Law Liquidated

[liafailrock]

Hi LFR - The doing of God's will is and has always been encouraged by God to man, starting with the Jews, and this even before the Mosaic Law. This Law was only temporary and is why it has been "taken away" (Heb 7:18, 19; 8:7; 10:9).

The reason for it was not to save but to show the need for it, and is why no man could keep it in the way required, as James 2:10 shows it wasn't intended for man to keep it but rather reveal he can't, thus showing the need for Christ.

There is some misunderstanding here. The taking away of the first and then a new covenant is a means of salvation i.e. keeping the Law for salvation (flesh power) vs faith in Christ's finished work (power of the Spirit). I was talking about the standards of the Law as defining what is right and just-- apples and oranges. The first covenant does indeed prove that man cannot keep it and the new covenant shows he is empowered to keep it. But this change of order idea confuses people into thinking that the old standards are done away with and new laws are introduced. That's not true. If it is true, then maybe someone here has a nice-looking wife I'd like to break the old 7th commandment because we "are not under the law". Rather, we are saved to do good works, and the good works are in alignment with the old Law. The old Law is our schoolmaster. Upon seeing we can't keep it, it brings us to Christ

In addition, keep in mind that some of this Law being discussed are ceremonial in nature which foreshadowed Christ. So that schoolmaster that brings us to Christ is another way of saying the ceremonies foreshadowed Christ, thus the next logical step is to see Christ in them. They are a prerequisite.

The reason I caution everyone here about the old Law is that it's part of the Bible, which is every bit inspired and relevant today as back then. If we "do away" with any part of that Law, then we are effectively truncating part of the bible and saying that it's no longer inspired nor required.

 

[Netchaplain]

There is some misunderstanding here. The taking away of the first and then a new covenant is a means of salvation i.e. keeping the Law for salvation (flesh power) vs faith in Christ's finished work (power of the Spirit). I was talking about the standards of the Law as defining what is right and just-- apples and oranges. The first covenant does indeed prove that man cannot keep it and the new covenant shows he is empowered to keep it.

In my understanding, the New Covenant still finds the believer unable to keep God's will perfectly, because of the still indwelling sin nature (old man). The difference is that there is no longer the desire (Phil 2:13) to live after the sin nature, which will lesson the outward workings of sin more as we mature, but will not eliminate sinning altogether.

God showed that those who were under the Law were "under" its curse (Gal 3:10). It was a curse to the Jews because it revealed the good that man could not do!

 

[Helen]

The reason I caution everyone here about the old Law is that it's part of the Bible, which is every bit inspired and relevant today as back then. If we "do away" with any part of that Law, then we are effectively truncating part of the bible and saying that it's no longer inspired nor required.

Someone else said something similar to that. Jesus came to fulfil the law. ( on my iPad so can't grab the scripture. ) If He did what it is said that He did...He did just that. I agree He did not " do away" with it....it was " that which separated us and was written against us...was nailed to the tree." Again, can't pull chapter and verse. Paul said it.
As I see it and believe it, Jesus swallowed up the old law , it is still there...within Him..."we are complete in Him" ..we fulfil the Law in Christ.
I believe "it is done" and it will never be resurrected and held against any man.
Love God, love Neighbour...is the only law that stands today. And should be front and centre in our life.
Bless you...

 

[Netchaplain]

I thought God does not change, did His standard for righteousness change?

No, it always required faith in God, and now faith in Christ. The OT was meant to get them to confess their unrighteousness, and the NT is to get us to confess it too. The lesson has always been learning to be God-dependent for salvation instead of being self-dependent for it. It was the most insecure feeling I had in the past, to put it all on Him and none on me, which is an ongoing lesson in all things once it's learned.

 

[Netchaplain]

Were always quoting other mens books. Its like Gods book is not enough.

Hi Sword - The reason for posting these materials (for the last 15 years) is because they are mostly out of print (written circa 1700's-1800') and I believe they have significant teachings within the spiritual growth category.

Blessings!

 

[Wild Olive]

No, it always required faith in God, and now faith in Christ. The OT was meant to get them to confess their unrighteousness, and the NT is to get us to confess it too. The lesson has always been learning to be God-dependent for salvation instead of being self-dependent for it. It was the most insecure feeling I had in the past, to put it all on Him and none on me, which is an ongoing lesson in all things once it's learned.

Thank you for your response. Are we still have the ability to choose right from wrong? It's a battle everyday for me am I going to trust (follow) the world or Christ. I have to arm myself for the battle daily of spiritual warefare. We are not justified by the law(saved by the law). It is the blood of the perfect lamb that has freed us from the bondge of sin. It does not take away the fact that we still must be sevants to Christ and walk daily. We must be sanctified and in order to be sanctified we must learn God's word (the law). Which shows how wicked we are and brings us to the feet of Jesus where we repent (turn from sin to God). Thanks again for allowing me to share

 

[Netchaplain]

Are we still have the ability to choose right from wrong?

