GEN2REV
Well-Known Member
Yes, looking into God, or the Bible, too much can lead to hell.
That warning is as old as the Catholic Church.
And looking too little can lead to this:
Hosea 4:6
Thanks for the warning.
LDS Christians believe 1 in God
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That warning is as old as the Catholic Church.
And looking too little can lead to this:
Hosea 4:6
Thanks for the warning.
Interesting. In all truth, I let God tell me who he is. I have read the bible a few times over from front to back and now study online. But I won't let peoples imaginations try to confuse me about who he is. People can study the bible and get a rough idea. But there are so many versions of God that I don't care to believe in. Again God can tell me who he is and no one else.
GEN2REV
Well-Known Member
And, ... where do I go if I wish to discuss?
Sure would be nice if you'd help people here learn where in scripture you found the evidence to convince you of your claim. I'd sure like to know as much as you do about God. Not sharing your knowledge is not very Christian-like.
"This is what I believe about God and Christianity and I don't care to discuss it with anybody." is not very productive.
Why did you even start a thread then? Because you wanted to encourage others to believe what you believe but not to discuss it?
"Believe that God is THREE persons, but don't ask any questions about it! Especially if it's confusing."
GEN2REV
Well-Known Member
God tells us exactly who He is through scripture, my friend; so that there's no mistaking.
He foresaw these types of disagreements and manifested a book with all His opinions, His nature, His Truths and Commandments and all the history that was needed to prove all of it so that people couldn't sit around saying "I believe God is such and such, but I know more about it than most." He wrote the Book as THE authority with which to test all claims so that if they didn't align with His Word, they were clearly false.
Your opinion, like so many today, is that scripture is secondary to your personal, and private, revelations from God. 2 Peter 1:20
Please.
GEN2REV
Well-Known Member
Again: if you want to debate, then you can go start a thread in the debate section. I have requested very politely you not do so here. If you keep trying to derail my thread I’ll have report you.
GEN2REV
Well-Known Member
Report me all you like, I haven't broken a single rule.
Just because you started the thread doesn't mean you can make people leave the thread. I am discussing the topic you started in your thread with others. Deal with it. That's how this works.
GEN2REV
Well-Known Member
If you've studied this concept for yourself, why is it such an imposition for me to ask you to simply show me using scripture how you've come to this conclusion?
You also claim you want a dialogue. Why do you refuse to dialogue with somebody who's simply asked where in scripture you came to this information?
There is a very thin line between discussion and debate and, if I am honest I don’t actually think it is wrong to ask questions in either case. The only concern I have is what is the motive for asking the question. Debates tend to be more like arguments at times, discussions tend to be because people are interested enough to discuss something.
In any discussion a person is not under any obligation to give an answer to a question, Jane is merely explaining what she believes and why, perhaps the issue is more about demanding an answer. She is not on trial and she has already explained the reason behind the thread.
Rita
In any discussion a person is not under any obligation to give an answer to a question, Jane is merely explaining what she believes and why, perhaps the issue is more about demanding an answer. She is not on trial and she has already explained the reason behind the thread.
Rita
Thank you @Rita.
The difference between discussion and debate is indeed the motivation. Discussion is motivated by “I want to listen and better understand your view”. Versus debate is “I want to inform you why I’m right” and has no interest in listening.
@GEN2REV has openly stated that they have done thorough scripture study and they have concluded no scripture shows Father, Son, Spirit being three different persons. I have likewise thoroughly studied scripture and reached the opposite conclusion. We’ve both heard the other stance a million times.
I acknowledge @GEN2REV ‘s beliefs. I’m not going to disrespect them by trying to force my beliefs down thier throat (aka “debate”), nor disrespect scripture by treating it as ammunition is such an endeavor. And I insist the same respect be given to me.
Hence my refusal to debate, and restating the fellowship purpose of this thread.
If anyone else wants to debate, it is extremely easy to start a new thread.
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Jane, I was under the impression that the first vision had two personages. The Father and the Son. Where do you get the idea that the Holy Spirit is a separate personage?
The fact that they are three different persons is thoroughly established in the Bible itself, let alone reaching beyond that. Example, Christ’s baptism is not an demonstration of vantiliqosm, but rather three different persons doing different things. Christ doesn’t prey to Himself during the Lord’s Prayer. In the Garden it’s the Son doing the Father’s will, not His own. Etc.
The Holy Spirit of God is all encompassing. It reaches everywhere. It took the form of a dove for a sign to the people and John that Jesus was the Messiah. I can't seem to draw the conclusion that the spirit is a separate personage. But OK.
I believe that God calls people to various places [include church groups or organizations among them] to accomplish particular tasks for Him there. If He really wants us to 'come out of her' because this particular "she" is not for us, will we being sincerely in love with Him not recognize His voice and obey? Some will insist that your place is wrong simple because they think it is wrong for them:
People will mostly say that "my church" is the best one or the right one... and perhaps for the speaker it is so, but seldom would it be so for everyone! God has different people working in different places in different ways to accomplish His purpose, His will!
John the Baptist and Jesus were not called to do the same work, but both had God's work to do:
"For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, He hath a devil.
The Son of man came eating and drinking, and they say, Behold a man gluttonous, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners. But wisdom is justified of her children." Matt 11:18-19
"For the body is not one member, but many.
If the foot shall say, Because I am not the hand, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?
And if the ear shall say, Because I am not the eye, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?
If the whole body were an eye, where were the hearing? If the whole were hearing, where were the smelling?
