on earth with believers but very soon Jesus will return to earth and set up a very physical kingdom and rule the earth from Jerusalem as King of Kings and Lord of Lords!

 

[Giuliano]

Yes! Jesus has a "spiritual" kingdom on earth with believers but very soon Jesus will return to earth and set up a very physical kingdom and rule the earth from Jerusalem as King of Kings and Lord of Lords!

I wouldn't put it that way. Evil is finally and completely defeated after the Millennium.

Revelation 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

Jesus kingdom is not of "this" world. The world he will rule is a "new" world.

Revelation 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

That by the way is not talking about physical oceans. It's talking about the "sea" Jonah found himself in when he said he was in hell. That's also the same "sea" the beast of the water emerges from.

 

[Timtofly]

Sounds like you got it all worked out? I don't personally wish to base my predictions on a denial of the Antichrist. The theology of Antichrist began with Dan 7 and the Little Horn, who "boasts" before God. He opposes everything that is of God, except himself. When he is broken the Kingdom of God can come. The Son of Man will come from the court of heaven to judge him. Therefore, the Apostle John called him the "Antichrist."

You do not believe in an Antichrist. You claim the Apostle John calls him the Antichrist. You refuse to give a verse.

Why should I have to do that? I don't believe there is such a thing!

And I am accused of just making things up?

 

[Taken]

Thank you "Taken" for a sincere and rationally explained answer. If I was committed to these truths, as you are, I would still be Pretrib. But I'm not.

Ok, fair enough.

I repeat: there is zero explicit teaching that the Church will be caught up to heaven before the Reign of Antichrist--none! None of the truths you cite meet this standard, and I could prove it. It is true that Christians will not suffer the Wrath of the Lamb. Granted. But this is *not* the same thing as saying the Church will not be here suffering during the time of God's wrath against the world.

I'm curious to understand your view.
What is the point for Christ's Church to BE on Earth:
During the Wrath of the Lamb?

Thanks,
Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Bobby Jo]

... He could return tomorrow, next week, next month, next year ...

My wife OFTEN reminds me how precious life is, and that Jesus could return for me AT ANY MOMENT, -- if I don't knock it off.

But if I STOP doing what I was doing, -- Jesus won't return for me for another year and a half, -- with Scripture providing that timing down to the month for me, and if one were more knowledgeable, -- down to the week.

But if you like surprises, then please feel free to join the world and be SURPRISED!
Bobby Jo

 

[Timtofly]

My wife OFTEN reminds me how precious life is, and that Jesus could return for me AT ANY MOMENT, -- if I don't knock it off.

But if I STOP doing what I was doing, -- Jesus won't return for me for another year and a half, -- with Scripture providing that timing down to the month for me, and if one were more knowledgeable, -- down to the week.

But if you like surprises, then please feel free to join the world and be SURPRISED!
Bobby Jo

You sound like a Jew.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Ok, fair enough.



I'm curious to understand your view.
What is the point for Christ's Church to BE on Earth:
During the Wrath of the Lamb?

Thanks,
Glory to God,
Taken

God does nothing without telling His servants the prophets. God doesn't view the so-called "Tribulation Period" as "the Wrath of God." The real "Wrath of God" happens at Christ's return, when he destroys the forces of the Antichrist.

Yes, there are acts of divine wrath in the time of Antichrist's reign, and also in our own time. God's wrath is everywhere evident in all generations, because God's justice cannot long endure evil. When wickedness rises to a certain level, judgment falls. And that's been happening all through history.

God's wrath fell on Jerusalem in 70 AD, and yet Jesus' disciples, as Jews, had to suffer along with their fellow Jews, in a great dispersion. The disciples of Jesus were given to avoid the Roman siege of Jerusalem, but they could not avoid the atrocious condition of the Jews after the Romans came and destroyed their main city and their worship center.

Not only so but Jewish believers suffered both the anger of unbelieving Jews in Judaism and the hate of pagans among the nations. Christians have always had tough times.

None of this should be construed as Christians suffering divine wrath simply because they live in times in which God's wrath is shown against the nations. We are here to witness to the way out, to the possibility of redemption, to the faith that can deliver them.

In these lasts days we see the historic civilization that once encompassed Christianity, European Civilization, falling into apostasy, with the resultant loss of divine blessing. Europe has now been through 2 world wars, and another one may not be too far off.

But in the midst of this collapse of Christian culture, the Church, though reduced in numbers, remains a beacon of hope, and spiritual revivals continue. And I think it will be this way all the way to the end. We are called to be prophets and witnesses. If the Church is gone, there is no more reason for world history to continue. We are the purpose for world history!

 

[GISMYS_7]

The church will be raptured (caught up) before the great tribulation= PTL. Pray that you b counted worthy to escape we believers are not appointed to God's wrath.

 

[Timtofly]

God does nothing without telling His servants the prophets. God doesn't view the so-called "Tribulation Period" as "the Wrath of God." The real "Wrath of God" happens at Christ's return, when he destroys the forces of the Antichrist.

Yes, there are acts of divine wrath in the time of Antichrist's reign, and also in our own time. God's wrath is everywhere evident in all generations, because God's justice cannot long endure evil. When wickedness rises to a certain level, judgment falls. And that's been happening all through history.

God's wrath fell on Jerusalem in 70 AD, and yet Jesus' disciples, as Jews, had to suffer along with their fellow Jews, in a great dispersion. The disciples of Jesus were given to avoid the Roman siege of Jerusalem, but they could not avoid the atrocious condition of the Jews after the Romans came and destroyed their main city and their worship center.

Not only so but Jewish believers suffered both the anger of unbelieving Jews in Judaism and the hate of pagans among the nations. Christians have always had tough times.

None of this should be construed as Christians suffering divine wrath simply because they live in times in which God's wrath is shown against the nations. We are here to witness to the way out, to the possibility of redemption, to the faith that can deliver them.

In these lasts days we see the historic civilization that once encompassed Christianity, European Civilization, falling into apostasy, with the resultant loss of divine blessing. Europe has now been through 2 world wars, and another one may not be too far off.

But in the midst of this collapse of Christian culture, the Church, though reduced in numbers, remains a beacon of hope, and spiritual revivals continue. And I think it will be this way all the way to the end. We are called to be prophets and witnesses. If the Church is gone, there is no more reason for world history to continue. We are the purpose for world history!

Only the last 2000 years. How can Christians be the reason for the 4000 years before Christ? The tribulation was not for the church. It was Jacob's trouble. The church did become apostate, so God will put the church through more judgment besides this covid19.

Saying the church is needed in God's wrath upon the Jews and the Nations. Is about as foolish as Moses telling God to take his name out of the Lamb's book of life, if God would just not punish and kill the Jews. Moses can not be removed from the Lamb's book of life. The church MUST be removed from Jacob's troubles. They are only Jacob's to process, not the church's.

Of course all those not in the church, who have not accepted the Atonement, but think that works places them into the church, will go through pain and suffering. If they keep rejecting the Atonement each time a rapture happens, then their only option will be to take the cursed mark of Adam, or have their head chopped off. After the two witnesses die, having one's head chopped off will not save one. That last fury of the Lamb and the two sickles, is it. That is the last battle of Armageddon in Megiddo. Some call it the valley of Jezreel.

 

[Bobby Jo]

The church will be raptured (caught up) before the great tribulation ...

Oops, too late. -- You need a DeLorean, or you need the TRUTH. But DeLorean's are hard to come by, and you refuse the TRUTH.


So it looks like you're "hosed".
Bobby Jo