LDS Christians believe 1 in God

[Jane_Doe22]

This thread is an offshoot of this thread: KJV Only...which one!

Here I'm going to explain how member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (nicknamed "Mormons") like myself believe in 1 God.

This is meant to be purely respectful & informative, explaining me explaining my/my denomination's beliefs. I do request: that if you're not interested in actually listening/dialogue, then please move on. Let's not waste your or my time. I'm not interested in being told "well you need to repent of all this stuff Walter Martian told me you believe you mindless cultist!!".





Anyway, on with it:


The Father, Son, and Spirit are 3 different persons. 1, 2, 3. For example, Christ isn't talking to Himself during the Lord's Prayer, He's praying the the Father. Both LDS Christians & Creedal Christians believe this.

These 3 persons are 1 God. Both LDS Christians & Creedal Christians believe this. We all are monotheist. It's impossible for a person to decide to honor the Father but not the Son- they are one. It's impossible to follow the Spirit but being going against the Father's will -- that doesn't even make sense. Versus in polytheism (Ancient Greek pantheon for example) you can follow Zues and go against Poseidon.

Scriptures: In addition to all of the Bible scriptures on this I'm sure we can both quote, here's some other verses LDS Christians believe to be scripture on the matter. Click on the links if you want to see context.

• That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, D&C 35:2.
• they are one God, Mosiah 15:4 (3 Ne. 11:36; D&C 20:28).

• arraigned before the bar of Christ … and God the Father, and the Holy Spirit, Alma 11:44.
• sing … unto the Father, and unto the Son, and unto the Holy Ghost, Morm. 7:7.
• grace of God the Father … Lord Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost, Ether 12:41.
• We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, A of F 1:1.

My personal favorite scripture on the oneness of God is the chapter of John 17, but that's long to quote here.

Now differences: LDS Christians believe the Father, Son, and Spirit are 1 God through a shared purpose, will, goodness, glory, mercy, justice, power, etc. Creedal Christians believe that too. But the Athanasian Creed adds to this by including how the Father/Son/Spirit are one through a shared substance, with later phrasing of things like being vs person. LDS Christians do not believe this. That's the difference.

Importance: this 3 persons in 1 is an important thing to understand when talking with LDS Christians. If "Bob" is talking to an LDS Christian incorrectly calls it "polytheism", then the message the LDS Christian hears is "Bob believes that Christ & the Father are the same person". Which is very incorrect (that's modulism/oneness). I spend LOTS of time working with LDS Christian whom have been (mistakenly) taught be Creedal Christians believe in modulism.[/QUOTE]

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Responding to @GRACE ambassador 's comment also from the other thread.

Precious friend:
I apologize, I thought it was a "Mormon website." I promise to do better.

It's alright, I understand it was an honest mistake. It's an example of why asking someone directly "what do you believe" is the best way to get answers.

Precious friend:
Depends, are they from The PRESERVED and COMPLETED Word Of God (KJB),
of Which I have quite a list of 500 Scriptures JESUS Is Almighty God, OR:

And I 100% agree with every single one! As I said earlier, John 17 is my personal favorite.

Are they Extra-BIBLICAL "scriptures" from other writings? ie:

"From latter-day revelation we learn that the Father and the Son have
tangible bodies of flesh and bone, and that the Holy Ghost is a personage
of spirit without flesh and bone (Doctrine and Covenants 130:22–23)"
You DO believe this (NON-distorted?) LDS document (scripture?), Correct?

Now, in light of this, I must say God, In HIS Word Of Truth "Warns us":

1) Never Add To or Take Away From God's Pure Words!
(Deuteronomy 4:2, 12:32; Proverbs 30:5-6; Revelation 22:18,19 KJB!)
+
2) 2Co_11:4 "For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have
not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or
another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him."

So, bearing with you for a moment, is not the "LDS Jesus" another Different
Jesus, with a father who has a body of "flesh and bones? Because The KJB
Clearly "Stated By our LORD And Saviour, JESUS CHRIST," About HIS
Father, Whom we worship:

Joh_4:24 "God is a Spirit: and they that worship
Him must worship Him in spirit and in Truth."

