LIMITED ATONEMENT: US vs THEM (the L of TULIP)

[brightfame52]

Actually, He died for every human being and His resurrection gave life to all men.
He also saved every single human being from the power of sin.
How universal is that. He saved every human being from death and the power of sin.
You have a twisted concept of who Christ actually is and what He actually accomplished. You want Him to do something impossible based on His Incarnation and sacrifice for sin. You have no understanding of the atonement.
You think that He created believers from the Cross to protect another false theory of the election of believers. Theologically that would be meaningless if your theory of election was actually scriptural. You are elect from the foundation of the world, why would you need saving of anything. Or are you saying that God permitted His elect to fall away for a time so they could be saved?

Did He save every individual from the penalty of sin ? Did He save every individual from the second death spoken of here Rev 21:8


But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

 

[Behold]

The Trinity is also a Gospel Truth, as well as the Truths of Tulip

And MURDER is not allowed., but that didnt stop John Calvin from helping to BURN a Christian.

You should pick another Idol.
He's a fail.

 

[Behold]

God's foreknowledge knows what is to come, as = what will happen next., regarding everything that has ever happened or will happen next.

This does not mean God causes it...it only means that God knows the beginning from the end of all things, all situations.
= Foreknowledge.

John Calvin could never understand this at all, and created a demonic theology that has God choosing some for hell and creating evil that breaks all the Law and Commandments.

Now, God, does not exist in TIME, as God has no beginning and no end.... but we do exist in time as God created us to exist within a time frame that starts and will stop.....and this Earth and much that is written in the Bible, is created to happen "in Time", and that is happening all the time.

TIME = where we exist as spiritual beings in an Earth Suit.... has a Beginning, and an Ending. Hebrews 9:27 suggests that your death has an appointed time.

God's Foreknowledge... saw all that would happen when He Created Lucifer and Man, knowing that Lucifer would end up on the Earth and so would Adam.
God's Foreknowledge, prepared for the eventual fall of man, by taking full responsibility for the fall of man. And that is the CROSS of CHRIST.
God knowing that Adam would rebel, is not God causing Adam to rebel. God knowing that Satan was a murderer from the beginning and the Father of Lies is not God causing Him to be so.
God knowing you would be reading this Thread and deciding what you think about it, is your free will choice, and not God causing you to do it.

 

[Behold]

Jesus is : 1 Timothy 3:16. on the Cross, dying for the sin of the world........taking full responsibility for Creation, and the Fall.
This is : REDEMPTION.... .Salvation.
This does not mean that God caused the fall.......it means that God created man, and understood that giving man divine free will (We are made in God's image).... would lead to a situation that He would have to resolved as Jesus on the Cross.
God knew from the beginning ...FOREKNOWLEDGE..... that He would send His Only Begotten Son to die on the Cross to resolve the fall of us all., so, The Word became one of us to save all of us who will come to the Cross and receive "the Gift of Salvation".

Before you were born, God knew you would be born. But God didnt cause your parent to produce you, Yet He KNEW you would arrive, and He KNEW if you are going to trust in Christ or not. = Foreknowledge. Which is to know all= BEFORE it happens.

Now, the entire bible, is God's account of all of that is happening, and including what is Yet to come.

 

[Behold]

Why is the bible here?
To show you The Love of God, The Righteousness of God, the Omnipotence of God and the Beautiful Salvation of God that is The Cross of Christ.
And , to prove God's existence based on the Bible showing you what is going to happen before you lived and what will happen next, after you are gone from this earth.
The Holy Bible is the only book that can do this, perfectly.

See all that?
That is PROPHECY......and all of God Foreknowledge as Prophecy.... is actually the pages of the Bible coming to pass, and God did it this way to Prove the Truth of His word..... and prove His Eternal Existence., = and give us a way to go to heaven, as this WAY is found in the Bible. John 14:6

John 14:6 : is the only "Way" to heaven. And this is Jesus on the Cross, who is the Gift of God, given to the World...." To ALL who will come".

 

[brightfame52]

And MURDER is not allowed., but that didnt stop John Calvin from helping to BURN a Christian.

You should pick another Idol.
He's a fail.

You making light and scoffing sacred truth my friend.

 

[Behold]

You making light and scoffing sacred truth my friend.

Calvin and his teaching is sacred only to Calvinist's.

You've confused Christianity, with Calvinism, as all Calvinist do this..... all., as that is how you spot them.

To God, Calvin's denial of the Universal Gift of the Cross as defined by Salvation and Jesus, is something different than you understand.

 

[brightfame52]

Calvin and his teaching is sacred only to Calvinist's.

You've confused Christianity, with Calvinism, as all Calvinist do this..... all., as that is how you spot them.

To God, Calvin's denial of the Universal Gift of the Cross as defined by Salvation and Jesus, is something different than you understand.

Yes the Truths of Tulip found in scripture are sacred, you scoffing them wont help you or change it.

 

[Rightglory]

Did He save every individual from the penalty of sin ? Did He save every individual from the second death spoken of here Rev 21:8

Man determines by his choice whether he will suffer the second death. Christ does not determine the eternal abode of anyone.

But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

 

[brightfame52]

Man determines by his choice whether he will suffer the second death. Christ does not determine the eternal abode of anyone.

Did He save every individual from the penalty of sin ?

