Let's discuss..cessation after death?

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BarneyFife

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...till there's a disagreement then you see the "other" side..
J.
Well, the other side of being a storehouse, presumably full, would be an empty one. lol
And good or bad, he ain't empty. ;)

We rate each other by comparison.
Unfortunately to each other.
Man looketh upon the outward appearance...
What outward appearance do we have to look upon? Other filthy rags.
Unless we esteem/assume others better than ourselves... :D
And If I'm 100 times holier than thou, what have I got?
We're both still one zillionth as holy as Jesus.
If we take God at His Word about the simple things,
There's unlimited wisdom to be had and a closer union with Him.
BHL's just another pilgrim. We're all broken.
:)
 
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marks

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Question: Would any of us, if we could, condemn a soul for eternal torment? Our hearts are not perfect like God's but still we could not agree to such a thing. Are then we more merciful than God? Even Hitler should suffer much, but still, that should come to an end and that what be merciful.
Personally, I don't think this looks at this from the correct direction.

He who suffered has ceased from sin, wrote Peter. He wrote this as a maxim. IF in fact the souls of men were created "durable", made to last, and God let's continue what He created - maybe there is actually some reason why He created us a certain way, and that certain way means we don't stop "being" - then when the time comes to put sin away from everything, eternal suffering has the benefit of removing sin from the unrepentant.

If people last forever, and there will be a new creation where there is no sin, then you have to address the question of how the unrepentant don't sin. This answers that question.

Much love!
 

David H.

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David, members here will tell you Blue Letter Bible and the link is not "scripturally" correct.
J.

? It is just a tool that I use. a link to the KJV and strong's concordance. Like any tool it can be used for good or to murder someone (Think an axe here)

IF we stop trusting, start worrying you think it is over for the teknon of God?
After all, it is a covenant, a relationship with our Father through Christ Who is well aware of our vacillating nature/character.
J.

If I may interject in this conversation.... I am bored so I will :).... Abiding in the vine is an active thing we as believers must do. I can choose to read the Bible or watch a filthy movie, this is an active decision we make with how we use our time. Paul says there are two states for the Christian life, to be "In the Spirit" and to "walk in the Spirit" They are not the same, one is if you will a state of being in the default mode as "Stunned" used the other is active and vibrant and active. Most times as believers we are living our life in the default mode, the fruit are produced when the computer is turned on and activated.
 

marks

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So in Heaven, if such a place like Hell existed forever, God would have to keep it a secret from us, erase it from our memories; for it would cause sadness and depression especially knowing that some of our family or friends didn't make it are there. There is only joy, peace and comfort in Heaven.
This assumes we think then as we think now, and I don't think that will be the case. We are pulled all sorts of directions by our corrupted opinions and feelings, I think.

Not to mention, Isaiah prophesied that the former creation won't in fact be remembered.

Much love!
 

David H.

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You’re right. Outer darkness is described with weeping and gnashing. So is being thrown in the lake of fire. But I don’t think they are the same place.

Right now that is an open ended question for me.... I do not know one way or the other, neither do I want to teach this one way or the other so as to give an excuse to others that they will have some sort of purgatorial second chance to enter the Kingdom.
 

Johann

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Paul says there are two states for the Christian life, to be "In the Spirit" and to "walk in the Spirit" They are not the same,

..whow:)...When were the believer sealed?
Now that is what I call a state and in sanctification progressively being conformed more and more into the image of our blessed Lord and Savior Christ Jesus all done in the sphere of the indwelling Holy Spirit.
I would say that in justification, regeneration and sanctification is an abiding state, sanctification ongoing. All depends how you see the "in" the Spirit and "walking" in the sphere of the Holy Spirit..
My 2 cents
J.
 

stunnedbygrace

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You don't know me, I am blunt (no offence)
J.

I like blunt. I understand blunt. I don’t like mean or testy. I just like conversation without innuendo. I’m missing the innuendo chip. It always goes right over my head if people try to get me to glean something by not saying exactly what they mean to say. I’m also missing a social cues chip. It’s a game I don’t get. Although, with people I spend a lot of time around, I can learn to do what they want me to do despite all the dancing around…
 
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stunnedbygrace

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Right now that is an open ended question for me.... I do not know one way or the other, neither do I want to teach this one way or the other so as to give an excuse to others that they will have some sort of purgatorial second chance to enter the Kingdom.

