LIMITED ATONEMENT: US vs THEM (the L of TULIP)

[Rightglory]

The Holy Spirit has been successful! What are you talking about

Yes, He certainly has. So, why do you not acknowledge this and throw out the false teaching of Limited Atonement?

 

[Enoch111]

“Calvinism limits the atonement of Christ because WE say Christ did not die to bring Sanctification to all men.”

That makes no sense at all. Christ died for the sins of the whole world. But only those who obey the Gospel are JUSTIFIED by grace through faith. Sanctification is a separate issue.

 

[brightfame52]

Yes, He certainly has. So, why do you not acknowledge this and throw out the false teaching of Limited Atonement?

Again, Limited Atonement, as well as the rest of the Truths defined by TULIP are Gospel Truths ! They were are Truths inspired by the Holy Ghost in scripture.

 

[Rightglory]

t

Again, Limited Atonement, as well as the rest of the Truths defined by TULIP are Gospel Truths ! They were are Truths inspired by the Holy Ghost in scripture.

They were not inspired by the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit gave us a complete Gospel, Jude 3 once in the beginning. The Holy Spirit does not give additional gospel to individual men over time. II Pet 1:20. That Gospel was preserved by the Holy Spirit within the Body of Christ, the Church. I Tim 3:15.
It might be wise to study the early Church Fathers to find out what they believed then, the same as the Church believes today.

 

[brightfame52]

t

They were not inspired by the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit gave us a complete Gospel, Jude 3 once in the beginning. The Holy Spirit does not give additional gospel to individual men over time. II Pet 1:20. That Gospel was preserved by the Holy Spirit within the Body of Christ, the Church. I Tim 3:15.
It might be wise to study the early Church Fathers to find out what they believed then, the same as the Church believes today.

Yes they were, they [TULIP] are found in the scriptures.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

They mean or do the same thing. Propitiation is "covering for sin" the sacrifice is what propitiates sin or reconciles mankind/world to God. This is what Christ did for the world/mankind.

No they are different. Propitiation is the acceptable scarifice while NT atonement is a removal of sin.

It is called believe/belief in Christ and what He did for us, which scripture calls, justification by faith. Which does not save us either as you are using the word. We are being saved through that faith which entails a lot of work, called the law of faith. A dead faith is no faith.

Works never have nor ever will save us. Good works are the result of us being saved.

All men receive the atonement. Christ defeated death and all men will be raised in the last day to life. He performed a sacrifice for sin which is available to all men. Christ is our High Priest now, and when we confess our sin He is able and willing to forgive our sins. That is an ongoing event in the life of a believer.
Limited atonement is a direct denial of the Incarnation of Christ. Also, you seem to dismiss or ignore the primary purpose of Christ's work which is defeating death.

YOu are so wrong! All men do not receive the atonement. Only those who place their trust in the death and resurrection of jesus as the only acceptable payment for their sin receive the atonement. It is available to all but all do not receive it.

I do not deny Jesus defeated death. all men are now immortal. some will live forever in heaven on earth and others will live in the lake of fire for eternity.

More correctly stated is Christ saved the world from death and the power of sin. Each individual is saved through one's faith in God.

Jesus potentially saved all men from the power of sin. In order for that to happen one must trust in HIs death alone as payment for their sin.

 

[brightfame52]

Ronald N

Jesus potentially saved all men from the power of sin. In order for that to happen one must trust in HIs death alone as payment for their sin.

Wow so you see Christ Death as only providing a potential for saving them He died for, friend thats not Faith in Christ as Saviour, but unbelief.

 

[Behold]

WE do not believe that Jesus made any atonement for those that are damned.

What you posted is the Cross Denying demonic aspect of Calvinism.

You limited (denied) God's Grace, that is the Cross of Christ= by denying It's access to everyone.
This is the heart of Calvin's demonic Teaching. "doctrine of Devils', as only the Devil would want the Cross offered, in a Limited fashion, as by doing that, the Blood Atonement is being changed, denied, subverted and perverted.

Jesus said, "if I be lifted up (on the Cross), i will draw ALL"

John said..... "For God so loved the WORLD (everyone) that He Gave Jesus". to them all, on the Cross.

The Devil says...."no you didn't Jesus.... Your Cross is NOT offered to ALL, to the WORLD...".
And John Calvin wrote the Theology that teaches the Devil's lie.

 

[brightfame52]

What you posted is the Cross Denying demonic aspect of Calvinism.

You limited (denied) God's Grace, that is the Cross of Christ= by denying It's access to everyone.
This is the heart of Calvin's demonic Teaching. "doctrine of Devils', as only the Devil would want the Cross offered, in a Limited fashion, as by doing that, the Blood Atonement is being changed, denied, subverted and perverted.

Jesus said, "if I be lifted up (on the Cross), i will draw ALL"

John said..... "For God so loved the WORLD (everyone) that He Gave Jesus". to them all, on the Cross.

