Lets discuss the gifts one at a time.

[setfree]

(kriss;49943)
No that isnt what I said You build yourself up by believing repenting studying his Word if a pastor minister is doing his Job his flock should be growing in their faith.
The pastor can build up a congregation by the word of God...this I agree! But the growing in faith comes from the individual...not the pastor. Let me put it to you this way...If you were on a football team, the coach can teach you the game, show you how to build your body up to be strong enough, encourage your efforts, but it is still up to the player to implement these into there lives.....On another note, the individual can take what the coach teaches him, go home and work out on weights,run, practice the plays etc. When he is at home he is building himself up...When the team gets together because of the individuals home edifying...the team is better off. When we edify ourselves this is not in a prideful way. We build ourselves up to better the church...the stronger the individual the stronger the team. Does this make sense?

 

[Christina]

You build yourself up by believing praying and repenting studying his Word thats what the word teaches us.

 

[setfree]

(kriss;49947)
You build yourself up by believing praying and repenting studying his Word thats what the word teaches us.
I agree with this, so we agree that it is not just the pastors job to edify us.

 

[setfree]

(kriss;49945)
I never said they werent everyone has some kind of gift but if you are going claim specific gifts there is a biblical standard you must adhere to.
You keep saying "there is a biblical standard you must adhere to".....What biblical standard must one adhere to to manifest the gift of healing?

 

[Christina]

you are taking the pastor thing out of context from my intentWhat I am saying is that pastor means shepard of his flock if one sheep gets lost is it not the shepards duty to go find it and bring it back to the herd.? Same as a pastor its his job to find out why a members of his flock are lost and bring them back to the fold. Its his job to teach Gods Word and truth to see that his flock has been fed the knowledge to keep the faith and wants to keep themselves built up.

 

[Christina]

Is someone required to be a believer to be healed??

 

[setfree]

Last gift to list is the manifestation of working of Miracles...The God-given ability to do miracles by the power of the Holy Spirit.This gift is close to the gift of healings...except that the power results in a miracle. Manifestation means "something made visible." This like all the other gifts can only be done by the Holy Spirit. God can work miracles without the help of man....but so can witches,demonic powers(ex. 7:11). In Cor. the word working is a plural word and can be explained as "energizings." We should be seeing more miracles in the Church...Why do we not see these miracles? Miracles deliver people, in this we can see his power, presence, and Love. It would be great to see this in a church..this would build up faith for more miracles. The greek word for miracles is dunamis..which means power. So the working of miracles is....energizing power manifested(made visible). For these miracles as mentioned before need....1. a revelation to know what to do.2. manifestation of faith to believe what is revealedcan come to pass.3. As God supplies the energy(power) we need to represent Christ in compassion/not pride.

 

[setfree]

(kriss;49950)
you are taking the pastor thing out of context from my intentWhat I am saying is that pastor means shepard of his flock if one sheep gets lost is it not the shepards duty to go find it and bring it back to the herd.? Same as a pastor its his job to find out why a members of his flock are lost and bring them back to the fold. Its his job to teach Gods Word and truth to see that his flock has been fed the knowledge to keep the faith and wants to keep themselves built up.
No, I agree with this statement. He has a job to do! But so do we...we need to take what he teaches and apply it. I did not take it out of context, I just wanted to make it clear that a pastor can do his job and we might not be built up...this is not the pastors fault this is ours. We have a responsibility to building ourselves up as well...as you stated-praying,repenting,studing etc.

 

[setfree]

(kriss;49951)
Is someone required to be a believer to be healed??
No, but I believe it takes faith, either by the person or others. You do not have to be a saved person to be healed...

 

[Christina]

then we agree that the healing comes from God to whom he chooses Now if that be true if someone has been given this gift why isnt he at a hospital allowing God to heal whom ever he choose's through that person ??

