Let's examine Revelation 20:4 yet again.

[Spiritual Israelite]

Answers like this come when he can't answer a question

True. And that happens often. I'm not willing to waste my time with his non-answers anymore.

 

[TribulationSigns]

If you feel you have some truth then why don't you share it ?

I do not think so. I already wrote many posts on the subject here so I won't repeat myself just for you. Go use the search feature find all my posts related to subject.

I have no idea at all what you believe or why except that apparently you disagree with me on these things for some reason.

Then use the search feature to get to know my position better. :)

As for me I rather marvel at the blindness of those who can't see there are things that were to the Jew FIRST, then the Gentile.

What did I ask you to do first? Quote that verse and check with context.

doesn't seem like a hard concept to grasp.

Really? Then quote the verse and demonstrate that you grasp the context.

The Lord was speaking to and dealing with Israel FIRST

So?

....shouldn't be that difficult to put ourselves in Israel's shoes back then and understand how Jesus and prophecy were speaking to them.

Frankly, I don’t think you understand this at all.

He and the prophets certainly prophesied of the tribulation and destruction to come to Israel...faithfully warning them.

Based on which Scriptures? Can you actually cite verses to support this, or is it just speculation and assumptions like everyone else’s? Surprise, surprise.

The Lord was (and is) always faithful to warn before sending judgment. Not just was the gospel to the Jew first, but also tribulation and wrath, as per the scripture I posted. But we need ears to hear/eyes to see....otherwise these things are hid.

Oh boy... (zip)...

 

[covenantee]

And I want to add, that it is dispensationalists who treat the events of 70 AD as a footnote rather than the fulfillment of much prophecy., including Jesus'. I am saying it is important that we treat it as important. And it certainly was "important" to Israel to whom it was prophesied and who had to live through it.

FYI Lizbeth, the man is a fanatical gnostic who hyperspiritualizes every word that he lays eyes on.

It's impossible to carry on a rational conversation with him.

 

[TribulationSigns]

FYI Lizbeth, the man is a fanatical gnostic who hyperspiritualizes every word that he lays eyes on.

It's impossible to carry on a rational conversation with him.

LOL.

Calling me a ‘fanatical gnostic’ says far more about your ignorance than about my teaching. My approach is Scripture-based spiritual discernment, not some mystical philosophy you clearly don’t understand. If your idea of a ‘rational conversation’ is name-calling instead of engaging the Bible, then I’ll save you the embarrassment—you’re not equipped for it.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

LOL.

Calling me a ‘fanatical gnostic’ says far more about your ignorance than about my teaching. My approach is Scripture-based spiritual discernment, not some mystical philosophy you clearly don’t understand. If your idea of a ‘rational conversation’ is name-calling instead of engaging the Bible, then I’ll save you the embarrassment—you’re not equipped for it.

You have no idea what "Scripture-based spiritual discernment" is. You think that entails spiritualizing as much of scripture as you possibly can. No, spiritual discernment requires being able to discern the difference between spiritual and physical text or between literal and figurative text. So, based on the proper understanding of what spiritual discernment actually is, you have been found very lacking in it.

 

[Wish-it]

Jesus returns in fire destroying all the wicked (The End) don't try to change God's clear words below

"Destroyed Them All" When The Son Of Man Is Revealed!

Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

Surely if one scripture appears to contradict an scripture, our job is to endeavor to understand why. Im sure that the answer is not to ignore what one of the scriptures states.

 

[Lizbeth]

I do not think so. I already wrote many posts on the subject here so I won't repeat myself just for you. Go use the search feature find all my posts related to subject.

I'm sorry you don't consider me to be worth the trouble.

Based on which Scriptures? Can you actually cite verses to support this, or is it just speculation and assumptions like everyone else’s? Surprise, surprise.

Should I respond to you in like manner and tell you to just basically go get lost and look up all my past posts yourself?

These eschatological things are not foundational beliefs, and it seems obvious that they are "hard to be understood"...we shouldn't all be bickering and snapping at each other about them, but only discussing and sharing what parts we have or believe we have. Think we need to humbly keep in mind that we all only know in part.....that is born out in observation as well. I can often see how people have some wonderful truth in some areas but are in error in other areas. I've needed the Lord to correct or tweek my understanding along the way, as much as anybody, and am still seeking truth and more correction as needed. The attitudes of certain people are often unchristian, so that makes me wonder what is the value of their supposed knowledge...what good is it doing them? Knowledge will pass away but love never will. Knowledge and understanding should be acting as stepping stones leading us to what?....just more and more knowledge to keep stuffing ourselves with, or shouldn't it be glorifying God and helping and leading us to be conformed to the image of Christ? What do you or I or anybody have that we didn't receive?

