Law Religion vs Grace

[soul man]

The difference between law religion and grace is: law religion is always correcting your flesh.

Grace: gives life! and more abundantly. How does abundance work in a life of grace? You can grow in grace and knowledge of the life you have (Christ).

In law religion there is no room for growth. You either live religions ideas of pleasing God and keep the rules - bylaws - and be a partaker of it's truth as it is seen by religion - or you fail. Far cry from grace and knowledge!

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Far cry from grace and knowledge!

The interesting thing being grace causes a person to uphold the law.

So it's not so much a matter of obeying the law vs. walking in grace, but a matter of how you obey the law, either through the old way of the written word alone, or through the new way of the Spirit:

"...we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code." Romans 7:6

"Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Certainly not! Instead, we uphold the law." Romans 3:31​

 

[soul man]

The interesting thing being grace causes a person to uphold the law.

So it's not so much a matter of obeying the law vs. walking in grace, but a matter of how you obey the law, either through the old way of the written word alone, or through the new way of the Spirit:

"...we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code." Romans 7:6

"Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Certainly not! Instead, we uphold the law." Romans 3:31​

Yes, it is based on our position 'in Christ' as believers.

For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. - Romans 8:2.

That is the non-separated state that happens to a believer the moment they are born again. That is in spirit. It is an act of God to birth a believing sinner 'in Christ.' Religion has an outer work to correct the flesh of people to get what believers already have in Christ.

 

[marks]

The difference between law religion and grace is: law religion is always correcting your flesh.

Grace: gives life! and more abundantly. How does abundance work in a life of grace? You can grow in grace and knowledge of the life you have (Christ).

In law religion there is no room for growth. You either live religions ideas of pleasing God and keep the rules - bylaws - and be a partaker of it's truth as it is seen by religion - or you fail. Far cry from grace and knowledge!

Good insights!

Much love!

 

[marks]

The interesting thing being grace causes a person to uphold the law.

Absolutely! The new commandment, which is an old commandment, that we love others.

But if you mean the Mosaic Law, that's what @soul man is cautioning against, as, like he said, there is no upward growth in the Law, only that there will be parts which you cannot keep, and there will be parts that you will not keep, and parts that you may think you keep and don't, and some you actually might keep. And what will the score card read? He did not keep the Law.

Much love!

 

[marks]

The necessity of faith uphold the Law which says those who keep it shall live. No one can keep it, so you have to have faith. Faith upholds the Law.

If the Law were not valid, then the need for faith is moot. That faith is recognized as a legitimate need, this witnesses to the legitimacy of the Law.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Religion has an outer work to correct the flesh of people

And, I might add, without success. The Law can't make a person righteous, while Christ does just that.

Much love!

 

[Ferris Bueller]

But if you mean the Mosaic Law, that's what @soul man is cautioning against, as, like he said, there is no upward growth in the Law

There is no upward growth in relying on the law itself to grow you up into a righteous law abiding, obedient person. That is the point of contention regarding this matter of the law. It's not a matter of keeping the law vs. now not keeping the law. It's a matter of how you're going to 'keep' the law. ('Uphold' is actually a more accurate term.)

Relying on the law to be righteous is the "old way of the written code" that Paul is talking about in Romans 7:6—trying to make yourself a righteous, law abiding, obedient person through obeying the law. But the new way to become that is through the "new way of the Spirit". The way that does make you a righteous, obedient person who upholds the law in service to God:

"6But now, having died to what bound us (the flesh), we have been released from the law (that kept us bound to the flesh), so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code." Romans 7:6​

 

[marks]

There is no upward growth in relying on the law itself to grow you up into a righteous law abiding, obedient person. That is the point of contention regarding this matter of the law. It's not a matter of keeping the law vs. now not keeping the law. It's a matter of how you're going to 'keep' the law. ('Uphold' is actually a more accurate term.)

Relying on the law to be righteous is the "old way of the written code" that Paul is talking about in Romans 7:6—trying to make yourself a righteous, law abiding, obedient person through obeying the law. But the new way to become that is through the "new way of the Spirit". The way that does make you a righteous, obedient person who upholds the law in service to God:

"6But now, having died to what bound us (the flesh), we have been released from the law (that kept us bound to the flesh), so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code." Romans 7:6​

OK then, and now we're back to challenging your divisions of Law that you actually are supposed to obey and Law you can feel free to ignore. I certainly don't see it that way.

The Law is not the Christian's behavioral guide, Jesus is. The Law, being a covenant between God and Isreal, if force to fit as a behavioral guide to the Christian, will be impossible to do, confusing, misleading, and leaving each person trying to figure out which is which, and to find a way to justify not keeping the parts they don't.

It generally turns into allegorizing and metaphorizing, and then that becomes an acceptable way to view Scripture, and then everyone has all their own ideas, and no two can agree on anything. At least, that's how I've seen that all work out in the past.