 

[setfree]

(kriss;49956)
then we agree that the healing comes from God to whom he chooses Now if that be true if someone has been given this gift why isnt he at a hospital allowing God to heal whom ever he choose's through that person ??
Did you read through all the gifts? First you have to have a word of knowledge/wisdom...If God does not direct you to the hospital...you go by yourself! All healing comes from God, but as I explained before Jesus did not heal everyone(in his own home town/because of unbelief; and he did not heal the lame man that Peter healed by the temple(acts3:6)Jesus said that he could do nothing without his father telling him first. Maybe it was God's will that Peter heal the lame man instead of Jesus. I do not claim to have all the answers, I do not understand why some are healed and some are not. But I trust that God knows what he is doing.....He healed in the Bible and he mentions this gift in 1 Cor.,Mark 16,James and more. God is still in the healing business...and it is manifested by believers.

 

[thisistheendtimes]

The reliance on pastors and scholars for each individual's spiritual growth and PERSONAL devotion/relationship is dangerous. The tendency is TO CONFORM and develop an IDENTICAL relationship with Jesus, not a PERSONAL relationship (whether any pastor makes a true and constant effort to guard against this, Christianity is in a sad state today). No matter how well meaning, traditionally, pastors do not teach INDIVIDUALITY/SELF, they teach "self abasement" (Colossians 2:18 and 23) and "rigor of devotion". How can their be a PERSONal relationship if a "SELF"/individual identity has not been well establihed? How can there be 'repentance in Christ' without SELF discipline? How can The Lord have a personal relationship with us (oh yes, a personal relationship is TWO WAY) if we just put on "airs"/personalities ?. The Lord is no respecter of persons/personalities, He only has regard for a person's true nature.Many Christians have become a 'book' (a walking bible) and have no true spirituality/righteousness of THEIR OWN/SELF."...so that GOD..." (not God's WORD, not PASTORS, not SCHOLARS, not BRETHREN, not SCRIPTURE) "may be EVERYTHING to EVERYONE"/each SELF (1 Corinthians 15:28). "...transformed by the renewal of your MIND" (not HEART, not BOOK, not PASTOR/SCHOLAR). Romans 12:2."...with all your strength, and with all your soul, and with all your heart, and with all your mind..." (not with 'all your book/pastor/scholar') Luke 10:27.

 

[Christina]

So sense a healer only seems to do this in his church then you are saying they must have enough faith to go to church. Only then does the knowledge and wisdom come to the healer ?does he pick and chose who to heal ? Or say its up to God? and if he doesnt know whom God will heal and whom he will not where does this knowledge come in?

 

[setfree]

Miracles is seen all through the Bible and God is the same yesterday,today and tomorrow. Moses,Joshua, Samuel, Elijah, Elisha are just to mention a few. They did not pray for the miracles...God told them to perform(word of wisdom/knowledge). It makes people uneasy to think of God working miracles/healings through people today. But the Bible is full of them and it is listed in the gifts 1 Cor. If you think about it.. if God is asking someone to step out in faith and manifest miracles and healings(by the power of the Holy Spirit) and they are not doing it...well maybe that is why we are not seeing it in the church today!It was revealed to Moses to part the Red Sea, but Moses cried out to God(Ex. 14:15) God says why cry for help, tell the people to do it(walk forward). God told Moses(word of knowledge/wisdom) what to do and Moses out of faith(manifested faith) acted on what God told him.Jesus tells us we would have power(Acts 1:8). We by faith need to believe his word and act so that we can be a blessing. He gave us authority in the Name of Jesus Christ...power by His Spirit.

 

[setfree]

(kriss;49959)
So sense a healer only seems to do this in his church then you are saying they must have enough faith to go to church. Only then does the knowledge and wisdom come to the healer ?does he pick and chose who to heal ? Or say its up to God? and if he doesnt know whom God will heal and whom he will not where does this knowledge come in?
I do not know where you are going with your first statement.we can get a word from the Lord anywhere, has God ever spoke to your spirit? I believe he choses who and when to heal, yes! The one that God choses to manifest his Spirit through will get the word of knowledge/wisdom.