 

[Adventageous]

I see the Title of the thread is, "Let's examine Revelation 20:4 yet again", so I think I will begin there (in proper context, Rev. 20:1-15, &c.), though I have read some (not all) of the posts in this thread, and in so doing I would like to personally focus on the texts themselves. Would any care to join me in re-examining the text in its context with me? We can go slowly as needful, and come into agreement with the truth as written (Jhn. 17:17; Gen. 40:8) therein, for Revelation (a revealing) was not given to bring confusion:

Rev 1:3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.​

So, the revelation of Jesus Christ may be understood by His servants (Rev. 1:1 KJB). Who is willing to do this with me, in charity (1 Cor. 13)?

 

[David in NJ]

I'm sorry you don't consider me to be worth the trouble.


Should I respond to you in like manner and tell you to just basically go get lost and look up all my past posts yourself?

These eschatological things are not foundational beliefs, and it seems obvious that they are "hard to be understood"...we shouldn't all be bickering and snapping at each other about them, but only discussing and sharing what parts we have or believe we have. Think we need to humbly keep in mind that we all only know in part.....that is born out in observation as well. I can often see how people have some wonderful truth in some areas but are in error in other areas. I've needed the Lord to correct or tweek my understanding along the way, as much as anybody, and am still seeking truth and more correction as needed. The attitudes of certain people are often unchristian, so that makes me wonder what is the value of their supposed knowledge...what good is it doing them? Knowledge will pass away but love never will. Knowledge and understanding should be acting as stepping stones leading us to what?....just more and more knowledge to keep stuffing ourselves with, or shouldn't it be glorifying God and helping and leading us to be conformed to the image of Christ? What do you or I or anybody have that we didn't receive?

Happy New Year Sis,

Eschatology is Foundational Truth = and it Begins in Genesis

 

[TribulationSigns]

I'm sorry you don't consider me to be worth the trouble.

Guess using the search feature isn't worth your trouble.

Should I respond to you in like manner and tell you to just basically go get lost and look up all my past posts yourself?

I already did within this thread alone and found that you do not have a biblical case.

 

[Lizbeth]

Guess using the search feature isn't worth your trouble.



I already did within this thread alone and found that you do not have a biblical case.

My participation on the forum is limited for a few reasons, and I am seldom able to keep up.....I don't know who you are or what you believe. I have no idea whether it's worth my trouble to look you up or not. And no idea why you don't think my POV has a biblical case. Of course, you're perfectly free to disagree with me, but if you give me no reason as to why you disagree, then I wonder why you bothered to respond to my post to tell me you disagree....it seems fruitless. Well, that's the end of the conversation between you and me then I guess, have a nice evening.

 

[Lizbeth]

Happy New Year Sis,

Eschatology is Foundational Truth = and it Begins in Genesis

A blessed and happy New Year to you too brother.

As it was in the days of Noah, so shall it be at the coming of the Son of Man. I just think there are certain things beyond the foundational basics of the gospel that are not essential to salvation and that we shouldn't be divisive over.

 

[David in NJ]

A blessed and happy New Year to you too brother.

Thank You

I just think there are certain things beyond the foundational basics of the gospel that are not essential to salvation and that we shouldn't be divisive over.

and i AGREE

As it was in the days of Noah, so shall it be at the coming of the Son of Man.

AGREE = this is a "Foundational Truth from Genesis"

 

[Hiddenthings]

Whatever.

Hi David

Here is what is known about @quietthinker in all the dealings I've witnessed over the years.

• Only Quiet’s own thoughts and feelings seem to matter to him, which is why he posted what he did.
• Because he lacks discernment regarding the correct understanding of revelation, anything beyond his comfort zone is quickly dismissed, and he retreats into pontificating across the endless threads of his devoted admirers (SteVen).
• He will never "enter" the Word of God and rarely speaks to it even from a distance.
• He cannot sustain a conversation beyond a single reply before shutting it down with his very famous one liners "a slow train coming" and "If the shoe fits" a favorite of @St. SteVen when it gets tough he likes "Get over yourself" and "take a chill pill"
• I have often wondered whether, in private, they share these one-liners and then deploy them as part of some sick game.
• Because the Revelation speaks of coming judgements you will never see Quiet grasp these Divine realities as he believes everyone will share in God's divine nature and be saved.

In relation to your OP:

Rev 20:4 is equivalent to saying that they lived again (see v. 5). The Greek reads, “and they lived and reigned with the Anointed One,” which implies a resurrection to eternal life, followed by reigning with Christ during the millennium (Rev 5:9–10).

The following verse is emphatic this Millennial Period is still yet future.

 

[Hiddenthings]

@Davidpt

Verse 5 “But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished.”

This statement cannot refer to those who died before Christ’s coming, for vast multitudes of them will never rise from the grave (Ps 49:19–20; 88:5; Isa. 26:14; Eph. 2:12). Yet the passage before us indicates that a particular class will rise from the dead at the conclusion of Christ’s thousand-year reign.

Nor can it refer to the responsible wicked, since they will rise together with the righteous at Christ’s coming for judgment (Dan. 12:2; Matt. 13:49–50; 26:64; Luke 12:8–9; 13:24–30; Rom. 2:6–12, 16).

