Lent

[Waiting on him]

Isaiah 58:5-14 KJV
[5] Is it such a fast that I have chosen? a day for a man to afflict his soul? is it to bow down his head as a bulrush, and to spread sackcloth and ashes under him ? wilt thou call this a fast, and an acceptable day to the Lord ? [6] Is not this the fast that I have chosen? to loose the bands of wickedness, to undo the heavy burdens, and to let the oppressed go free, and that ye break every yoke? [7] Is it not to deal thy bread to the hungry, and that thou bring the poor that are cast out to thy house? when thou seest the naked, that thou cover him; and that thou hide not thyself from thine own flesh? [8] Then shall thy light break forth as the morning, and thine health shall spring forth speedily: and thy righteousness shall go before thee; the glory of the Lord shall be thy rereward. [9] Then shalt thou call, and the Lord shall answer; thou shalt cry, and he shall say, Here I am . If thou take away from the midst of thee the yoke, the putting forth of the finger, and speaking vanity; [10] And if thou draw out thy soul to the hungry, and satisfy the afflicted soul; then shall thy light rise in obscurity, and thy darkness be as the noonday: [11] And the Lord shall guide thee continually, and satisfy thy soul in drought, and make fat thy bones: and thou shalt be like a watered garden, and like a spring of water, whose waters fail not. [12] And they that shall be of thee shall build the old waste places: thou shalt raise up the foundations of many generations; and thou shalt be called, The repairer of the breach, The restorer of paths to dwell in. [13] If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the Lord , honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words: [14] Then shalt thou delight thyself in the Lord ; and I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth, and feed thee with the heritage of Jacob thy father: for the mouth of the Lord hath spoken it .

Tecarta BibleThis is the fast he requires.its not about going without McDonald’s for a day.

 

[justbyfaith]

God is a fruit checker, not a doctrine checker.

Fruit develops out of doctrine. If the doctrine is bad, then the fruit will be rotten as the result.

If the fruit is bad, you can be certain that rotten doctrine is the cause of it.

If the doctrine is sound, there will be good fruit.

If there is truly good fruit, you can be sure that sound doctrine is the cause of it (even if the person adheres to a faith system that generally accepts false doctrine).

Consider that 1 Timothy 4:16 tells us that if we continue in righteous living and sound doctrine we will save both ourselves and those who hear us.

 

[Helen]

Fruit develops out of doctrine. If the doctrine is bad, then the fruit will be rotten as the result.

If the fruit is bad, you can be certain that rotten doctrine is the cause of it.

Hi there,
Would you like to pause and think a bit on that?

I think not my friend.
John 15 does not teach that... there is only once place for fruit that pleases God.
"I Am the Vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in Me, ( nothing about doctrine) and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without Me ye can do nothing. "

The fruit comes from Jesus Christ not the knowledge of doctrine.

But, if you like you can 'show me' where you learned that fruit comes via doctrine. I'm listening.

 

[Nancy]

Hi there,
Would you like to pause and think a bit on that?

I think not my friend.
John 15 does not teach that... there is only once place for fruit that pleases God.
"I Am the Vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in Me, ( nothing about doctrine) and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without Me ye can do nothing. "

The fruit comes from Jesus Christ not the knowledge of doctrine.

But, if you like you can 'show me' where you learned that fruit comes via doctrine. I'm listening.

"He that abideth in Me..." I see salvation in this. He IS our reward now, and forever. (whatever "forever" means Mark lol)

 

[CoreIssue]

Yes the church chose to call the season remembering Jesus in the desert, Lent. Why is this a problem?

You mean Catholicism chose to call one something they invented a holy time when it is not holy by the Bible.

The problem is that it is man-made by a cult.

 

[Nancy]

You mean Catholicism chose to call one something they invented a holy time when it is not holy by the Bible.

The problem is that it is man-made by a cult.

Neither does it speak against scripture and...I do not believe it is mandatory for all Catholics, Episcopalians...

 

[CoreIssue]

Neither does it speak against scripture and...I do not believe it is mandatory for all Catholics, Episcopalians...

People can celebrate what ever they wish. But don't call it holy when it is not.

 

[justbyfaith]

The fruit comes from Jesus Christ not the knowledge of doctrine.

Jesus said, I am the way and the truth and the life...

I feel that it is the Holy Spirit who is saying to you through me that truth is like the sap or blood of the vine...

If there is poison in the blood or sap of the vine then the fruit will also contain poison...the fruit develops out of a transferal of the sap into the fruit, so that the fruit is made up of the substance of the blood of the vine that has moved from the vine to the end of the branch and which has then grown into the fruit, so that the fruit is made up of the substance of what has been transferred into it.

But, if you like you can 'show me' where you learned that fruit comes via doctrine. I'm listening.

Glad you're listening.

Is there a reason why you don't want to believe that truth is important?

Now I will agree that Jesus is the most important thing...a person can have perfect knowledge of sound doctrine and yet not have a relationship with Him...and a person can also have a relationship with Him and be ignorant of sound doctrine.