Confirmed By The LORD JESUS CHRIST Himself,
When, After HIS Bodily Resurrection, HE Said:

Luk_24:39 "Behold My Hands and My Feet, that It Is I Myself: handle
Me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see Me have."

So, Precious friend, WHY are you an LDS (Mormon), IF you don't
believe the "Doctrine and Covenants, Pearl of Great Price, etc."
"scriptures"(?) of your own religion?

God the Spirit is a personage of spirit. Both LDS and Creedal Christians believe this.

God the Son also has a spirit. That spirit dwelt in a mortal body during His 33 years of life, and now is dwells in a resurrected & glorified body. You yourself quoted great scriptures in that regard, thank you for beating me to the punch

The Bible does not specify as to the Father. Creedal Christians traditionally believe He's like the Spirit (just spirit, no body), whereas LDS Christians believe He's like the Father (spirit in a glorified body).

John 4:24 is Christ teaching us how we need to worship God with our spirits. It's not saying "God can't have a body" -- that would make no sense for Christ to say.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Another big point / common misconception about LDS Christian beliefs:
"Mormons believe they can becomes God!"

This is better phrased as "become one with God" or "becoming like God". There entire purpose of Christ's atonement is so that we can become one with God, again John 17. The old sinner dies away and (eventually) we fully become that perfected saint. Having the Father's/Son's will be be completely in leading our will, etc. We don't replace the Father/Son, rather join in God's majesty, joint-heirs with Christ.

 

[dev553344]

Another big point / common misconception about LDS Christian beliefs:
"Mormons believe they can becomes God!"

This is better phrased as "become one with God" or "becoming like God". There entire purpose of Christ's atonement is so that we can become one with God, again John 17. The old sinner dies away and (eventually) we fully become that perfected saint. Having the Father's/Son's will be be completely in leading our will, etc. We don't replace the Father/Son, rather join in God's majesty, joint-heirs with Christ.

Being a joint heir means being resurrected and forgiven and raised into heaven, washed clean. Let's not forget what the scriptures say about the heavenly life:

Matthew 22:30
“For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.”

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Being a joint heir means being resurrected and forgiven.

And also perfected, pure as snow, even as He is. Sharing all that He has/is. There's no end to the majesty & power of His gift & glory.

 

[dev553344]

And also perfected, pure as snow, even as He is. Sharing all that He has/is. There's no end to the majesty & power of His gift & glory.

I realized some of that and edited my post, you caught it before that.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

I realized some of that and edited my post, you caught it before that.

All good. I admittedly write a post, and then so often think "I could say that better, let me fix it--".

 

[dev553344]

All good. I admittedly write a post, and then so often think "I could say that better, let me fix it--".

I do the same thing. I differ somewhat from your ideas about heavenly existence. For instance I don't think God shares all that is and has. I believe we become his angels and get a dwelling place there. Angels aren't as powerful as God.

John 14:2-3

King James Version

2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

I do the same thing.

I differ somewhat from your ideas about heavenly existence. For instance I don't think God shares all that is and has. I believe we become his angels and get a dwelling place there. Angels aren't as powerful as God.

This is a different view. For me, I see God sharing all, nothing held back. His will is ours. Complete harmony / union. Nothing / no one "lesser".
John 17: 21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

John 14:2-3
King James Version
2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

Beautiful verses.

 

[Nancy]

I do the same thing. I differ somewhat from your ideas about heavenly existence. For instance I don't think God shares all that is and has. I believe we become his angels and get a dwelling place there. Angels aren't as powerful as God.

John 14:2-3

King James Version

2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

Hi Devin, I used to think that we became angels in The Kingdom but then, would that make us into a different species all together? I read that we will be as the angels, but my thoughts go to the spiritual aspect. We will find out one day

 

[dev553344]

This is a different view. For me, I see God sharing all, nothing held back. His will is ours. Complete harmony / union. Nothing / no one "lesser".
John 17: 21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

Beautiful verses.

