Legalism : How to get out of it.

[Behold]

Yes, adding to the 'how to' collection can only be done by those who think they know 'how to'

Paul the Apostle, who wrote the doctrine for the Church is our "how to" Theological and Doctrinal guide and teacher.
See his 13 Epistles for the update.
You've never experienced this at all, , and that is why you have no clue, and have remained clueless.. @quietthinker .

The thing is...... you and many others here....had all this time, a good part of your life to find out what Paul was given by Jesus that you were to learn so that your understanding of God's Revelation can become your real faith.
You never found out., and you do still have time, (as long as you are breathing) ......but, you have to want to know the truth and make the effort to go there and receive it.
Paul is your Theological guide and your instructor along with the Holy Spirit and the Holy Bible.

 

[Paul Christensen]

Paul initially believed in Jesus based on a mystical and miraculous experiance he had with The Lord.
Later, he went into a sabbatical type of isolation for 3 yrs, and at this time Jesus taught Paul "the Gospel" that is "Paul's Gospel" that didnt exist until it was revealed to Paul, who then revealed it to the world.

Now, this same "righteousness by faith" had been the Salvation of Abraham, but it was not a known gospel at that time.

So, the "imputed righteousness" of God, that became Abraham's rightesousess, is now what we understand as "the Gift of Righteousness", that David spoke about and that Paul teaches as a part of his Salvation Doctrine.

Where does it say in Scripture that Paul had a mystical experience with God? Paul's encounter of the Damascus Road was a direct personal encounter with the risen and glorified Christ. That's what changed him.

 

[Behold]

Where does it say in Scripture that Paul had a mystical experience with God? Paul's encounter of the Damascus Road was a direct personal encounter with the risen and glorified Christ. That's what changed him.

Thats the encounter.

Jesus is "God manifested in the Flesh" and Paul met Him on that road.
This is a mystical experience, beyond amazing that happened because Jesus said that Paul is a "chosen vessel".....unique, one of a kind.
Paul is the greatest Christian who ever lived... And Paul himself said that He had accomplished more, through the Holy Spirit that is the enabling power of Christ then "all other apostles".
So, Not long after this "road" experience and Paul's subsequent conversion, He was led into a 3 yr "one on one" with Jesus who taught Paul all the Church Doctrine, including giving Him what Paul referred to 3x in the NT, as := ""MY Gospel"".
You can begin to read about this in : Galatians 1:17

You can find the essence of Paul's Gospel here...

A.) "We preach CHRIST Crucified".

 

[Paul Christensen]

Thats the encounter.

Jesus is "God manifested in the Flesh" and Paul met Him on that road.
This is a mystical experience, beyond amazing that happened because Jesus said that Paul is a "chosen vessel".....unique, one of a kind.
Paul is the greatest Christian who ever lived... And Paul himself said that He had accomplished more, through the Holy Spirit that is the enabling power of Christ then "all other apostles".
So, Not long after this "road" experience and Paul's subsequent conversion, He was led into a 3 yr "one on one" with Jesus who taught Paul all the Church Doctrine, including giving Him what Paul referred to 3x in the NT, as := ""MY Gospel"".
You can begin to read about this in : Galatians 1:17

You can find the essence of Paul's Gospel here...

A.) "We preach CHRIST Crucified".

I totally agree with your comment about Paul, but where we differ is that Paul's encounter with Christ was real. The glorified Christ as described in Revelation, making John fall at his feet as if dead, was actually there in front of Paul on the Damascus Road. This is the real Christ as He is right now.

All the stories about Jesus appearing and visiting people being just like how artists depict him as an ordinary human being, are false. You are correct, Paul was especially chosen, and that is why there was a powerful one-off visitation by Jesus. This has never happened again, and we won't see Jesus until He comes again personally at the Second Coming where every eye shall see Him.

 

[Behold]

I totally agree with your comment about Paul, but where we differ is that Paul's encounter with Christ was real.

Ive not indicated or implied that Paul's meeting with Jesus was not REALITY, so whatever you are not understanding that im explaining.........here is more and i hope this helps.

