Logical reason to believe in God

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Johann

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man, as long as you believe that Yah needed a sacrifice to make you ok with Him, go with that!

and i dunno, would a rabbi admit that Christ died for our sins?
...no, a rabbit would not believe that. Is that how you believe?
blessings
J.
 

Johann

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Thank you for the reply and advice.
Thank you for the reply and advice.
Stay away from Calvinists? Closest thing to demonic teachings?!>Why? Since they (the Calvinists) expose your hypocritical profession of faith?
Don't like the doctrine of election?
What happened to dokimazete ta pneumata?
You in "love God offend none"...you do realize that is unbiblical
Think I will go to the Theology forum discussions

Blessings
J.
 
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farouk

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Do you know what Christ's death accomplishes and can you answer it for me?
@Jennifer Rogers

Here is a passage from Hebrews chapter 1:1-4:

"God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,

2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:

4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they."


Philippians 2.5-11:

"Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:

6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:

10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;

11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father."


Ephesians 1.15-23:

"Wherefore I also, after I heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus, and love unto all the saints,

16 Cease not to give thanks for you, making mention of you in my prayers;

17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:

18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,

19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,

20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,

21 Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:

22 And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,

23 Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all."


Romans 5.6-10:

"For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.

7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die.

8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him
.

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life."


Romans 8.10-18:

"And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.

13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.

16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us."
 
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Jennifer Rogers

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@Jennifer Rogers

Here is a passage from Hebrews chapter 1:1-4:

"God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,

2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:

4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they."


Philippians 2.5-11:

"Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:

6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:

10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;

11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father."


Ephesians 1.15-23:

"Wherefore I also, after I heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus, and love unto all the saints,

16 Cease not to give thanks for you, making mention of you in my prayers;

17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:

18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,

19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,

20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,

21 Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:

22 And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,

23 Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all."


Romans 5.6-10:

"For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.

7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die.

8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him
.

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life."


Romans 8.10-18:

"And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.

13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.

16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us."
Oh! Thank you :D
 
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BarneyFife

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Stay away from Calvinists? Closest thing to demonic teachings?!>Why? Since they (the Calvinists) expose your hypocritical profession of faith?
Don't like the doctrine of election?
What happened to dokimazete ta pneumata?
You in "love God offend none"...you do realize that is unbiblical
Think I will go to the Theology forum discussions

Blessings
J.
Maybe I'm missing something but you seem to be quoting and upbraiding @Jennifer Rogers for something Grailhunter said¿ o_O
 

Cristo Rei

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If there was a logical explanation for God then we wouldn't require faith and everyone would believe in God.

One reason why atheists exist is because they cannot prove Gods existance using logical and/or scientific methods.

In fact it's a logical fallacy to both claim and reject the existence of God.

Knowing God is done spiritually not logically

When I was an atheist/agnostic I reached this conclusion through logic. "God might exist".
The rest of my journey required spiritual thinking

That's just my opinion anyway.
 
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Jennifer Rogers

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If there was a logical explanation for God then we wouldn't require faith and everyone would believe in God.

One reason why atheists exist is because they cannot prove Gods existance using logical and/or scientific methods.

In fact it's a logical fallacy to both claim and reject the existence of God.

Knowing God is done spiritually not logically

When I was an atheist/agnostic I reached this conclusion through logic. "God might exist".
The rest of my journey required spiritual thinking

That's just my opinion anyway.
Yes, thank you for the answer. Blessing!
 
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Johann

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We are here to discuss, so it is inevitable that we will the same opinion or do not have the same opinion. Hope you won't misunderstand. God bless you. Amen.
Hi @Jennifer Rogers
Barney is concerned that I was upbraiding you re my post on Calvinism.
My reply was to someone else, not you Lol!
Keep up the good work for Christ and His glory together with all the other saints
Shalom achot (sister)
Let there be shalom bayis (family peace) also in the kehillah.
Yours in Mashiach יהושׁוּע Y'howshuwa
Johann
 
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BarneyFife

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Do you know what Christ's death accomplishes and can you answer it for me?