Well thank goodness you don’t have to be the judge of stripes and who gets how many and who sits where. You would be a nervous wreck!
 
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Ronald David Bruno

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...and live a life pleasing unto our Lord, denying self, take up our cross and keep on following the Master.
I find these words encouraging: Let everyone that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
The whole salvation of Christ in our stead is not just saved from hell Robert.
Which begs the question..how many are sealed with the Holy Spirit?
Is it biblical to be frivolous and lighthearted since Christ had nowhere to lay His weary head?
Can we live, in our old age, with one foot in the world ...
I agree, of course the gains of a relationship with Christ and gift of eternal life far surpass the losses and tragedy of spiritual death.
How many Christians are sealed? Don't know, but 2.65 billion claim to have faith in Christ and I believe the remnant to be saved will be in that neighborhood of 1/3 - which is very close to what it is now. All who are written in The Book of Life will be saved before they die and it could happen for many close to death.
People are rebellious until Gid gets their attention and persuades them, their resistance looses its steam , they become played out, bankrupt, which is the case near death. God can finally get their attention - He is so patient and merciful. Many a lost soul finally surrender to God on their death beds. My Mom did only days before she died. It's funny how just two weeks before that, she was telling me _ with a self-righteous and indignation _ that "all Christians have been brain washed to believing what we believe". She knew she was dying, but she stubbornly held onto her view, which was a smorgasbord of beliefs really: Reincarnation, Astrology, the Universal Energy Force (her impersonal god) and her own self. I chipped away at those views for 30 years - I had to, no other evangelist spent more than a few moments with her. And something happened one day. I had been telling her for her last few months that she needed to pray to God and ask for forgiveness. Wow, that would trigger anger. She didn 't believe she ever sinned, nor ever did anything wrong . She always would justify what she did or twist it to blame someone else. I don't want you to get the wrong idea, she was very loving, thoughtful and everyone loved her. She just did not want anyone _ God or man _ to be in authority over her. When I asked her to pray, she would say sharply with a raised voice, "He knows me, my thoughts" ... as if to say she did not need to inform Him about something. I said, "Yes, He does know everything , that is not the issue, He wants to have a relationship with you"! If you talk to Him, that would be acknowledging at least that He exists or that you want to believe.
And then I would give an example of an orphan whose mysterious parent from a distance knew all about their life, had been trying to make contact with this orphan, but the orphan thought it folly, that no such person existed , so never pursued to call back and find their parent. The parent left messages and a number to be reached so they could reunite but the orphan rejected the notion and dismissed it for years.
That reminds of a something a Pastor taught me once during a lesson about the soul of man. We are made in His (invisible Spirit) image, which means we have a soul: a mind, emotions, a will and creative abilities, but also a spirit, which gives us the ability to comminicate with God once it is given life). Animals have souls but not a spirit. They are programmed (with instincts) to live a certain way. They can solve problems, contemplate life, etc. But we have a hierarchal intricacy of abilities, we can contemplate our contemplations. We can want to want.
Animals get hungry and want food, or want to find a mate, but they can't want to want something, they are not made to think that deeply. The dog can't want to drive a car or play the guitar or fly like a bird. They instinctively think to live and function on a basic level, as they were designed. What's my point in all this? Humans can want to want. We may not have the deaire to play the piano, but we can want to have that desire. Someone may influence us, take us to a few live performances, get our interest and then our desire may spark and grow and so then we might take the steps towards learning to play.
Finally my point: Many unbelievers just don't want to know God. But they can want to want to know Him. That is a start. And I think that was the spark that finally ignited my Mom, she wanted to desire a relationship with God and so she opened the door of her heart.
God quickened her spirit, put that spark in her, the birth of faith, a dormant seed that finally sprouted roots and pushed through the surface to get some light and fresh
air and the veil of blindness was lifted. It's a funny thing. Throughout most of her life she wanted to go her own way, however she held unto Biblical principles that she learned growing up in an orphanage from the age of 9-14 due to her parents having TB and unable to care for their three kids. "Do onto others as you would have them do onto you"; " Everything happens for the best"; and "What you sow is what you reap". Both my parents strongly believed and lived by these principles, past dkwn frim their parents, just not their Maker. She did not adjust well to the authorities in the orphange and always held grievances towards the Nuns for their "mean mistreatment" of her. Can you believe they slapped her hand for being obstinate and rebellious - several times? How horrible! It was her pride more than the pain that was injured. I used to her tell, "They didn't slap you enough"! She'd laugh. She always laughed a lot and was happy, content. Go figure.
Two days before her death, I was with my daughter amd granddaughter. I called her and we were shocked. She was singing about Jesus to my 5-month old granddaughter that she loved her and Jesus loves her and was always there for her, how she loved us all and how Jesus' hand was on her shoulder. From rebelliousness to submission. God did that, she was incapable of lifting her own veil which is why people need to understand that God chooses us first and enables us to believe.
God Bless
 