Meeting the Living Christ in person, is mystical.
Seeing a miracle is mystical.
The way the Holy Spirit reveals understanding is Mystical.
Christianity is ALL Spiritual, and that means that in a secular world, Christianity is mystical as per its operation.
Christianity is not of this world, its Heavenly, yet it operates mystically on this Earth through Christ's Body.
Paul even says..."i'll show you a mystery"....and He certainly met the mystery, and the mystery was mystical and literal.
Paul teaching is mystical......its otherworldly because its Heaven sent and spiritually discerned.

What happened to Paul, was not a vision or a dream, it was a mystical literal encounter with Heaven's Glory, who is Christ The Lord.

 

[Paul Christensen]

Ive not indicated or implied that Paul's meeting with Jesus was not REALITY, so whatever you are not understanding that im explaining.........here is more and i hope this helps.

Meeting the Living Christ in person, is mystical.
Seeing a miracle is mystical.
The way the Holy Spirit reveals understanding is Mystical.
Christianity is ALL Spiritual, and that means that in a secular world, Christianity is mystical as per its operation.
Christianity is not of this world, its Heavenly, yet it operates mystically on this Earth through Christ's Body.
Paul even says..."i'll show you a mystery"....and He certainly met the mystery, and the mystery was mystical and literal.
Paul teaching is mystical......its otherworldly because its Heaven sent and spiritually discerned.

What happened to Paul, was not a vision or a dream, it was a mystical literal encounted with Heaven's Glory, who is Christ The Lord.

I think I get what you are saying. Perhaps I baulk at the word "mystical" because of my Pentecostal background (which I have since rejected because I couldn't see much of it in the New Testament). Much of it was having faith in mystical experiences, manifestations, and emotions, plus new revelation, not reflected in the description of the Early Church in the book of Acts.

I have come to the place where I believe that Christ and the Holy Spirt are real, not because I feel goosebumps up my spine during emotionally charged worship sessions, but because Scripture says that He is real and present with me at all times, and that I am indwelled with the Spirit because the Bible tells me that when I put my trust in Christ, I received the infilling of the Holy Spirit, who is still there on a gray and cold Monday morning when I pull myself half sleep out of bed, saying instead of "Good morning Lord" I say, "Good Lord, morning!"

For me, faith consists in believing what the Bible says about God, Christ, and the Holy Spirit.

 

[Behold]

I think I get what you are saying. Perhaps I baulk at the word "mystical" because of my Pentecostal background (which I have since rejected because I couldn't see much of it in the New Testament). Much of it was having faith in mystical experiences, manifestations, and emotions, plus new revelation, not reflected in the description of the Early Church in the book of Acts.

I understand perfectly your issue with the Pentecostal/Charismatic system.
Ive seen a lot of it.......a lot.

Big issue there.......and its a simple but profound issue they have... and its this...

The "Acts of the Apostles".....explains that all the supernatural power found in this ONE Book, is = "ACTS.. of the Apostles".

And we can go to 2nd Corin 12:12, where Paul states that Apostles have supernatural or mystical (Heavenly power) abilities.

It will come as a shock to some of you to actually realize that Paul caused a Male Witch to go blind for a while, or that the Holy Spirit caused two fake religious liars to drop dead inside a small local assembly.

Sometimes on this forum, i see a couple of people who almost DAILY have no respect for God, or the Bible, just hammering away with their conceited unbelief and false accusations against both...., and i fear for them, because God is not changed, and He does not continue to have patience with this type of public disrepect.
Its one thing to have your harsh opinions against God and the Bible inside yourself, but when you go VOCAL in public... its asking for harm to fall on you.
Dont do it. !


"God is NOT Mocked".

So, for the Reader who is not quite grasping what im teaching.....its this....... The Pentecostal-Charismatic Denominations are trying to replicate, per Christian, what only an Apostle can do.... 2000 yrs ago.
Therefore, what the Pentecostal & Charismatic or Word of Faith Denominations do to their people, is have them wasting their Christianity chasing all this......they have them convinced that THEY are supposed to be able to perform the same "ACTS of the Apostles"..., and they can't, because all of this is "ACTS... of the Apostles", not Acts of all Christians.
So, you have these very large Pentecostal-Word of Faith-Charismatic worldwide denominations all trying to produce, per Christian........the "ACTS of the Apostles" and that is why there is so much fakery and dishonesty, and so much confusion, pride, and strife, found within the Pentecostal - Charismatic religious world.