Amen, and those who are His will always desire to do His will over all things (Phil 2:13).

 

[Wild Olive]

Amen, and those who are His will always desire to do His will over all things (Phil 2:13).

Amen

 

[Helen]

Hi Sword - The reason for posting these materials (for the last 15 years) is because they are mostly out of print (written circa 1700's-1800') and I believe they have significant teachings within the spiritual growth category.

Blessings!

Amen...I love re-reading the words of the 'old generals', mos of them already gone to their reward. You have posted some that I had not read before. Love them Thank you! ✟

The 'old wine' gets better with age. I find very few in 'this day and age' who have the same level of depth of understanding and inner dealings that these men had.

 

[Netchaplain]

I find very few in 'this day and age' who have the same level of depth of understanding and inner dealings that these man had.

I agree, and appreciate your input!

 

[bbyrd009]

The law will judge those who who have rejected Jesus' offer of grace through His work on the cross.

"if you cannot even own up and admit your wrong to someone with whom you have broken the law, then you do not get grace, and you might even go to jail."

see, it doesn't have to be this religious ritual yack that churches have made it. Those who do right are the righteous in God's eyes; they might even consider themselves "atheists," so what. The worker in the vineyard will collect his wages, being worthy of them.

 

[H. Richard]

"if you cannot even own up and admit your wrong to someone with whom you have broken the law, then you do not get grace, and you might even go to jail."

see, it doesn't have to be this religious ritual yack that churches have made it. Those who do right are the righteous in God's eyes; they might even consider themselves "atheists," so what. The worker in the vineyard will collect his wages, being worthy of them.

***
Have you read the following?

Isa 53:6
6 All we like sheep have gone astray; We have turned, every one, to his own way; And the Lord has laid on Him the iniquity of us all.
NKJV iniquity = sins

Rom 3:25-26
25 whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed,
26 to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.
NKJV

Rom 5:8-10
8 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
9 Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him.
10 For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.
NKJV

Eph 1:6-7
6 to the praise of the glory of His grace, by which He made us accepted in the Beloved.
7 In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace
NKJV

Col 1:13-14
13 He has delivered us from the power of darkness and conveyed us into the kingdom of the Son of His love,
14 in whom we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins.
NKJV

Those who have become children of God through faith in His shed blood are not under the law. But I see you don't believe that.

 

[bbyrd009]

Those who have become children of God through faith in His shed blood are not under the law. But I see you don't believe that.

depends upon how you mean it. Break the law and see if you don't get hauled before a judge, and possibly go to jail.

 

[Truth]

I have just read through this page, concerning the LAW! The word Law in the KJV was translated from the word in Hebrew, TORAH, which means, Instructions and or Directions. there are 413 individual commandments in these Instructions, some were for children, some for women, some for men, and some for Levites, and some for the Kohan Priests. how do you keep these instructions? one at a time, depending on any given circumstance that you might encounter. Zachariah and Elizabeth, John the Baptist Parents, according to Luke 1 were blameless before the Law, and they were both of Aarons linage! being a Priest He, Zachariah had to keep more of the Law than the average Joe! When God Passed the Covenant on to Isaac, God said to Him, because Abraham kept MY statutes, My ordinances, and My Commandments, I will pass this to You! In the New Testament Paul writes, that the Scriptures are good for, correction, for doctrine, for reproof, instruction in righteousness. [not in the right order] but its there. Paul also writes to Timothy, and says! I know that you have known the Scriptures from your youth, which makes one wise unto Salvation. Jesus fulfilled the Spring Feasts, Temple services that the people observed in a form of worship year after year, which were commanded in Leviticus 23. and Jesus will fulfill the Fall Feasts in the future, called the Book of Revelation! So all has not been fulfilled yet, Heaven and Earth are still here. Search out the true translation of the words -- NEW TESTAMENT -- the same word used for the NEW moon, which is the same moon that God created in Greek means renewed moon, Testament should read as Covenant!!! Read about the Covenant made with Abraham when He divided the Animals that God told Him to, A Blood Covenant, only God walked through the Blood, Abraham was in a trance. God took responsibility for both sides of this Covenant, This is saying if I GOD break this deal may I GOD be like these animals, and if You Abraham or your descendants break this deal may I God be like these Animals. then you have the Blood Covenant at Mount Sinai, when the people made the Golden Calf, which instituted the Death Penalty that Jesus Paid for, there was no Sacrifice that took away the Death Penalty, only Sacrifice s for unintentional Sin, or a sin out of ignorance, willful sin you died for, Jesus Died for all Willful Sin, Past to this Present Day and on. He did not do away with the Instructions given by Moses they are as alive today as the day they were written. The Word Of God Is Established In Heaven, and in the Future it will be Written on our Hearts!

