Let's discuss..cessation after death?

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Johann

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But a rare unindoctrinated man walks in the middle of the road and manages to not fall in either ditch because he has understood the tension.

Give me a example found in scripture re your statement, there is a difference between indoctrination and error for being in error is not indoctrination, even your pastor can "indoctrinate" you
Blessings
J.
Your own fear is meant there…


Jud 1:22 And of some have compassion, making a difference:
Jud 1:23 And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.

..the obvious thrust of the entire book is those who were once faithful to God have rebelled... The Preposition ev with the Dative phobo..
Blessings
J.
 

Johann

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I thought he chose the picture because of - Therefore I run in such a way as not to run aimlessly; I box in such a way, as to avoid hitting air;

Never mind him, there is a reason why I chose this picture and now the personal insults is flying again.
J.
 

marks

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My personal view is that the rejection of the eternal gift of Life offered by Jesus on the cross demands an eternal punishment by a just God. We Know from scripture the beast and the false prophet will burn in hell forever, and these are two men empowered by Satan (The Dragon) in Revelation 20:10.

And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. (Revelation 20:10)

So we Know that at least two men will be tormented for "ever and ever" and we know the lake of fire is a place of eternal torment.... the question is who else gets thrown into the lake of fire? I would hope none of us, But a just God demands this of all who reject him. My advice, go to the mercy seat and find grace there that the blood of the lamb can spare you from being tormented for ever and ever.
We need to remember also that the Lake of Fire was not created for man, but for the devil and his angels. But it apparently is the only place men can go having refused Christ.

Much love!
 

marks

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The message often heard in church is, “Where is your fruit? You need to be producing fruit! Why aren’t you producing fruit?”

The branches reply, “I’m sorry. I’ll try harder this week.”

Next week, the question is asked again: “Did you bear fruit?”

And again, the response from the branches: “I tried, but failed.”

At that point, condemnation rains down. “You wicked, wicked branch!”

The inevitable result? Shame darkens the hearts of the branches, and disillusionment sets in.

How can this be the good news that Jesus proclaimed? It’s not. The teacher is putting the listener under the bondage to perform, and the listener is allowing them to do it. This is a huge misunderstanding. The responsibility of a branch is not to produce fruit, but to abide in Jesus. There is often confusion here: what does it mean to abide?

Abide as it is translated in the Bible means “to live or to dwell”. It is used as both a noun and a verb in the New Testament. How are we to understand the difference? Well, as a noun, abide communicates a stated reality of our life in Jesus. We dwell in Him. We live in Him. We always will, and nothing can ever change that.

However, when abide is used in verb form, we’re being commanded to abide. We’re being commanded to dwell in Him, to live in Him. What does that mean? How can we be commanded to do what we already are?

First, we need to understand that once we have come to faith in Jesus, we abide in Him and always will. Abiding is our default mode. It is just like breathing, it’s what we do naturally in Christ. Do you walk around focusing on your breathing all day? Hopefully not, that sounds tiring. In the same way, we do not have to go around every minute of the day questioning ourselves, “Am I abiding? Am I abiding?” If you are in Christ, you are abiding. It’s as simple as that. What glory this is!

If that is true, and it is, why did Jesus command us to abide? In my years of teaching, I’ve observed that most people struggle with the word ‘command’ here. Let’s try substituting command with ‘imperative invitation’. Jesus is calling us to make the choice to experience what we already have.

As a result of our choice to receive Christ, we possess the only true life source that can be found in the universe. However, it is clear from multiple passages in the New Testament that we can be tempted and enticed to seek life in other sources (James 1:13-15, Galatians 1:6). We can choose to override our default mode, and live in another program for seeking out life. Choosing to do so is like choosing to stop breathing. It is unnatural, and never turns out well. That’s what sin is.

The Prodigal Son is a powerful example of this. He was a son, and he had a wonderful father. All his needs were met in the relationship he shared with his dad. However, the son chose to “change programs.” He didn’t want to abide in his Father’s abode, and instead left for the far country. Bad idea.

Despite his poor choice, he never ceased to be a son - he just didn’t live or look like one. Life became very hard - and remained that way until he made the choice to go home. He returned to his Father, where he was meant to live and enjoy life. In doing so, he discovered life with his Father was far beyond what he had ever known or imagined before.

So, when Jesus gives us this “imperative invitation” to abide, He is telling us to “stay put”. He is telling us to reject the enticement of the far country and embrace deeper relationship with Him. We are to live where life is found, in Jesus.

Jesus is our Source. That’s what John 15 is all about. As the Vine, Jesus is the only one that can produce fruit, and He will produce fruit in our lives as we stay put (as we abide) in Him.

Let’s go back to our earlier scenario. The teacher in church asks, “Hey branches, are you seeing fruit in your life?”

The branches reply, “We’re trying to, but it’s not working!”

A true grace teacher will respond, “Branches, stay put in Jesus. Don’t even attempt to produce fruit. That’s His job, not yours. Dwell in the Vine, and watch as the fruit comes naturally.”

We have one simple command to follow, and it is a charge all of us MUST receive. We have an imperative invitation to live in a relationship of trust. 1 Thessalonians 5:24 says, “Faithful is He Who called you, and He will do it!”