The other issue they have, is that Pentecostal - Charismatic Doctrine, teaches that you can lose your Salvation.
So, when that is BELIEVED then this is the proof that their understanding of Salvation is : ZERO.

So, you have these "charismatic" denominations, many millions who are trying to perform "ACTS of the Apostles" and at the same time don't even understand God's Salvation, even the very basics.
= What a Religious MESS !

A.) Chaos and Deception and Failure is the end result.

And also of note, is that there is nothing more confused then a confused Pentecostal-Charismartic, trying to explain the 'gift of Tongues".

I have come to the place where I believe that Christ and the Holy Spirt are real, not because I feel goosebumps up my spine during emotionally charged worship sessions

"Christ IN YOU">.........proves that you are the "Temple of the Holy Spirit", because "Christ is THAT Spirit".
And that Spirit brings Joy, Power, Peace, and REVELATION.

That we have Christ inside us is the LITERAL proof we are born again.

 

[Paul Christensen]

I understand perfectly your issue with the Pentecostal/Charismatic system.
Ive seen a lot of it.......a lot.

Big issue there.......and its a simple but profound issue they have... and its this...

The "Acts of the Apostles".....explains that all the supernatural power found in this ONE Book, is = "ACTS.. of the Apostles".

And we can go to 2nd Corin 12:12, where Paul states that Apostles have supernatural or mystical (Heavenly power) abilities.

It will come as a shock to some of you to actually realize that Paul caused a Male Witch to go blind for a while, or that the Holy Spirit caused two fake religious liars to drop dead inside a small local assembly.

Sometimes on this forum, i see a couple of people who almost DAILY have no respect for God, or the Bible, just hammering away with their conceited unbelief and false accusations against both...., and i fear for them, because God is not changed, and He does not continue to have patience with this type of public disrepect.
Its one thing to have your harsh opinions against God and the Bible inside yourself, but when you go VOCAL in public... its asking for harm to fall on you.
Dont do it. !


"God is NOT Mocked".

So, for the Reader who is not quite grasping what im teaching.....its this....... The Pentecostal-Charismatic Denominations are trying to replicate, per Christian, what only an Apostle can do.... 2000 yrs ago.
Therefore, what the Pentecostal & Charismatic or Word of Faith Denominations do to their people, is have them wasting their Christianity chasing all this......they have them convinced that THEY are supposed to be able to perform the same "ACTS of the Apostles"..., and they can't, because all of this is "ACTS... of the Apostles", not Acts of all Christians.
So, you have these very large Pentecostal-Word of Faith-Charismatic worldwide denominations all trying to produce, per Christian........the "ACTS of the Apostles" and that is why there is so much fakery and dishonesty, and so much confusion, pride, and strife, found within the Pentecostal - Charismatic religious world.

The other issue they have, is that Pentecostal - Charismatic Doctrine, teaches that you can lose your Salvation.
So, when that is BELIEVED then this is the proof that their understanding of Salvation is : ZERO.

So, you have these "charismatic" denominations, many millions who are trying to perform "ACTS of the Apostles" and at the same time don't even understand God's Salvation, even the very basics.
= What a Religious MESS !

A.) Chaos and Deception and Failure is the end result.

And also of note, is that there is nothing more confused then a confused Pentecostal-Charismartic, trying to explain the 'gift of Tongues".




"Christ IN YOU">.........proves that you are the "Temple of the Holy Spirit", because "Christ is THAT Spirit".
And that Spirit brings Joy, Power, Peace, and REVELATION.

That we have Christ inside us is the LITERAL proof we are born again.

I agree. We see in Acts that miraculous acts were performed by just the Apostles. There is no evidence that ordinary rank and file believers did them. We do see in church history that God did sovereign miracles through properly Holy Spirit ordained ministries. But it was never miracles on demand. The Holy Spirit was in total control concerning whether a miracle happened or not.

John Wesley had 250 documented miracles of healing throughout his long ministry. Even his horse got healed of lameness at one point while travelling from one town to another. Katherine Kuhlman's preached the Gospel, and people got healed sovereignly without her praying for anyone. Some got healed of life threatening medical conditions while on their way to her meetings. It seems that when properly ordained ministries preach the Gospel, healings happen sovereignly. Healing "on demand" ministries tend to fail every time, and those who give "seed faith" offerings are actually ripped off by false promises.