I interpret that differently. The people being one. They are of one mind, but can't obviously comprehend the mind of God because he is infinitely intelligent. And God is pure love without fear. 1 John 4:18

Philippians 2:2
“Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind.”

And the apostles were given to act with God's will and that he would perform miracles for them at times. But apostles didn't have the true spirit and mind and body to perform miracles in all truth. God did it for them. They would give the glory to God.

John 14:12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

I interpret that differently. The people being one. They are of one mind, but can't obviously comprehend the mind of God because he is infinitely intelligent. And God is pure love without fear. 1 John 4:18

Philippians 2:2
“Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind.”

And the apostles were given to act with God's will and that he would perform miracles for them at times. But apostles didn't have the true spirit and mind and body to perform miracles in all truth. God did it for them. They would give the glory to God.

John 14:12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

The apostles were not fully perfected yet. That's a lifetime+ journey, even for the best of us.

 

[dev553344]

Hi Devin, I used to think that we became angels in The Kingdom but then, would that make us into a different species all together? I read that we will be as the angels, but my thoughts go to the spiritual aspect. We will find out one day

Yes I was taught by God certain things regarding angels. And I think I'll just wait and see also. I interpret "as" angles similar to how you might say, acting "as" president.

 

[dev553344]

Hi Devin, I used to think that we became angels in The Kingdom but then, would that make us into a different species all together? I read that we will be as the angels, but my thoughts go to the spiritual aspect. We will find out one day

Oh, I didn't catch that at first, different species? But no I don't think Angels are different species. We are taught about angels in the bible. Some dwell among us and you might mistake them for normal people. While others appear more glorious. And I'm not sure or not if God doesn't change them to be either:

Hebrews 13
2 Be not forgetful to entertain strangers: for thereby some have entertained angels unawares.

Matthew 28
2And behold, a severe earthquake had occurred, for an angel of the Lord descended from heaven and came and rolled away the stone and sat upon it. 3And his appearance was like lightning, and his clothing as white as snow.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

@GRACE ambassador ,

In regards to the "different Jesus claims" made by "anti-cultists". I'll be super direct here: the difference between LDS Christian and Creedal Christian on the nature of God is that LDS Christians believe the Father/Son/Spirit to be 3 persons in 1 God through unity of will/purpose/mercy/glory/etc. Jesus Christ was/is the Son of God whom created the Earth, is each of our Savior, born, died, and was gloriously bodily resurrected. The Athanasian Creed states that + God is 1 through a shared substance. That's the difference.

That is a difference and it is important. Speaking plainly, I do find the Creeds to be in serious error here and heavily influenced by pagan philosophy. But I'm not going to get my metaphorical pitchfork out and scream "you filthy Creedal worshipping a different Jesus than that of the Bible! You're damned brainwashed cultists that don't know Christ at all!". That stance is RIDICULOUS.

A person is saved through faith and not their ability to pass a theology test. A new-born Christian with barely beginning of understanding is just as saved as the greatest scholar. A Creedal Christian loves Christ as much as I do. Let's add a theology test to things when Christ does not.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Frequently I see "JW and Mormons" lumped together. But this isn't a productive paradigm. Having studied both, here's the major similarities & differences. I will be straight up honest here: I PASSIONATELY disagree with JW beliefs. Extremely so. And I realize that this post got very long, so I split it.