The Devil says...."no you didn't Jesus.... Your Cross is NOT offered to ALL, to the WORLD...".
And John Calvin wrote the Theology that teaches the Devil's lie.

Whats demonic is to imply that Christs Death didnt save them He died for, thats unbelief !

 

[Behold]

Whats demonic is to imply that Christs Death didnt save them He died for, thats unbelief !

Even Calvin doesn't teach that one.
So, im not sure who does..
Do you?

 

[brightfame52]

Even Calvin doesn't teach that one.
So, im not sure who does..
Do you?

Thats unbelief. True Faith believes in Christ that He saved them by dying for and putting away your sins, however you dont believe that, so its unbelief!

 

[Behold]

Thats unbelief. True Faith believes in Christ that He saved them by dying for and putting away your sins, however you dont believe that, so its unbelief!

Its helpful for you, if you pay attention to what i post, Brightframe52

Listen...

Paul teaches this..

"God hath made Jesus to BE sin for us"

"Jesus is the ONE TIME...... ETERNAL .. Sacrifice for sin".

Where?

= ON THE CROSS....... so, on the Cross........Jesus said...>"it is finished"......and that is the Blood Atonement.......that is Christ's eternal sacrifice for the sin of the world.

John 3:16=17

2 Corinthians 5:19

Every BELIEVER has received Christ's ATONEMENT, = Christ's SACRIFICE for all their SIN.
This is : REDEMPTION, as proven by being : Born again.

 

[brightfame52]

Its helpful for you, if you pay attention to what i post, Brightframe52

Listen...

Paul teaches this..

"God hath made Jesus to BE sin for us"

"Jesus is the ONE TIME...... ETERNAL .. Sacrifice for sin".

Where?

= ON THE CROSS....... so, on the Cross........Jesus said...>"it is finished"......and that is the Blood Atonement.......that is Christ sacrifice for the sin of the world.

2 Corinthians 5:19

Every BELIEVER has received Christ's payment, Christ's SACRIFICE for all their SIN.
This is : REDEMPTION, as proven by being : Born again.

I mean you can quote scripture till dooms day, you still in unbelief friend.

 

[Behold]

I mean you can quote scripture till dooms day, you still in unbelief friend.

Why would my "friend" lie about me on a "christian forum"?
Isn't that the devil's work?

You need to think about that , before you do it again., without posting a single quote of mine, brightframe52

 

[Behold]

God does not choose anyone to be saved.

What God did was offer the Cross of Christ to the world as "The Gift of Salvation".
All that believe, IN Jesus, shall be saved.

Jesus said..>"ALL ALL that believe in me, i give unto them eternal life, and they shall never perish."""

Jesus said..>"if i be lifted up (on the Cross) i will DRAW ALL ...to me"

ALL, means......."all". But not to John Calvin.

So, what was Calvin's heresy?..
Why was he so deceived and ended up creating a Theology, that rejects Grace, and denies the Cross?

Calvin, was probably not born again.... IMO
And he read the bible, like it was a dictionary, and put verses together in his spiritual darkness..., never discerning them, or "rightly dividing" them.
Also, Calvin wanted to be famous. He wanted to be known in the history books as a "church father".
He ended up denying the Cross and creating a theology that has twisted much of Christianity into his cult.

Calvinist's believe that Calvinism is Christianity, as if this wicked deceiver wrote the NT.

How did he become so confused about the Cross, Grace, and God's Salvation?
It was one thing, only.
This....
Calvin could not comprehend that God knowing everything that is going to happen, (Foreknowledge) is NOT the same thing as God causing it all to happen.
So, Calvin invented a "doctrine of devils'... Hebrews 13:9...... that subverts God's Omnipotent "Foreknowledge" into "pre-destined" cultism, as if they are the same.
They are absolutely not .

See that?
Calvin could never understand this, so he created a Cross denying Grace insulting Theology that has God choosing some to go to hell before they are even born.
And that is intense Cross rejecting Heresy.

 

[brightfame52]

Why would my "friend" lie about me on a "christian forum"?
Isn't that the devil's work?

You need to think about that , before you do it again., without posting a single quote of mine, brightframe52

Why am I lying ? You admit Christ died for all humanity and yet all humanity wont be saved, so consequently you dont believe Christs death in and of itself saved nobody He died for, that's unbelief all day.

 

[Behold]

This Believer you'll read about below, wasn't a Calvinist.
He was just a believer, who didn't agree with the Theological concept of the Trinity.
There are some of those on this forum.
If Calvin was here, he'd try to have you murdered for your "heresy", exactly as he was a part of the murder of this Believer.

That's John Calvin.
-
Michael Servetus
( 29 September 1509 or 1511 – 27 October 1553) was a Spanish theologian, physician, cartographer and Renaissance humanist. He was the first European to correctly describe the function of pulmonary circulation, as discussed in Christianismi Restitutio (1553). He was a polymath versed in many sciences: mathematics, astronomy and meteorology, geography, human anatomy, medicine and pharmacology, as well as jurisprudence, translation, poetry and the scholarly study of the Bible in its original languages.