My definition of "revelation" is when the Holy Spirit applies the written Scriptures to a life or ministry situation to give divine wisdom. It is never "revelationary" material that has not already been dealt with in the Scriptures. For Paul "sound doctrine" is found in the Scriptures, and in his opinion, as he told Timothy, "Some have departed from sound doctrine and gone after fables". I see the new revelation touted by the New Apostolic and Word of Faith movements as "fables" as described by Paul.

When Paul talked about the eyes of our understanding being opened, it was in the context of the revealing of the mystery that God sent Jesus to die on the Cross for us, taking away the penalty of sin, and giving us the righteousness of Christ as a free gift. This revelation was hidden to the OT saints, and was fully revealed through Paul to the Christian church. True revelation is centred around Christ and Him crucified. This is why Paul, when he went to Corinth, was determined not to preach anything else but Christ crucified.

 

[saved by grace 101]

Katherine Kuhlman's preached the Gospel, and people got healed sovereignly without her praying for anyone. Some got healed of life threatening medical conditions while on their way to her meetings.

I read all of her books. In her biography, Daughter of Destiny, it repeats what happened when she got an honourary diploma from Oral Roberts University.. She said, and I quote:
'Anyone can see the power in their services I have seen in mine, but it costs everything'

 

[XtraPercept]

Just understand one simple fact...

Perhaps I might summarize further your initial post in the following statement:

True faith is a well from which the believer overflows with good works for the delight in performing them under the ever present countenance of God.

 

[saved by grace 101]

We need to take notice of what Paul says about the Law (The Ten Commandments) in relation to his own experience. He says in Romans that he didn't know he was a sinner until he heard the Law. Then he knew that he was in a hopeless position because he knew that he could not keep the demands of the law. Then he heard the Gospel, and knew that Christ was his only Saviour. He then said that the law is his schoolmaster in order to lead him to Christ. So the purpose of the Law is to show us that we are sinners. Once we receive Christ as Saviour, the Law is fulfilled, and we are saved by grace through faith in Christ.

But we don't continue in sin, as Paul says. We are given a new heart and the infilling of the Holy Spirit, converting us, giving us godly sorrow and hatred for sin. We are always humble because no matter how hard we try, we can never be perfect in ourselves. We need to trust in the perfect righteousness of Christ to be acceptable to God, and to submit to the Holy Spirit so that we continue to be Christ's workmanship to do the good words prescribed for us.

Im sure you were not taught the above in the Pentecostal church you went to. I was raised in one, at that time I tried to attain to Heaven as Saul tried to attain to attain to Heaven, so I got the same result he did(Rom7:7-11 kjv)

 

[Behold]

My definition of "revelation" is when the Holy Spirit applies the written Scriptures to a life or ministry situation to give divine wisdom. It is never "revelationary" material that has not already been dealt with in the Scriptures.

The Holy Spirit opens the scriptures so that the Believer can get the revelation.
If the believer has a faith issue then they can't get the revelations, until they remove the spiritual BLOCK that is hindering them from receiving from God's word, = the revelations.
If a person believes that they can lose their salvation, then their faith is broken because their understanding of God's Salvation is wrong.... and therefore the bible is under lock and key,and wont be unlocked until their broken faith is restored.
You find these types on Fourms whining like a box of puppies about "license to sin" and posting a lot of verses that they dont understand.

Paul explains that receiving the revelation.... as the "eyes of your understanding" = being enlightened......so that is our spirit man Discerning not the words but the deeper context of the verse........ = we get the revelation.

The word is LIGHT, and when we get the revelation then we are being En-Lightened by the Holy Spirit.

 

[Paul Christensen]

Im sure you were not taught the above in the Pentecostal church you went to. I was raised in one, at that time I tried to attain to Heaven as Saul tried to attain to attain to Heaven, so I got the same result he did(Rom7:7-11 kjv)

It wasn't until after I left the Pentecostal movement and studied Reformed theology that I learned that when Jesus died on the Cross He took upon Himself the penalty for all my sins, and gave me His pure righteousness as a free gift, and that true faith is in the Christ of the Gospels, and not in experiences or manifestations.