 

[Netchaplain]

I have just read through this page, concerning the LAW!

Hi Truth, and thanks for your input! The law I'm referring to is "commandment," as in the Greek--'entolē' (Genesis 1:1 (KJV)), i.e. the Lord's command to "love as He loves" (Jhn 13:34). This is different ("new commandment") from the command to "love your neighbor as yourself." Instead of "as yourself" it is "as I have loved you"!

 

[Truth]

Thank you so much for your reply. I agree that God's standards for rightousness was established before He spoke it to Israel during the Exodus. I do not believe it changed from the beginning. Sin is sin and rightousness is rightousness. Would not everything established include the words given at Sinai? I thought God does not change, did His standard for rightousness change? How can what He calls life in Dueteronomy 30:19 now bring death? Christ is all that is good, He is the word John 1. We must walk as He walked 1 John 2:6 and He walked in perfect obedience to the Father.

Genesis 26: 4-5 And I [GOD] will make your descendants multiply as the stars of Heaven; I will give to your descendants all these Lands; and in Your Seed all the Nations of the Earth shall be Blessed!!!! 5- "BECAUSE! Abraham OBEYED MY VOICE< and Kept MY Charge, MY Commandments, MY Statutes, and MY Laws. Abraham knew the Torah [Law] God was only dealing with One Man, this is where God passes on the Covenant to Isaac, Remember Abraham walked with God, Isaac and Jacob walked before God, and when the Nation came out of Egypt, there were many Peoples, both Israelites and Gentiles, a Mixed Multitude, Then God Gave the Law, with His own Voice from the Mount, I believe the Law is Eternal, from the Beginning to the End. Also Righteousness was attributed to Abraham because HE Believed GOD, not because He Kept the Law. Keeping the Law only brought on blessings. IF YOU LOVE ME KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS. Deuteronomy 5 : 29 - "OH, that they had such a Heart in them that they would fear Me and always keep all My Commandments, that it might be well with them and with their children Forever!!!!! Take the time to read Deuteronomy and realize what a traumatic experience it was for those that came out of Egypt, and you will find one of the Greatest prophecy's about our Savior. it is like this I God will raise up a Prophet from among their brethren Like Me [God] - also I will raise up a Prophet like You [Moses] from among their brethren!!!! look for it, God Made this Prophesy. He has a strong stand about this Prophesy!!!!!

 

[Wild Olive]

Genesis 26: 4-5 And I [GOD] will make your descendants multiply as the stars of Heaven; I will give to your descendants all these Lands; and in Your Seed all the Nations of the Earth shall be Blessed!!!! 5- "BECAUSE! Abraham OBEYED MY VOICE< and Kept MY Charge, MY Commandments, MY Statutes, and MY Laws. Abraham knew the Torah [Law] God was only dealing with One Man, this is where God passes on the Covenant to Isaac, Remember Abraham walked with God, Isaac and Jacob walked before God, and when the Nation came out of Egypt, there were many Peoples, both Israelites and Gentiles, a Mixed Multitude, Then God Gave the Law, with His own Voice from the Mount, I believe the Law is Eternal, from the Beginning to the End. Also Righteousness was attributed to Abraham because HE Believed GOD, not because He Kept the Law. Keeping the Law only brought on blessings. IF YOU LOVE ME KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS. Deuteronomy 5 : 29 - "OH, that they had such a Heart in them that they would fear Me and always keep all My Commandments, that it might be well with them and with their children Forever!!!!! Take the time to read Deuteronomy and realize what a traumatic experience it was for those that came out of Egypt, and you will find one of the Greatest prophecy's about our Savior. it is like this I God will raise up a Prophet from among their brethren Like Me [God] - also I will raise up a Prophet like You [Moses] from among their brethren!!!! look for it, God Made this Prophesy. He has a strong stand about this Prophesy!!!!!

If you follow the typology(prophecy) into Joshua Judges Ruth(my personal favorite) first and second Samuel, Solomon and into the split of the 2 branches caused at Bethel by Jaraboam. It's all prophacy. Thank you for your post would love to chat more it seams as if you are very versed in the Word Shalom brother!

 

[bbyrd009]

the old wine is better, they say

 

[Wild Olive]

the old wine is better, they say

And no one, having drunk old wine,immediately desires new; for he says, ‘The old is better.’”

 

[bbyrd009]

And no one, having drunk old wine,immediately desires new; for he says, ‘The old is better.’”

i'm wondering if it is the "he says" that should be emphasized there?