Ever since I first spotted this question, even though I knew it was not addressed to me personally, I knew I could not leave it unanswered. It’s THE question for Christians, isn’t it? THE question for unconverted seekers is “Why am I here?” (although I often find that Christians don’t agree on the answer to this one).

The Sacrifice of the Son of God at Calvary is, was, and always will be, essentially, the Gospel (good news). There are other components of the substitutionary atonement, but Calvary is the centerpiece and the main focus of the plan of redemption.

So, what did it accomplish? Actually, it accomplished more than can be described in a post limited to 10,000 characters, but at the heart of the matter is this:

Liberty

In dying in our stead for the sins that have polluted the earth by mankind, Christ effectually recovered the dominion over the earth that Adam surrendered to the adversary of souls in Eden. In doing that, He also made it possible for our will to be freed from the dominion of Satan. Christ, and Him crucified is the Key that opens every door to the security and happiness of the universe.

So many metaphors are used in the Bible to describe Christ’s efficacy that it overwhelms the unconverted heart with confusion. On the other hand, it overwhelms His followers with joy, wonder, and love. Christ, Himself, is love.

But back to liberty.


The founders of America recognized that the right to make, conscientious, well-informed, and uninhibited decisions about matters pertaining to faith and morals was an imperative of the Creator, Himself. In forming the first amendment and making it the law of the land, they were merely affirming this. They knew that the state that depended on ecclesiastical influence and power was simply a state that was too weak to be called a “state.” And that the church that depended on the state to enforce its affairs was a church that was too bereft of divine power to be called a “church.” This is why churches and states must work independently of each other, lest they both fall. (There are nations where the church and state are “united” without very much harm but, for the most part, these arrangements are usually a matter of tradition and not overreaching of influence and power.)

Isaiah 61:1 The Spirit of the Lord GOD is on Me, because the LORD has anointed Me to preach good news to the poor. He has sent Me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives and freedom to the prisoners,

John 18:36 Jesus answered, "My kingdom is not of this world; if it were, My servants would fight to prevent My arrest by the Jews. But now My kingdom is not of this realm."

Mark 12:17 Then Jesus told them, "Give to Caesar what is Caesar's, and to God what is God's." And they marveled at Him.

If we look closely at these verses, in particular (though there are others), we find the Saviour expressing the concept of religious liberty. Satan’s government is based on lies and spiritual oppression.

What God wants from His intelligent creatures is love. And true love cannot spring from a heart that is in chains. Love must be voluntary, otherwise, it is a disingenuous tyranny.

Deuteronomy 5:29 If only they had such a heart to fear Me and keep all My commandments always, so that it might be well with them and with their children forever.

The “end game” for the Gospel of Christ Jesus is for all His creation to be able to see clearly the true nature of His Father’s character, so that they may love Him as freely as He does them.

And everything that functions to this end is what was accomplished by the Cross, in particular, and by the substitutionary atonement, in general.

Everything Christ has done from the time of the awakening of pride in the heart of Lucifer, up to the present time, has been purposed to the gathering of His children to Himself.

Oh, that we could comprehend the inestimable love that inhabits the Father’s heart, that He would consent to the humiliation of the Son of His bosom in becoming a flesh-and-blood man, biologically defiled by the effects of 4000 years of human sin! And that he would allow Jesus to bear upon His own shoulders the sin of the world, and yea more, the wages thereof!

That which alone can effectually restrain from sin in this world of darkness, will prevent sin in heaven. The significance of the death of Christ will be seen by saints and angels. Fallen men could not have a home in the paradise of God without the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. The angels ascribe honor and glory to Christ, for even they are not secure except by looking to the sufferings of the Son of God. It is through the efficacy of the cross that the angels of heaven are guarded against apostasy. Without the cross, they would be no more secure against evil than were the angels before the fall of Satan. Angelic perfection failed in heaven. Human perfection failed in Eden, the paradise of bliss. All who wish for security in earth or heaven must look to the Lamb of God.