Similarities:
- Both are "restorationist" denominations. In other words, they believe that mainstream the Christian church went astray centuries ago and now Truth is restored. However they have radically different views of what God's Truth is (discussed more below).
- Both majorly stress Matthew 28:19, and believe in active missionary work, including traditionally door-to-door. The methods of this missionary work are very different, including in the last few decades LDS Christians has largely stop door-to-door.
- Both have un-paid clergy. Preaching, including from the pulpit, is everyone's duty, and not a professional job.
- Both have historical major events in the eastern USA in the 1800's.
- Both are labeled as "cults" by Walter Martin & his disciples.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Differences (breaking this up into different categories): Straight theology--
- LDS Christians celebrate the divinity of Jesus Christ, the Son of God whom has always existed. JW deny this, believe Jesus was the created angel Michael.
- LDS Christians believe Christ died on the Cross. JW believe on a stake.
- LDS Christians believe in continuing revelation- that God still speaks & scriptures still flow. The version of the Bible used is the KJV, but you're free to study other versions as well. JW are sola-scriptura, focused on the Watchtower produced "New World Translation of the Bible".
- LDS Christians have a huge stress on personal scripture study, prayer, and revelation received for yourself. JW do not: the Watchtower provides the correct interpretation of scripture.
- LDS Christians partake in the Lord's Supper every week, and everyone is welcome to partake, including non-LDS Christians. JW have their Lord's Supper celebration once a year, and not even the JW members are supposed to partake (unless you are one of the 144,000).
- LDS Christian believe Christ's Second Coming is still yet to come. JW believe He came in 1914.
- LDS Christians have a different view of the afterlife. In short it's a "good-better-best" view of things for everyone. JW believe only 144,000 JW actually go to Heaven, the rest live on Earth for eternity, and non-JW are destroyed.
- Following the above, LDS Christian discord is very focused on love & serving others. There's no threats. JW believe in the actual destruction of all non-JW and their "stay in the boat" discord reflects that.


Difference in external practices:
- LDS Christians participate in whatever holidays they want. Christmas and Easter are big religious celebrations on a individual & organizational level. JW shun these.
- LDS Christians may join the military, vote, and participate in all community events. JW shun these.
- LDS Christians pass on alcohol, tobacco, & coffee. JW partake of these.
- LDS Christians are free to receive any medical treatment. JW do not do blood transfusions.


Differences: interacting with others--
- LDS Christians believe strongly that other folks have the right to believe as they do- this is so essential it's literally an Article of Faith. JW do not hold this belief.
- LDS Christians are happy to be friends with all, including non-members, ex-members, etc. Family especially is to be loved. JW shun associations with others, especially ex-members, including family.
- LDS Christians acknowledge other Christians as Christians- disciples of Christ. That is an obvious statement. Yes, there are major differences in belief/practice, but other folks in other denominations are still Christians and will spend eternity with Him happy beyond their wildest dreams. JW do not believe this and instead proclaim all non-JW will be destroyed.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Prompted by other discussion here on the board, today's topic: LDS Christian views on gender relations & marriage.

Gender is an intrinsic characteristic of each person, the spiritual and biological components matching. Men and women are different than each other, and meant to be partners. The man ideally should be the leader, but "leader" does not equal "ruler"! Again: partners. If one person belittles/controls/abuses the other, then that is a major sin.

Marriage between a man and a woman is foundational to God's plan: a good & godly thing! Sexuality is a gift from God to create children & bond a couple. Mis-use of this gift, including any sexual activities with someone outside out your married spouse, is a major sin.

Children are likewise a foundational gift from God. The timing/number of children is a decision to be made between God & the couple.

 

[amigo de christo]

As i have said about the CC so now i say about the LDS . Beware the deceptoins of men gone wrong .
Pick up those bibles and learn truth for yourself .

 

[Jane_Doe22]

As i have said about the CC so now i say about the LDS . Beware the deceptoins of men gone wrong .
Pick up those bibles and learn truth for yourself .

I do learn for myself. That's WHY I am an LDS Christian.

Every other denomination, including yourself @amigo de christo , don't encourage me to study for myself. They'll say they want that, until there's a disagreement and then it's "shut up and do what the pastor tells you". I'm also very used to other denomination assuming "well, if you're not with us, then you're not really studying", which is both uncharitable and cultish of them to even think.

And as I stated at the start here:
This is meant to be purely respectful & informative, explaining me explaining my/my denomination's beliefs. I do request: that if you're not interested in actually listening/dialogue, then please move on. Let's not waste your or my time. I'm not interested in being told "well you need to repent of all this stuff Walter Martian told me you believe you mindless cultist!!".