 

[setfree]

(thisistheendtimes;49958)
The reliance on pastors and scholars for each individual's spiritual growth and PERSONAL devotion/relationship is dangerous. The tendency is TO CONFORM and develop an IDENTICAL relationship with Jesus, not a PERSONAL relationship (whether any pastor makes a true and constant effort to guard against this, Christianity is in a sad state today). No matter how well meaning, traditionally, pastors do not teach INDIVIDUALITY/SELF, they teach "self abasement" (Colossians 2:18 and 23) and "rigor of devotion". How can their be a PERSONal relationship if a "SELF"/individual identity has not been well establihed? How can there be 'repentance in Christ' without SELF discipline? How can The Lord have a personal relationship with us (oh yes, a personal relationship is TWO WAY) if we just put on "airs"/personalities ?. The Lord is no respecter of persons/personalities, He only has regard for a person's true nature.Many Christians have become a 'book' (a walking bible) and have no true spirituality/righteousness of THEIR OWN/SELF."...so that GOD..." (not God's WORD, not PASTORS, not SCHOLARS, not BRETHREN, not SCRIPTURE) "may be EVERYTHING to EVERYONE"/each SELF (1 Corinthians 15:28). "...transformed by the renewal of your MIND" (not HEART, not BOOK, not PASTOR/SCHOLAR). Romans 12:2."...with all your strength, and with all your soul, and with all your heart, and with all your mind..." (not with 'all your book/pastor/scholar') Luke 10:27.
Amen! we have a resposiblity for our spiritual growth. But this does not excuse a pastor..he will be held accountable for how he leads.

 

[Christina]

(setfree;49961)
I do not know where you are going with your first statement.we can get a word from the Lord anywhere, has God ever spoke to your spirit? I believe he choses who and when to heal, yes! The one that God choses to manifest his Spirit through will get the word of knowledge/wisdom.
Im saying all these healers only seem to heal in church If one does not have to have faith to be healed why would they be in a church? you are saying God tells the healer who to heal through wisdom then does that mean God only heal those with enough faith to go to church ?

 

[setfree]

(kriss;49964)
Im saying all these healers only seem to heal in church If one does not have to have faith to be healed why would they be in a church? you are saying God tells the healer who to heal through wisdom then does that mean God only heal those with enough faith to go to church ?
I do not recall Jesus healing in the Temple. I do know that the gift of the Holy SPirit was given to the believers and they were to be manifested.. to edify, exhort and comfort..just to name a few.I believe healing can come in several ways.....but we have to recieve the healing.Mark 11:24 ..What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them,and ye shall have them" This is acting in faith on God's Word.Gifts of healing are manifested through another person to you. All is done by God! Just different channel that God choses to heal. When a doctor treats an illness, who gets the credit...well if your not a christian usually the doctor, his degrees, the medicine. It is a shame that the unbelieving world can not see more healing done by the supernatural power of God. But many saw his miracles and healings and still did not believe.

 

[Christina]

I agree with most of that I think healers come in all shapes and sizes I think its the volenteer in the hospital that comes and prays with you when your ill, the friend that asks their church to pray for you, even if you never went to that church, the prayer line we have here or on other sites healers can be anywhere I just think the least likely place you find them is behind the pulpit.

 

[setfree]

(kriss;49969)
I agree with most of that I think healers come in all shapes and sizes I think its the volenteer in the hospital that comes and prays with you when your ill, the friend that asks their church to pray for you, even if you never went to that church, the prayer line we have here or on other sites healers can be anywhere I just think the least likely place you find them is behind the pulpit.
But there is a difference in this kind of healing you mentioned here and the manifestation of the Holy Spirit, both are done through faith in God. I see healings/miracle are listed in the ministry list(members of the body of Christ). Apostles, prophets,teachers,miracles,healing,helps,governments, diversities of tongues...I believe these are by the ministry(those called to a certain office)..but the same Lord.(1 Cor.12)It does not say that the miracle workers and healers in the Bible prayed (except some instance where Jesus said this miracle only happens through fasting and prayer) most of them acted on what God has already told them(message of knowledge/wisdom). These manifestions listed in Corinthians are a supernatural power. Something man can not take credit for, other than he allowed God to work through him. When God tells us to do something...whether through the Bible or through our spirit...it is time to act out of faith! People today (including myself) want to understand the spiritual things with our mind before we have faith in what the word of God says. My conclusion to the gifts listed in 1 Corinthians is that only believers that are filled with the Holy Spirit can manifest these gifts properly. Yes, there are plenty of fakes out there, but again we can not deny the Bible and all the examples listed to teach us. The God I worship is still God of the Bible and all things are possible!