But I would say that if someone has a relationship with Him and is ignorant of sound doctrine, that His Spirit within them will lead them to study His love letter to them so that they will come to the knowledge of sound doctrine; and that this cannot fail in the heart of the true Christian.

And someone can know all about Jesus (having knowledge based on the word concerning who He is) but not know the Saviour Himself.

Jesus did say:

Jhn 5:39, Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
Jhn 5:40, And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

I would point out however that Jesus here says that the scriptures testify of who He is.

Therefore, if we have a concept of Him that is contrary to scripture, it should be clear that we don't have an accurate knowledge of Him.

We may say or think that we know Him; but we can only say that He is an acquaintance because we believe things about Him that are simply not true. Therefore if we were to go about saying, "I know Him" but at the same time telling people things about Him that are untrue, I think that at some point we will be called into account, either by Him or by someone who knows Him better than we do.

It is also possible to believe in a different Jesus than the Jesus of the Bible (2 Corinthians 11:3-4). If then, we are worshiping a different Jesus than the Jesus of the Bible, and we are branches in that vine, then we are branches in a vine that is different than the true vine.

And the fruit that develops as the result will be whatever fruit that might develop from worshiping a false version of Jesus.

Considering that the devil is the author of every counterfeit, I would not want to be connected to a counterfeit vine.

 

[aspen]

In the Old Testament ashes were found to have used for two purposes: as a sign of humility
and mortality; and as a sign of sorrow and repentance for sin. The Christian connotation for ashes in the liturgy of Ash Wednesday has also been taken from this Old Testament biblical custom./
Receiving ashes on the head as a reminder of mortality and a sign of sorrow for sin was a practice of the Anglo-Saxon church in the 10th century. It was made universal throughout the Western church at the Synod of Benevento in 1091.

Also:

"And the LORD said to him [one of the four cherubim], 'Go through the city, through Jerusalem, and put a mark [literally, "a tav"] upon the foreheads of the men who sigh and groan over all the abominations that are committed in it.' And to the others he said in my hearing, 'Pass through the city after him, and smite; your eye shall not spare, and you shall show no pity; slay old men outright, young men and maidens, little children and women, but touch no one upon whom is the mark. And begin at my sanctuary.' So they began with the elders who were before the house." (Ezekiel 9:4-6)

The early Church Fathers seized on this tav-chi-cross-christos connection and expounded it in their homilies, seeing in Ezekiel a prophetic foreshadowing of the sealing of Christians as servants of Christ. It is also part of the background to the Catholic practice of making the sign of the cross, which in the early centuries (as can be documented from the second century on) was practiced by using one's thumb to furrow one's brow with a small sign of the cross, like Catholics do today at the reading of the Gospel during Mas

 

[CoreIssue]

In the Old Testament ashes were found to have used for two purposes: as a sign of humility
and mortality; and as a sign of sorrow and repentance for sin. The Christian connotation for ashes in the liturgy of Ash Wednesday has also been taken from this Old Testament biblical custom./
Receiving ashes on the head as a reminder of mortality and a sign of sorrow for sin was a practice of the Anglo-Saxon church in the 10th century. It was made universal throughout the Western church at the Synod of Benevento in 1091.

Also:

"And the LORD said to him [one of the four cherubim], 'Go through the city, through Jerusalem, and put a mark [literally, "a tav"] upon the foreheads of the men who sigh and groan over all the abominations that are committed in it.' And to the others he said in my hearing, 'Pass through the city after him, and smite; your eye shall not spare, and you shall show no pity; slay old men outright, young men and maidens, little children and women, but touch no one upon whom is the mark. And begin at my sanctuary.' So they began with the elders who were before the house." (Ezekiel 9:4-6)

The early Church Fathers seized on this tav-chi-cross-christos connection and expounded it in their homilies, seeing in Ezekiel a prophetic foreshadowing of the sealing of Christians as servants of Christ. It is also part of the background to the Catholic practice of making the sign of the cross, which in the early centuries (as can be documented from the second century on) was practiced by using one's thumb to furrow one's brow with a small sign of the cross, like Catholics do today at the reading of the Gospel during Mas

But the use of ash originated in paganism.

The sign in the early church was the fish.

 

[aspen]

But the use of ash originated in paganism.

The sign in the early church was the fish.

Origin of the "Christian" Fish Symbol

 

[aspen]

There is nothing new under the sun Core

Your search for purity is vanity.

 

[CoreIssue]

Origin of the "Christian" Fish Symbol

No website there.

 

[CoreIssue]

There is nothing new under the sun Core

Your search for purity is vanity.

I'm not looking for purity on the earth.

But I'm not going to accept Catholic lies or authority.

 

[historyb]

Christ being tempted was real.

Lent was invented by the Catholic Church.