The “dead” mentioned in this verse, therefore, can only refer to those who die after Christ’s return, during his millennial reign. Scripture indicates that death will continue during the Millennium (Isa 65:20; Ezek 44:22).

The redeemed are described as “the firstfruits” (James 1:18), implying that they constitute only a portion of the total harvest, with the remainder gathered during Christ’s reign on the earth. The force of this statement appears to be that no further admission to immortality will occur until “the thousand years are finished.”

Thus, “the rest of the dead” refers to those who die during the Millennium.

 

[David in NJ]

@Davidpt

Verse 5 “But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished.”

This statement cannot refer to those who died before Christ’s coming, for vast multitudes of them will never rise from the grave (Ps 49:19–20; 88:5; Isa. 26:14; Eph. 2:12). Yet the passage before us indicates that a particular class will rise from the dead at the conclusion of Christ’s thousand-year reign.

Nor can it refer to the responsible wicked, since they will rise together with the righteous at Christ’s coming for judgment (Dan. 12:2; Matt. 13:49–50; 26:64; Luke 12:8–9; 13:24–30; Rom. 2:6–12, 16).

The “dead” mentioned in this verse, therefore, can only refer to those who die after Christ’s return, during his millennial reign. Scripture indicates that death will continue during the Millennium (Isa 65:20; Ezek 44:22).

The redeemed are described as “the firstfruits” (James 1:18), implying that they constitute only a portion of the total harvest, with the remainder gathered during Christ’s reign on the earth. The force of this statement appears to be that no further admission to immortality will occur until “the thousand years are finished.”

Thus, “the rest of the dead” refers to those who die during the Millennium.

To add to your scriptures on this would be:
1 Corinthians chapter 15
Revelation 20:14

 

[Adventageous]

I see the Title of the thread is, "Let's examine Revelation 20:4 yet again", so I think I will begin there (in proper context, Rev. 20:1-15, &c.), though I have read some (not all) of the posts in this thread, and in so doing I would like to personally focus on the texts themselves. Would any care to join me in re-examining the text in its context with me? We can go slowly as needful, and come into agreement with the truth as written (Jhn. 17:17; Gen. 40:8) therein, for Revelation (a revealing) was not given to bring confusion:

Rev 1:3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.​

So, the revelation of Jesus Christ may be understood by His servants (Rev. 1:1 KJB). Who is willing to do this with me, in charity (1 Cor. 13)?

Well, since no one has (yet) taken me up on the offer, I may just begin sharing a study, or may just leave all to their own, since the thread has gone afar from the OP and been reduced to character assassinations and personal jabs. Undecided as of this moment. I will let everyone know later.

 

[Hiddenthings]

Well, since no one has (yet) taken me up on the offer, I may just begin sharing a study, or may just leave all to their own, since the thread has gone afar from the OP and been reduced to character assassinations and personal jabs. Undecided as of this moment. I will let everyone know later.

Happy to work through it with you anytime!

 

[quietthinker]

Hi David

Here is what is known about @quietthinker in all the dealings I've witnessed over the years.

• Only Quiet’s own thoughts and feelings seem to matter to him, which is why he posted what he did.
• Because he lacks discernment regarding the correct understanding of revelation, anything beyond his comfort zone is quickly dismissed, and he retreats into pontificating across the endless threads of his devoted admirers (SteVen).
• He will never "enter" the Word of God and rarely speaks to it even from a distance.
• He cannot sustain a conversation beyond a single reply before shutting it down with his very famous one liners "a slow train coming" and "If the shoe fits" a favorite of @St. SteVen when it gets tough he likes "Get over yourself" and "take a chill pill"
• I have often wondered whether, in private, they share these one-liners and then deploy them as part of some sick game.
• Because the Revelation speaks of coming judgements you will never see Quiet grasp these Divine realities as he believes everyone will share in God's divine nature and be saved.

In relation to your OP:

Rev 20:4 is equivalent to saying that they lived again (see v. 5). The Greek reads, “and they lived and reigned with the Anointed One,” which implies a resurrection to eternal life, followed by reigning with Christ during the millennium (Rev 5:9–10).

The following verse is emphatic this Millennial Period is still yet future.

Your desperate need to speak poorly of Steven and myself, ie built your defaming case on lies is clearly an indication of the spirit which motivates you.

 

[Lizbeth]

Thank You


and i AGREE


AGREE = this is a "Foundational Truth from Genesis"

I suppose it depends on what one means by foundational. That the human race is sinful and that the Lord will return to ultimately judge for these things I agree is part of foundational truth. (As well as I believe the falling away is "as it was in the days of Noah" too....what should be a holy, separated and set apart church seated in heavenly places is mingling with the world.) But there is a lot of disagreement over certain details and aspects concerning the end.

There is further understanding that only comes with growth, and also the fact that there are different parts of the body and different people may have different parts of the truth concerning these things, since we only know in part. I don't understand why people take it so personally and resort to personal insults because others don't see everything their way when it comes to things that are hard to be understood. I don't consider that any of us have arrived at a place of knowing all things, though some seem to think they have.