Limited Atonement VS Universal Atonement

[Nancy]

Still resisting the truth. The more you resist it, the less light you will have.

The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world. (John 1:29)

My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.(1 John 2:2)

God made it too simple for the "learned"?

 

[Dave L]

Still resisting the truth. The more you resist it, the less light you will have.

The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world. (John 1:29)

My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.(1 John 2:2)

World = gentiles and Jews combined. Not each person.

“Although Jesus had performed so many miraculous signs before them, they still refused to believe in him, so that the word of Isaiah the prophet would be fulfilled. He said, “Lord, who has believed our message, and to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?”For this reason they could not believe, because again Isaiah said, “He has blinded their eyes and hardened their heart, so that they would not see with their eyes and understand with their heart, and turn to me, and I would heal them.”” (John 12:37–40)

 

[BreadOfLife]

Calvin did not teach limited Atonement. It is a bible doctrine that complies with salvation by grace. Universal atonement = salvation by works.

WRONG.

Limited Atonement is the “L” in Calvin’s “TULIP”.
He absolutely taught it – and it’s a FALSE and unbiblical doctrine.

I suggest you look up 5-Point Calvinism . . .

 

[Marymog]

Calvin did not teach limited Atonement. It is a bible doctrine that complies with salvation by grace. Universal atonement = salvation by works.

Hi Dave,

Calvin would disagree with you: The Five Points of Calvinism, TULIP

It is part of his well known TULIP teaching.

Mary

 

[Enoch111]

World = gentiles and Jews combined. Not each person.

More absurdity. Of course world = Jews + Gentiles = ALL MANKIND

 

[BreadOfLife]

Here's how it works. The gospel announces salvation to believers. Whosoever believes has eternal life. If you believe this, it is evidence God saved you.

But universal atonement does not save anyone, else all will be saved in the end. And we know this is not true. So in order to trigger such an atonement to work in your behalf, you must do or think something necessary to make it work. So you turn the simple gospel into law that rewards salvation thorough obedience. It's not only a false gospel but it makes you the savior and not Christ.

WRONG again.

Simply “believing” is NOT a sign of salvation. It simply marks that you have been given the grace to believe – which is the FIRST STEP toward salvation.
Salvation requires true faith – and True Faith = Belief + Obedience.

James tells us in NO uncertain terms:

James 2:19
You believe that God is one. You do well. Even the DEMONS believe that and tremble.

If ALL you do is “believe” in God and do not ACT upon it – you’re NO better off than the demons . . .

 

[Dave L]

WRONG again.

Simply “believing” is NOT a sign of salvation. It simply marks that you have been given the grace to believe – which is the FIRST STEP toward salvation.
Salvation requires true faith – and True Faith = Belief + Obedience.

James tells us in NO uncertain terms:

James 2:19
You believe that God is one. You do well. Even the DEMONS believe that and tremble.

If ALL you do is “believe” in God and do not ACT upon it – you’re NO better off than the demons . . .

You must have the Holy Spirit before true faith is possible.
“But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,” (Galatians 5:22)

 

[BreadOfLife]

You must have the Holy Spirit before true faith is possible.
“But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,” (Galatians 5:22)

Absolutely.

However - YOUR asssertion that belief = salvation is Biblically unsound.

 

[justbyfaith]

Human faith is not biblical faith.

So what is your point in saying this?

Absolutely.

However - YOUR asssertion that belief = salvation is Biblically unsound.

The epitome of what the Bible teaches is that we are saved by grace through faith.

 

[Dave L]

So what is your point in saying this?



The epitome of what the Bible teaches is that we are saved by grace through faith.

Faith is a gift from God, not a gift from you to God.

 

[justbyfaith]

Faith is a gift from God, not a gift from you to God.

It is our response to His word in our lives. The same heat that melts the wax hardens the clay.

 

[Nancy]

It is our response to His word in our lives. The same heat that melts the wax hardens the clay.