Your not that bright are you. Everything is a Catholic Conspiracy with you, wow your world must be depressing. Honestly your just not worth anyone's time or effort since you really don't study real Christian history and make up fake lies. Calling what Christ essentially did evil and Christians evil when the Church practiced Lent before Catholicism. In fact it was mentioned as of 325 at the council of Nicaea, of course to you it's evil. I pray that someday you will be a Christian.

 

[Helen]

If there is poison in the blood or sap of the vine then the fruit will also contain poison...the fruit develops out of a transferal of the sap into the fruit, so that the fruit is made up of the substance of the blood of the vine that has moved from the vine to the end of the branch and which has then grown into the fruit, so that the fruit is made up of the substance of what has been transferred into it.

Oh don't get me wrong. Truth is everything. Vital.
But I don't follow you on this bit... <quote- If there is poison in the blood or sap of the vine then the fruit will also contain poison. >

How can there be any poison in the blood/sap??? It is Jesus who is the Vine, and the blood/sap is HIS!!! He is pure , impossible to impart poison to His branches.

You talk about doctrine...yet even on this site..everyone and their uncle has a different doctrine... LOL And every one believes that theirs is the 'right' one.

 

[CoreIssue]

Your not that bright are you. Everything is a Catholic Conspiracy with you, wow your world must be depressing. Honestly your just not worth anyone's time or effort since you really don't study real Christian history and make up fake lies. Calling what Christ essentially did evil and Christians evil when the Church practiced Lent before Catholicism. In fact it was mentioned as of 325 at the council of Nicaea, of course to you it's evil. I pray that someday you will be a Christian.

Christ did not invent Lent.

I don't care how many times it was mentioned in Catholic councils.

It was more than mentioned in Nicaea. That is where it originated in 325 AD.

 

[Laish]

Your not that bright are you. Everything is a Catholic Conspiracy with you, wow your world must be depressing. Honestly your just not worth anyone's time or effort since you really don't study real Christian history and make up fake lies. Calling what Christ essentially did evil and Christians evil when the Church practiced Lent before Catholicism. In fact it was mentioned as of 325 at the council of Nicaea, of course to you it's evil. I pray that someday you will be a Christian.

Hello History b
Actually you can look back all the way to Irenaus of Lyons who lived 130-200 for one of the earliest statements concerning the fast before Easter but it lasted 3 days or 40 hours in his time . Also Tertullian also mentioned it as well some 125+ years before Nicaea .
Blessings
Bill

 

[justbyfaith]

Oh don't get me wrong. Truth is everything. Vital.
But I don't follow you on this bit... <quote- If there is poison in the blood or sap of the vine then the fruit will also contain poison. >

How can there be any poison in the blood/sap??? It is Jesus who is the Vine, and the blood/sap is HIS!!! He is pure , impossible to impart poison to His branches.

Consider what I said later in my post; that we can have a different Jesus than the Jesus of the Bible. If we are connected to the wrong Jesus, then very likely we are sucking on a slow poison as branches in the wrong vine.

You talk about doctrine...yet even on this site..everyone and their uncle has a different doctrine... LOL And every one believes that theirs is the 'right' one.

I would just say that each one of us has to go according to his own conscience as to what he or she believes. It is true that the way of every person is right in their own eyes...and this is true also concerning the doctrines that we believe in.

I know that my own understanding has evolved over time...and what has mattered most is my relationship with Christ. He has not left me to continue to believe things that are untrue; and if I currently believe anything that is untrue, I am certain that He will not allow me to continue to believe as I do.

But He wants me to continue seeking Him...and He wants me to continue seeking to understand truth as it is given to us in His word. It is a lifelong journey, as I continue to study to shew myself approved unto the Lord, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

I know that I am closer to the understanding of what God might call "the embodiment of truth, as concerning doctrine" today, than I was ten years ago. But even ten years ago I believe that I very likely had an unction from the Holy One so that I knew all things...which means that if I were ever faced with a lie from the enemy, I would be able to discern it as being a lie. But when it comes to understanding every doctrine as it is presented in the word of the Lord by understanding the teaching of the holy scriptures, I am growing in that daily, and will continue to grow in it until the day I die.

My purpose for being on these boards is not to convince others of my point of view...for others may indeed be able to show me that I am in error concerning some doctrine that I believe in; and in being shown my error I would require it of myself to change what I believe.

My prayer as I continue to frequent these boards is that sound doctrine might prevail and that we might all be guided into all truth by the power of the Holy Ghost.

Not one of us currently has a perfect handle on the embodiment of truth as it is contained in doctrinal teaching. Some of us may be closer than others; and that is where such verses as Luke 21:15, Acts of the Apostles 6:10 come in.

Each one of us that are born again have a perfect handle on the embodiment of truth as it exists in the Person of Jesus Christ...because each of us has a relationship with Him and are also able to consult Him any time we might have a question. In knowing Him as a Person, personally, we know the truth...for He is the way and the truth and the life...Amen?

 

[Waiting on him]

Amen?

You seem to testify of yourself a lot.