However, if we leave behind the Law, and grow into Christ, none of that happens, we just grow into Christ.

Our walk is by faith and not sight, so what is of sight . . . That's not our walk.

Much love!

 

[marks]

only that there will be parts which you cannot keep, and there will be parts that you will not keep, and parts that you may think you keep and don't, and some you actually might keep. And what will the score card read? He did not keep the Law.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

OK then, and now we're back to challenging your divisions of Law that you actually are supposed to obey and Law you can feel free to ignore.

You show me which laws my theology ignores, and I will show you that it does not.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

The Law is not the Christian's behavioral guide, Jesus is.

1 John is a short letter. Read it tonight then get back to me.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

The Law...if force to fit as a behavioral guide to the Christian, will be impossible to do, confusing, misleading, and leaving each person trying to figure out which is which, and to find a way to justify not keeping the parts they don't.

It's only that because, frankly, the church has bungled up and misunderstood the matter of the law in this New Covenant. There is no confusion when you understand that faith in Christ upholds the whole law of Moses, not just parts of it. From there you simply examine which laws are left to obey after you recognize the ones that Christ kept for us one time for all time and don't require any further literal fulfillment.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

However, if we leave behind the Law, and grow into Christ, none of that happens, we just grow into Christ.

If that were true, that we just automatically grow up into Christ, there would not be the many lengthy passages of scripture telling us what to do and what not to do in the NT. I am actually amazed at how blind many Christians are to the many, long, detailed passages of NT scripture on how to live while they drill in and focus on a few verses of scripture about theology and make that the sum total of what it means to be a devout, believing Christian.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Our walk is by faith and not sight, so what is of sight . . . That's not our walk.

I don't think you know what it means to walk by faith.
Walking by faith means hearing the word of God and then stepping out and doing it even though it violates all natural experience and expectation. Like when Peter stepped out on the water when Jesus beckoned him, even though in our natural thinking we don't do things like that! Walking by faith is forgiving someone who does not deserve to be forgiven. Walking by faith is giving $100.00 to someone in need when you're concerned that you might not have a job next week. Walking by faith is not retaliating and instead trusting God to vindicate you. And so on......

 

[marks]

1 John is a short letter. Read it tonight then get back to me.

I read it quite frequently but tell me what you have in mind. The Apostle seems pretty clear on Trusting Jesus and Loving others.

And I will continue to maintain the Law is a unit, you don't get to subdivide it according to your preferences. I will continue to maintain the Law is not exhaustive, and leaves many things unanswered, and, of course, are you really planning to collect war brides?

I will continue to maintain that "law keeping", even though literally impossible on several levels, is to take the rules you see, and apply them to your behavior that you see, and that this is walking by sight. Walking by faith is being personally directed by Jesus.

Much love!

 

[marks]

I don't think you know what it means to walk by faith.

What gives you that idea?

Much love!

 

[marks]

Walking by faith means hearing the word of God and then stepping out and doing it even though it violates all natural experience and expectation. Like when Peter stepped out on the water when Jesus beckoned him, even though in our natural thinking we don't do things like that! Walking by faith is forgiving someone who does not deserve to be forgiven. Walking by faith is giving $100.00 to someone in need when you're concerned that you might not have a job next week. Walking by faith is not retaliating and instead trusting God to vindicate you. And so on......

This is like Faith 101.

Walking by faith is the feeling of confidence with everything in your life speaks against that. Not just doing, but being and doing.

You can give someone your last $100 out of obedience to His Word, the full assurance of faith is the confidence inside that this is perfectly fine, and you'll be just fine. Whether or not you ever see another $1.

Just knowing every day Jesus will lead me to what He wants me to do, and He will fill me with the ability and resource to do it. Knowing - confident - that everything is OK because He will never ever leave me.

Faith is not just not retaliating, but continuing to love.

Much love!

 

[marks]

I am actually amazed at how blind many Christians are to the many, long, detailed passages of NT scripture on how to live while they drill in and focus on a few verses of scripture about theology and make that the sum total of what it means to be a devout, believing Christian.

I'm amazed by many things, including how people can look at the descriptions of God's children, and what separates the from the unbelievers, and convert that into a their own version of a NT law.

As if, if you are a fornicator, that you can become acceptible to God by stopping being a fornicator. And how would you do that anyway? But then, that's what being reborn is for.

Much love!

 

[marks]

You show me which laws my theology ignores, and I will show you that it does not.

Yes, you will explain how you "keeping them" without actually doing them.

Do you have the mold on your walls checked by a Levite? Sores checked by Levites? I'm guessing not. Eating Kosher? That you can do, so that the other nations will know you are different.

Do you bring your firstborn to the temple? Go to Jerusalem 3 times a year for the feasts?

I'm guessing some of these you ignore, some you "keep", and some you modify so you can see yourself as "keeping" them.

Do you tithe to the Levites? Or do you give to someone else, telling yourself that it's the same thing?

Much love!