Love that saying.
And to David L. Faith comes by hearing the word of God Romans 10:17 "So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God." And then there is Romans 10:14
"How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher"?

 

[OzSpen]

If Christ died for all and all are not saved, his death didn't save anyone.

False again.

1 John 2:2 states, 'He Himself [Jesus the Righteous One] is the propitiation for our sins, and not only for ours, but also for those of the whole world' (HCSB).

Jesus appeases the wrath of God (propitiates) the sins 'of the whole world'.

Please tell me how this verse refutes your position.

Oz

 

[OzSpen]

Universal atonement does not save anyone.

I didn't say that.

 

[OzSpen]

Universal atonement only makes salvation possible for the self-righteous. Which of course means nobody is saved because of it.

Please provide biblical evidence for these statements. This is coming out of your mind but not with demonstrated biblical evidence.

 

[OzSpen]

Human faith is not biblical faith.

What faith did the Philippian jailer and his household have in Acts 16:31?

 

[OzSpen]

“But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,” (Galatians 5:22) God must give you the Holy Spirit before you can believe. He gives it only to those for whom Christ died.

“But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.” (John 10:26)

“I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.” (John 10:11)

The Greek word for 'faith' in Gal 5:22 means 'faithfulness' as a fruit of the Spirit. The fruit are what grows after salvation. Faith is what happens at salvation (Mk 11:22; Acts 16:31).

 

[OzSpen]

This shows you do not yet understand salvation. Jesus paid for all of the sins of those who want salvation. He did not pay for the sins of those who do not want salvation, but love their sins more than him.

Not one biblical reference to support your opinions. How come? Don't you believe the Bible supports your views?

 

[Taken]

I used to believe Christ's atonement was for everyone. But didn't save anyone unless they met the conditions that triggered it in their behalf. So, in my case the condition was faith. So I trusted in my faith to trigger the atonement and make it work for me. I also believed if I stopped believing, I would perish.

Then I stumbled on Limited Atonement in taught in scripture. And everything changed. I realized that my faith was a result of Jesus paying for my sins on the cross. And had he not, I would not be able to believe. So I rejoiced seeing my faith as a gift God only gives to those for whom Christ died.

I stopped trying to lift myself over the fence by grabbing my ankles by conjuring up faith, and delighted knowing I could not doubt even if I somehow wanted to.

But I know, Jesus paid for the sins of all who want salvation through him, and persevere in it, but he didn't die for the many who do not want salvation by him. But love their sin more than God.

Jesus offered His Body/flesh for the LIFE of the World.

No need to conjour up a confusion of some, for all, not for all.

Salvation is an OFFERING FOR ALL.

An OFFERING...

ALL men who choose to ACCEPT the Lords "OFFERING" have to REACH OUT, Accept it, Take it.....Before they "Possess it".

 

[quietthinker]

I used to believe Christ's atonement was for everyone. But didn't save anyone unless they met the conditions that triggered it in their behalf. So, in my case the condition was faith. So I trusted in my faith to trigger the atonement and make it work for me. I also believed if I stopped believing, I would perish.

Then I stumbled on Limited Atonement in taught in scripture. And everything changed. I realized that my faith was a result of Jesus paying for my sins on the cross. And had he not, I would not be able to believe. So I rejoiced seeing my faith as a gift God only gives to those for whom Christ died.

I stopped trying to lift myself over the fence by grabbing my ankles by conjuring up faith, and delighted knowing I could not doubt even if I somehow wanted to.

But I know, Jesus paid for the sins of all who want salvation through him, and persevere in it, but he didn't die for the many who do not want salvation by him. But love their sin more than God.

The message, the good news to go out to the world is that Jesus has died for your sins. Yes, its the message the world considers foolish because it doesn't have the sound of sophistication, it requires no theological approval from anybody.
The Sprit accompanies this message. It takes what men consider foolish and saves those who believe it. Does this mean there is no more to learn? of course not, but it does put mans pride in its place by taking man's sophistication, his high minded theological angles and his clever arguments and exposes them for what they are.....foolishness