But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him." I Cor 12:14-18
GEN2REV
Well-Known Member
These are the kinds of claims that I question and ask for specific examples from scripture because that is not what I have found. It is not an opinion, or a personal position that may differ from others, it is a solid observation of scripture from over a decade of study; just saying - I have sought the Truth on these matters for a long time, that's all. If somebody has discovered something in scripture that I have somehow missed, I am always very interested, and open, to having them show me that.
You don't have to reply to this comment and you're welcome to place me on ignore.
These types of matters are not a 'you can believe what you like and I'll believe what I like' type of situation. They are extremely important concepts and actually do have a bearing on our salvation. These are discussions on the very nature of God Himself.
Most people that make similar claims about the Trinity do not even consider the spiritual aspect of the concept. The spirit realm is very difficult for us to understand and consider when striving to understand these things. God is a spirit. John 4:24 He is eternal. Therefore, if God, the Spirit, is Jesus - which Jesus makes many claims to the affirmative on that throughout the book of John and elsewhere - then we must understand the relationship of Jesus to the Father in a different way than we would normally from a physical 3-D human perspective.
To better understand, we must see that the Father exists outside of time and space, because He created time and space - He cannot exist within them. And if He sent His own Spirit into a physical body upon the physical earth, He would still exist outside of the physical realm, from prior to that physical existence upon the earth, throughout the duration thereof and until eternity thereafter.
So Jesus was not performing a ventriloquist act, He was praying (as an example to all that would follow Him) to the Source of all things, to God Almighty who generated His physical body.
Jesus makes this more clear in John 14:21-23.
First, in verse 21, Jesus states that those who love Him will be loved by the Father and Jesus and that Jesus will manifest Himself to them.
Next, in verse 22, Jesus is asked by a disciple how this is possible.
To clarify, in verse 23, Jesus says something fascinating. He restates what He's just said, but this time He says that if we love Him, His Father will love us and "we will come unto him and make our abode with him." - 'we' (they both) will come unto us and make 'their' (both of them) home with us; they both will come to live inside of us - that they (together) ARE the Holy Spirit.
Let that sink in a while.
No, we don't see three people. God's voice is heard from heaven, we see a spirit in the form of a dove and we have Jesus. That narrows it down to 2 individuals. Yet, in light of the above verses from John, we are mandated to consider this verse differently. If a verse exists that provides contrary information, we must consider that data against all other verses from scripture. Scripture does not contradict itself, and it always defines and explains its meaning.
And with the verses above from John, one cannot take that position honestly if they're considering all of scripture as a whole.
God bless.
Today's thought--
Joseph Smith is not my Savior. Jesus Christ, the only Begotten Son of God, is my Savior. I am a Christian: a disciple of Christ. I follow Him due to testimony of Him.
It is incorrect to say "Mormons follow Joseph Smith". Joseph Smith was a sinner, in desperate need of Christ (just like the rest of us). He had his many flaws. In fact, in one of the texts LDS Christians regard as scripture, "Doctrine & Convents", Joseph Smith is routinely chewed out by God for his sinful ways.
Now all that being said, almighty God can work wonders with very flawed tools. I do believe that Joseph Smith was one of God's prophets. That does NOT imply perfection. All prophets are sinners and imperfect-- the Bible itself testifies of this so clearly. For example I'm currently re-reading Genesis and Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and all are very flawed. But God is almighty, and works miracles through flawed tools.
Joseph Smith is not my Savior. Jesus Christ, the only Begotten Son of God, is my Savior. I am a Christian: a disciple of Christ. I follow Him due to testimony of Him.
It is incorrect to say "Mormons follow Joseph Smith". Joseph Smith was a sinner, in desperate need of Christ (just like the rest of us). He had his many flaws. In fact, in one of the texts LDS Christians regard as scripture, "Doctrine & Convents", Joseph Smith is routinely chewed out by God for his sinful ways.
Now all that being said, almighty God can work wonders with very flawed tools. I do believe that Joseph Smith was one of God's prophets. That does NOT imply perfection. All prophets are sinners and imperfect-- the Bible itself testifies of this so clearly. For example I'm currently re-reading Genesis and Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and all are very flawed. But God is almighty, and works miracles through flawed tools.
Yes Joseph Smith had received prophecy regarding the Words of Wisdom. I don't know how much of Joseph Smiths communion was with God and am skeptical. We know the words of wisdom are wise though thru modern medicine. In his first vision he was attacked by Satan:
(First Vision - Wikipedia) "According to the account Smith told in 1838, he went to the woods to pray about which church to join but fell into the grip of an evil power that nearly overcame him. At the last moment, he was rescued by two shining "Personages" (implied to be God the Father and Jesus) who hovered above him. One of the beings told Smith not to join any existing churches because all taught incorrect doctrines."
This is something I have also discovered in my own communications with God. Satan almost always follows communion with God as an attempt to steer someone away from what God has communicated. He often appears like God to deceive. But the messages are always deceptive.
Amen 100%!!!
Discernment is so CRITICAL. Keeping that steady communication and study with God is so critical.
Thought of the day--
I am grateful for God & the seasons of life. I recently got a new job & am excited for that season to start. And there have been many good things about this last season too, even though in the end it drove me crazy and forced me to leave. A season isn't supposed to last forever. God know this, and brings each season with good things & lessons for us, even those seasons that all bring bumps & bruises.
I am grateful for God & the seasons of life. I recently got a new job & am excited for that season to start. And there have been many good things about this last season too, even though in the end it drove me crazy and forced me to leave. A season isn't supposed to last forever. God know this, and brings each season with good things & lessons for us, even those seasons that all bring bumps & bruises.
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