Johann

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Although, with people I spend a lot of time around, I can learn to do what they want me to do despite all the dancing around…

Yeah, circular reasoning, fencing, parrying...when I joined this forum I flooded it with reformers teachings and now I am trying to clean it up.
In the process lost all credibility but...

2Ti_2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity...

Guess we can name the name of Christ and still not departing from iniquity.
This portion of scripture and the ones on my signature I hold to.
The tares and the wheat must grow up together.
J.
 

stunnedbygrace

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Just checking also remember those who don't have the Spirit of Christ are none of Christ.
This was not my post but it shows you how worldly oratory spoils everything.
what is the sealing of the Holy spirit?
J.

Well…I think it just means to receive the down payment of the Spirit. To have Him in you. To have eternal life. And given that I am not certain the outer darkness isn’t forever, and given my near certainty that only people who have eternal life can be cast there, it seems more terrifying to be put there than to be annihilated in the lake of fire. So it seems the worst fate is reserved for religious men, not for unbelievers. But I think honesty and humility go a long way with God and will keep a man safe.
 

stunnedbygrace

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IF we stop trusting, start worrying you think it is over for the teknon of God?
After all, it is a covenant, a relationship with our Father through Christ Who is well aware of our vacillating nature/character.
J.

We are saved by the kindness (grace) of God THROUGH trust (faith) and that trust was not of yourself. That small seed of trust He gifted you with is the talent He expects a return on. God is so merciful and patient that I don’t even think of if it’s over for me when I find I’ve stumbled. I just return to trust and begin to run again. He is forgiving and kind and patient and good and He asks for me to trust and says my trust will save me. So I take the least indiscretion of trust in me very seriously. It’s a place of great rest and shelter to leave behind all the worry and just trust even if it looks confounding whatever He is doing that I can’t see.
 
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Johann

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Well…I think it just means to receive the down payment of the Spirit. To have Him in you. To have eternal life.

"Stunned" "I think" is not very convincing..that's the problem, worldly intellectual rhetoric's has replaced biblical terminology, hence the numerous misunderstanding in dialogue, even here.
But I am not going to push you

When I stand before a holy God and Christ to give an account of my miserable life a "I think" will not suffice.
How's that for being blunt?
shalom to you and family
Johann.
 

David H.

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..whow:)...When were the believer sealed?
Now that is what I call a state and in sanctification progressively being conformed more and more into the image of our blessed Lord and Savior Christ Jesus all done in the sphere of the indwelling Holy Spirit.
I would say that in justification, regeneration and sanctification is an abiding state, sanctification ongoing. All depends how you see the "in" the Spirit and "walking" in the sphere of the Holy Spirit..
My 2 cents

We're all running in the same race, some make it to the finish line some don't. some win the crown, some don't. Nowadays people hate this because the inclusivity mentality has taken over and the participation trophy. The Biggest error of Protestantism is to say all believers are saints, I say only those who have made their election and calling sure and have run that race are the saints, the rest are counted among the faithful. salvation is for all, sainthood for the elect.... that is how I have come to nullify the Arminian Calvinist divide in the church. When this is rightly understood, it keeps you running the race while resting in His promises and not on your a** (The Doctrine of rest at work in your life).
 

Johann

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and given my near certainty that only people who have eternal life can be cast there,

People who have eternal life, sealed with the Holy Spirit, justified, sanctified..can be cast into the lake of fire?...or did I misunderstand you since you are not "working" with the scriptures?
J.
 

stunnedbygrace

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Stunned by Grace by this man..told you it was not my post.
I find this problamatic, there is no one on one dialogue but it is like "free for all" WWE Raw last man standing.
J.

The Spirit always leads us somewhere good in these conversations so hang in there!