 

[brightfame52]

rightglory

Man determines by his choice whether he will suffer the second death. Christ does not determine the eternal abode of anyone.

You crown man as his own saviour !

 

[Behold]

Did He save every individual from the penalty of sin ?

2 Corinthians 5:19

 

[Rightglory]

Did He save every individual from the penalty of sin ?

You are confusing penalty with power. Christ did not remove the penalty of sin. Sin, unbelief which are acts of man and if not forgiven will lead to eternal separation from God.

rightglory



You crown man as his own saviour !

Quite the contrary. Without Christ no one would be saved. We would all be dissolved by permanent death, no eternity. However God created man with an independent will. God gives man the freedom to love Him or despise Him. There are consequences for each choice. Man makes that choice. If man desires to be saved, Christ does the saving.

There are things man cannot do. He can not give himself life. Nor can he be his own sacrifice for sin. This is why we needed Christ to overcolme what man cannot. However, respective of man's relationship to God, it is all about what man does vis-a-vie a choice. If one chooses life, then he will work with God toward his salvation in a mutual relationship of love and commitment to Him.

 

[brightfame52]

2 Corinthians 5:19

okay and ?

 

[brightfame52]

rightglory

You are confusing penalty with power. Christ did not remove the penalty of sin. Sin, unbelief which are acts of man and if not forgiven will lead to eternal separation from God.

So you dont believe He saved everyone from the penalty of sin, which is death Rom 6:23

23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

You really dont believe Christ saved from the power of sin because thats what unbelief is. Men cant believe in Christ because they are under the power of sin.

Also, People for whom Christ died, are forgiven of all sins, which unbelief is one of them.

So what it boils down to, you dont believe in Christ at all, you are a unbeliever who believes in man as his own saviour !

 

[Rightglory]

rightglory



So you dont believe He saved everyone from the penalty of sin, which is death Rom 6:23

23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

The very verse you cite tells you He did not save anyone from the penalty of sin. Man chooses whether he will suffer the penalty of sin. Those that believe will not be condemned, those that believe not will be condemned.

You really dont believe Christ saved from the power of sin because thats what unbelief is. Men cant believe in Christ because they are under the power of sin.

Here is where you err. All men have been saved from the power of sin. Man now has a choice again, Those that believe can have their sins forgiven, those that don't will be condemned for their sins. It is not very hard to understand.

Also, People for whom Christ died, are forgiven of all sins, which unbelief is one of them.

well, if that were true, then every human being would have had their sins forgiven. Christ died for every human being. H tasted death for all men Heb 2:9, He is the Savior of the world, I John 4:14. He reconciled all things in this world, Col 1:20. and many others.

So what it boils down to, you dont believe in Christ at all, you are a unbeliever who believes in man as his own saviour !

That is your false assertion based on a wholly unscriptural view of atonement. It actually denies the Incarnated Christ.

 

[Behold]

okay and ?

Notice "peoples".

that God was reconciling the WORLD to himself in Christ, not counting PEOPLE's sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation.

New Living Translation
For God was in Christ, reconciling the WORLD to himself, no longer counting People's sins against them. And he gave us this wonderful message of reconciliation.

Why does that matter?
Because "peoples" is "the world" and "all".

Calvin denies this and says that the Cross is only for the "ELECT"., not the 'peoples" and the "world".

 

[brightfame52]

The very verse you cite tells you He did not save anyone from the penalty of sin. Man chooses whether he will suffer the penalty of sin. Those that believe will not be condemned, those that believe not will be condemned.

Here is where you err. All men have been saved from the power of sin. Man now has a choice again, Those that believe can have their sins forgiven, those that don't will be condemned for their sins. It is not very hard to understand.

well, if that were true, then every human being would have had their sins forgiven. Christ died for every human being. H tasted death for all men Heb 2:9, He is the Savior of the world, I John 4:14. He reconciled all things in this world, Col 1:20. and many others.

That is your false assertion based on a wholly unscriptural view of atonement. It actually denies the Incarnated Christ.

The reason why some people are saved from the power of sin, is because Christ saved them from the penalty of sin. One cant be saved from the power of sin and yet not saved from the penalty of sin. The penalty of sin is death, death is a power. Rom 6:23

23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

 

[brightfame52]

Notice "peoples".

that God was reconciling the WORLD to himself in Christ, not counting PEOPLE's sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation.

New Living Translation
For God was in Christ, reconciling the WORLD to himself, no longer counting People's sins against them. And he gave us this wonderful message of reconciliation.

Why does that matter?
Because "peoples" is "the world" and "all".

Calvin denies this and says that the Cross is only for the "ELECT"., not the 'peoples" and the "world".

That world is saved, no sins charged to it. So thats the elect world, since the non elect world is condemned 1 Cor 11:32

32 But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.

 

[Behold]

That world is saved, no sins charged to it. So thats the elect world, since the non elect world is condemned 1 Cor 11:32

32 But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.

"for God so loved the world, that He gave".......What?

The Cross = to the World, not to "calvin's nonsense, pre-destined".

Also, the born again exist "in Christ".... Romans 8:1. """"Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus".

God can't "condemn" those who are "in Christ" as they have already "passed FROM DEATH, to Life"..... 1 John 3:14

That is the "born again". 'new Creation". "in Christ'.