Too much could be said about this to fit in this space. Every blessing that flows to us is afforded by the sufferings of the Babe of Bethlehem, the Carpenter of Nazareth, that Holy One of Israel. Truly, He has prevailed with God and has made former “supplanters” of those who believe on Him. We are seated with Him in Heavenly places, and at His side are pleasures forevermore! And what Calvary accomplished is the destruction of the power of the oppression (of Satan) that keeps us from enjoying these pleasures of full, unfettered love between God and His stray ones. And, eventually the complete and eternal banishment of the disease of sin from the finally secure universe.

Despite my writing style, I don't mean for this to be any kind of authoritative statement of doctrine in lieu of an answer to your question. It is my prayer that my posts of this kind would provoke imaginative thought about the glory of God as revealed in His Word and in nature. I hope this will help someone to that end.

I know you appreciate art. This is my favorite piece:
(I think I might be getting a large print for my birthday!)

the-penitent-man001.png
 

Bible Highlighter

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Do you know what Christ's death accomplishes and can you answer it for me?

The Provisional Atonement would answer this.

Provisional Atonement (not "Limited Atonement").
(A 100% Work of God alone that can only be applied personally to an individual's life via by being saved by God's grace and Sanctification).

This is Jesus paying the price for the sins of the entire world so as to offer mankind the free gift of salvation (if they so choose to accept it); Note: Christ's resurrection (to give us a new body not tainted by sin one day), and the ascension to the Father (after Christ telling Mary not to touch Him), and his entering the holy temple by his blood (to be our Heavenly High Priest) is also included in the Provisional Atonement, too. (For Provisional Atonement verses, see: John 1:29, 1 John 2:2, 1 Timothy 2:6, 2 Corinthians 5:19, Romans 5:6-8.) (Note: The best way to describe the Provisional Atonement is like a man who paid the price to pay off your debts by his handing you a check to be debt free; But it is up to you to receive the check, deposit it into your checking account, and pay off those you are in debt to; It's a gift, but like all good gifts in life, you have to receive the gift and use it properly to be of any benefit). Jesus provided an atonement, but it is up to us to receive it to personally apply to our lives by having a proper faith. Men will remain as sinners if they reject the Provisional Atonement of Jesus Christ. Jesus provided a provisional atonement (salvation) in dealing with sin as a way of escape for mankind to be saved through accepting Him (Who is the gift).

What is one goal or major reason Christ gave Himself for us?

“...even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.” (Ephesians 5:25-27).

“...our Saviour Jesus Christ; Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.” (Titus 2:13-14).
 
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Jennifer Rogers

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Ever since I first spotted this question, even though I knew it was not addressed to me personally, I knew I could not leave it unanswered. It’s THE question for Christians, isn’t it? THE question for unconverted seekers is “Why am I here?” (although I often find that Christians don’t agree on the answer to this one).

The Sacrifice of the Son of God at Calvary is, was, and always will be, essentially, the Gospel (good news). There are other components of the substitutionary atonement, but Calvary is the centerpiece and the main focus of the plan of redemption.

So, what did it accomplish? Actually, it accomplished more than can be described in a post limited to 10,000 characters, but at the heart of the matter is this:

Liberty

In dying in our stead for the sins that have polluted the earth by mankind, Christ effectually recovered the dominion over the earth that Adam surrendered to the adversary of souls in Eden. In doing that, He also made it possible for our will to be freed from the dominion of Satan. Christ, and Him crucified is the Key that opens every door to the security and happiness of the universe.

So many metaphors are used in the Bible to describe Christ’s efficacy that it overwhelms the unconverted heart with confusion. On the other hand, it overwhelms His followers with joy, wonder, and love. Christ, Himself, is love.

But back to liberty.