He is renowned in the history of several of these fields, particularly medicine. He participated in the Protestant Reformation, and later rejected the Trinity doctrine and mainstream Catholic Christology. After being condemned by Catholic authorities in France,

Michael Servetus fled to CALVINIST GENEVA, where he was denounced by John Calvin and BURNED ALIVE for "heresy", by order of consenting Calvin and the Calvinist Geneva Council.


Michael Servetus

 

[Rightglory]

No they are different. Propitiation is the acceptable scarifice while NT atonement is a removal of sin.

Propitiation means a covering of sin. Atonement is what Christ did on the Cross with that sacrifice which was to reconcile the world back to God. Col 1:20. II Cor 5:19, I John 2:2. There was no removal of sin on/from the Cross or even by His resurrection. The sacrifice was necessary for Christ as our High Priest to forgive sins when individuals repent/believe/confess their sins.
It would be illogical as well as unscriptural to say Christ died for the sins of the world, meaning He took/removed all the sins of the world. What would that even mean.

Works never have nor ever will save us. Good works are the result of us being saved.

Never stated they would. However, they are not the result of we being saved. A person who believes is not saved in this life. He has assurance that he will be saved IF one remains faithful. We are on a journey in a relationship with Christ. He requires a lot for that commitment. They are called works of faith. Our journey is a mutual relationship between God and man. God is not the one who can become unfaithful in His promises, but man can and does. Scripture has many examples of believers losing faith and forfeit their eternal inheritance being reserved for them. I Pet 1:3-5.

YOu are so wrong! All men do not receive the atonement. Only those who place their trust in the death and resurrection of jesus as the only acceptable payment for their sin receive the atonement. It is available to all but all do not receive it.

Scripture disagrees with you, You agree with the following, but somehow you think what Christ did is somehow divided between two different classes of people when it pertains to the sacrifice.
The primary work of atonement for Christ was overcoming the curse of death to the world. He did that by being Incarnated, taking on our human nature, and raised that human nature to life. All men will be raised immortal and incorruptible in the last day, I Cor 15:53.

I do not deny Jesus defeated death. all men are now immortal. some will live forever in heaven on earth and others will live in the lake of fire for eternity.

Jesus potentially saved all men from the power of sin. In order for that to happen one must trust in HIs death alone as payment for their sin.

Secondly, the sacrifice was for all sin, period. There is no division, or separation. That sacrifice was universal, It was completed, finished.
It is available for all men. There is no potential here, all men have been freed from the power of sin. What is the power of sin? Separation from God, in this life and for eternity if one does not believe, repent, confess one's sin. Forgiving sin is what Christ does and can do as our High Priest because He was the perfect, one-time sacrifice for that sin. He did not remove sin from the Cross.

 

[Rightglory]

Whats demonic is to imply that Christs Death didnt save them He died for, thats unbelief !

Actually, He died for every human being and His resurrection gave life to all men.
He also saved every single human being from the power of sin.
How universal is that. He saved every human being from death and the power of sin.
You have a twisted concept of who Christ actually is and what He actually accomplished. You want Him to do something impossible based on His Incarnation and sacrifice for sin. You have no understanding of the atonement.
You think that He created believers from the Cross to protect another false theory of the election of believers. Theologically that would be meaningless if your theory of election was actually scriptural. You are elect from the foundation of the world, why would you need saving of anything. Or are you saying that God permitted His elect to fall away for a time so they could be saved?

 

[brightfame52]

This Believer you'll read about below, wasn't a Calvinist.
He was just a believer, who didn't agree with the Theological concept of the Trinity.
There are some of those on this forum.
If Calvin was here, he'd try to have you murdered for your "heresy", exactly as he was a part of the murder of this Believer.

That's John Calvin.
-
Michael Servetus
( 29 September 1509 or 1511 – 27 October 1553) was a Spanish theologian, physician, cartographer and Renaissance humanist. He was the first European to correctly describe the function of pulmonary circulation, as discussed in Christianismi Restitutio (1553). He was a polymath versed in many sciences: mathematics, astronomy and meteorology, geography, human anatomy, medicine and pharmacology, as well as jurisprudence, translation, poetry and the scholarly study of the Bible in its original languages.

He is renowned in the history of several of these fields, particularly medicine. He participated in the Protestant Reformation, and later rejected the Trinity doctrine and mainstream Catholic Christology. After being condemned by Catholic authorities in France,

Michael Servetus fled to CALVINIST GENEVA, where he was denounced by John Calvin and BURNED ALIVE for "heresy", by order of consenting Calvin and the Calvinist Geneva Council.


Michael Servetus

The Trinity is also a Gospel Truth, as well as the Truths of Tulip