Sounds familiar Sister?
Well said!

Much love!
 

marks

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IF we stop trusting, start worrying you think it is over for the teknon of God?
After all, it is a covenant, a relationship with our Father through Christ Who is well aware of our vacillating nature/character.
J.
More than that, we are His begotten children. Spirit children of God.

Much love!
 

marks

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It’s a lot of spiritual stuff, which is definitely NOT, as johann put it, our “ default mode.”
Why not?

Some look at "abiding" as you move in and out of it, but that's not the word. Abiding means you remain there, and I'd ask next, where? That where is In Christ. In Christ you are a new creation. In Christ you are elect. In Christ is you're rebirth, and forgiveness of sins, In Christ is Every Spiritual Blessing. If you do not actually remain "in Christ", all that is gone. Gone!

Having been born the spirit children of God by being immersed into Jesus' death and burial, we have become new people, and our newness is in Christ. I can't overstress the importance of understanding this. Everything we are as children of God is "in Christ".

"The branch that does not abide in Me" is not a branch that moves in and out. The branch that doesn't bear fruit is carried away by the Father. The branch that bears fruit is pruned to bear more. The branch that does not abide in Christ is cast out and burned. Not, the branch that stops abiding, it says, the branch that doesn't abide.

Much love!
 

stunnedbygrace

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Give me a example found in scripture re your statement, there is a difference between indoctrination and error for being in error is not indoctrination, even your pastor can "indoctrinate" you

An example of an unindoctrinated man walking in the midst of the tension? I’m chuckling here but…a man who would say, yes, but it is also written or, yes but God has also said…so the scripture example that comes to mind is :
5 Then the devil took him to the holy city and had him stand on the highest point of the temple. 6 “If you are the Son of God,” he said, “throw yourself down. For it is written:

“‘He will command his angels concerning you,
and they will lift you up in their hands,
so that you will not strike your foot against a stone.’”

7 Jesus answered him, “It is also written: ‘Do not put the Lord your God to the test.’”

So an unindoctrinated man does not discard some verses and argue for others. He knows both sets of verses and that they must fit together.

Earlier you said it is appointed a man to die once and then the judgement. I said yes, but there is another verse to consider, which is the possibility of the second death after the man is brought to life again for the judgement. So it is true that after the resurrection, some men will die a second time. But that certainly doesn’t fit with the doctrine of eternal torment as you can see.

Men do all sorts of strange things. They jump in a ditch and ignore “second death.” They redefine the word death to mean eternal existence, etc. all to keep a doctrine or teaching of men.
 
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marks

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Everlasting separation, a short space of "purgatory" or total annihilation?
Physical death is being separated from the body. Spiritual death is being separated from God.

Much love!
 

marks

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..whow:)...When were the believer sealed?
Now that is what I call a state and in sanctification progressively being conformed more and more into the image of our blessed Lord and Savior Christ Jesus all done in the sphere of the indwelling Holy Spirit.
I would say that in justification, regeneration and sanctification is an abiding state, sanctification ongoing. All depends how you see the "in" the Spirit and "walking" in the sphere of the Holy Spirit..
My 2 cents
J.

That should have a new thread I think.

Much love!
 

BarneyFife

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This is true, but just the same, "some save with fear . . ."

Much love!
Yeah, some of us just that warped that... that's what it takes.
Don't you hate when you have to type the same word twice back to back?
hissyfit.gif


How've you been, Buddy?
 
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marks

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Stunned by Grace by this man..told you it was not my post.
I find this problamatic, there is no one on one dialogue but it is like "free for all" WWE Raw last man standing.
J.
Welcome to our little corner of the web! You are discovering what we all discover. It's a bit like the wild wild west.

Much love!
 

stunnedbygrace

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Never mind him, there is a reason why I chose this picture and now the personal insults is flying again.
J.

I haven’t noted any personal insults…
Stallone has spoken about his trust in Jesus too so…
 
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Johann

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I haven’t noted any personal insults…

You don't enjoy this "mug" staring at you?
Anyways, I agree with him though..we should start a new thread on the sealing with the Holy Spirit, justification, sanctification which cannot happen without regeneration, you agree?
Which precedes which, what order, yes, that would sift the wheat from the chaff on this forum.
Although it is not our job to do the sifting we are commanded to try the spirits.
Blessings
J.
 
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stunnedbygrace

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Yeah, circular reasoning, fencing, parrying

Yes. When you see it you realize the man is defending something you haven’t seen yet. It’s odd. Or maybe not…it’s human. Even in everyday life, someone being unreasonable is defending something you can’t see…some perceived slight or some…belief.
 

marks

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Yeah, bullets for bullets, since our warfare is not against flesh and blood...we are shooting each other with "scripture" bullets.
I think the true ekklesia has gone underground, Satan and his minions don't have to do a thing since this world is doing a fine job as "believers" against "believers" are culling each other.
I think this forum should open a chat-room where people can at least see each other.
Blessings
J.
In a way the true church is hidden in a field. But while some are shooting bullets, still others are sincere. For myself, it's about discerning who is who, and focusing where there can be edification. And try to not be one of those shooting bullets, since all tempations are common.

Much love!