The founders of America recognized that the right to make, conscientious, well-informed, and uninhibited decisions about matters pertaining to faith and morals was an imperative of the Creator, Himself. In forming the first amendment and making it the law of the land, they were merely affirming this. They knew that the state that depended on ecclesiastical influence and power was simply a state that was too weak to be called a “state.” And that the church that depended on the state to enforce its affairs was a church that was too bereft of divine power to be called a “church.” This is why churches and states must work independently of each other, lest they both fall. (There are nations where the church and state are “united” without very much harm but, for the most part, these arrangements are usually a matter of tradition and not overreaching of influence and power.)

Isaiah 61:1 The Spirit of the Lord GOD is on Me, because the LORD has anointed Me to preach good news to the poor. He has sent Me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives and freedom to the prisoners,

John 18:36 Jesus answered, "My kingdom is not of this world; if it were, My servants would fight to prevent My arrest by the Jews. But now My kingdom is not of this realm."

Mark 12:17 Then Jesus told them, "Give to Caesar what is Caesar's, and to God what is God's." And they marveled at Him.

If we look closely at these verses, in particular (though there are others), we find the Saviour expressing the concept of religious liberty. Satan’s government is based on lies and spiritual oppression.

What God wants from His intelligent creatures is love. And true love cannot spring from a heart that is in chains. Love must be voluntary, otherwise, it is a disingenuous tyranny.

Deuteronomy 5:29 If only they had such a heart to fear Me and keep all My commandments always, so that it might be well with them and with their children forever.

The “end game” for the Gospel of Christ Jesus is for all His creation to be able to see clearly the true nature of His Father’s character, so that they may love Him as freely as He does them.

And everything that functions to this end is what was accomplished by the Cross, in particular, and by the substitutionary atonement, in general.

Everything Christ has done from the time of the awakening of pride in the heart of Lucifer, up to the present time, has been purposed to the gathering of His children to Himself.

Oh, that we could comprehend the inestimable love that inhabits the Father’s heart, that He would consent to the humiliation of the Son of His bosom in becoming a flesh-and-blood man, biologically defiled by the effects of 4000 years of human sin! And that he would allow Jesus to bear upon His own shoulders the sin of the world, and yea more, the wages thereof!

That which alone can effectually restrain from sin in this world of darkness, will prevent sin in heaven. The significance of the death of Christ will be seen by saints and angels. Fallen men could not have a home in the paradise of God without the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. The angels ascribe honor and glory to Christ, for even they are not secure except by looking to the sufferings of the Son of God. It is through the efficacy of the cross that the angels of heaven are guarded against apostasy. Without the cross, they would be no more secure against evil than were the angels before the fall of Satan. Angelic perfection failed in heaven. Human perfection failed in Eden, the paradise of bliss. All who wish for security in earth or heaven must look to the Lamb of God.

Too much could be said about this to fit in this space. Every blessing that flows to us is afforded by the sufferings of the Babe of Bethlehem, the Carpenter of Nazareth, that Holy One of Israel. Truly, He has prevailed with God and has made former “supplanters” of those who believe on Him. We are seated with Him in Heavenly places, and at His side are pleasures forevermore! And what Calvary accomplished is the destruction of the power of the oppression (of Satan) that keeps us from enjoying these pleasures of full, unfettered love between God and His stray ones. And, eventually the complete and eternal banishment of the disease of sin from the finally secure universe.

Despite my writing style, I don't mean for this to be any kind of authoritative statement of doctrine in lieu of an answer to your question. It is my prayer that my posts of this kind would provoke imaginative thought about the glory of God as revealed in His Word and in nature. I hope this will help someone to that end.

I know you appreciate art. This is my favorite piece:
(I think I might be getting a large print for my birthday!)

the-penitent-man001.png
Thank you for your reply, your picture is beautiful and meaningful. I also have a lot of pictures of God. If you are interested, I can send you to admire.:D
 
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