Long Gone

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Netchaplain

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When the believer in Christ learns that the forgiveness given at rebirth will never be subject to change, the concept of the permanency of faith and salvation come clearer into view and the walk is less difficult due to the right to “lay aside every weight, and the sin which does so easily beset us . . .” (Heb 12:1). We cannot know the freedom from sin’s reign if we do not walk in the knowledge that it all has been completely dealt with in the Cross.

Only when we consider any sin to remain that has not been addressed by the Blood will we walk in our own misjudgment of its full cleansing, even though all the sin has been completely addressed and absolved in the Cross. Only when we know this truth can we always “cast all your care upon Him” (1 Pet 5:7); disallow “your heart to be troubled” (Jhn 14:1, 27); know “you are clean through the Word (Jhn 15:3),” and realize we are ever one with the Father, the Lord Jesus, and one another (Jhn 14:20; 17:21).

-NC
[SIZE=14pt]Long Gone[/SIZE]​
A great many souls are thinking how they stand with God, instead of thinking how God stands with them. When the prodigal came to the father his thoughts were all about what he had done and what he was. He soon found what his father had done and how he felt. There is the sense of how God stands towards us, and how everything about us is removed from His eye, before we know in our soul that everything is removed from our own vision. Do you believe all is gone before the eye of your Father? Yes! Is all gone from before your eye? Ah, that is another matter?

It is a great thing to get peace by the work of the Lord Jesus, but it is even greater to have the enjoyment of it. That is what the prodigal son wanted; he knew there was nothing between his father and himself when his father kissed him; but what troubled him was, he was not fit for his father’s house.

Many a one knows peace with God who does not know deliverance from himself, and hence he does not enjoy his peace. I know it myself, I have gone that road. When I saw Christ had borne my judgement, and all was gone from before the holy eye of God forever, I said it was beautiful; it was profound blessing—but then when I looked at myself I was not a bit happy. The fact is, at the time I was trying to improve the “flesh,” the “old man.”

For deliverance from the reign of the Adam-life you must have more than justification; you need to see that the old man is gone (permanently powerless concerning damnation - Rom 8:1; and permanently powerless concerning domination - Rom 6:12, 14—NC) from your eye, as clearly as you see that it is gone from God’s eye. It must be by the Spirit and the Word that you learn it; it is only by the Spirit that you can see that it is judicially gone. Peace is that I see that my Adam-life is gone from the eye of my Father through the work of the Cross.

It is clear that my conscience is truly awakened as to what is due to God, because of the sentiments of my new nature, that begin to find that “in me (that is in my flesh) dwells “no good thing”; and I long, as seeing what would suit me, to be delivered from the “body of this death” (Rom 7:24 - referring to “the body of sin” – Rom 6:6, along with its “members” – Col 3:5—NC) and not to now improve it, but to be delivered from it. It is then that I rise in delight of heart to the full work of the Cross. Nothing can afford me full freedom from the old Adam-life but the scriptural knowledge that my Father has removed it entirely from His own eye in the Cross of His Son.

The Lord Jesus made Himself a sacrifice for sin, thereby removing it from before the Father according to the measure it was in His mind. He was made to be sin and suffered for it fully, because He alone knew what it was in God’s sight. Now as He has removed it according to God’s estimate, it is evident that it must be gone according to mine, however much my sense of it may increase.

Therefore it is of immense importance that I should believe that God has removed in the Cross everything in me that could offend Him; that it is now judicially true for the believer that the end of all flesh (sinful nature—NC) has come before God. For then I am not only clear of it before Him through faith in Christ, but as the old man has been crucified with Christ, I have nothing to work on or improve. I have only to reckon it as in the place of death, where God has placed it.

I must know that through grace I am in Christ before I can survey and apprehend the dignities of this great position; and as I do so, I begin to connect myself with the heavenly places. I cannot understand His glory until I have known His grace, and as I am enjoying His glory, I am in the place where He is. Thus the highest blessing is contingent on the apprehension of the fullness of His grace.

- J B Stoney


Excerpt from MJS devotional:

“The Lord Jesus Christ is the Christian’s very life (Col 3:4), and the Holy Spirit dwells within our spirit to manifest Him (Rom 8:18), to work out all that is in Him and to reproduce Him in us. We must remember that there is something in the sight of God that is higher than work. There is Christ-likeness. That is our Father’s purpose, and it is His work.” -A.M.

http://www.abideabove.com/hungry-heart/
 
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H. Richard

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NetChaplain said:
When the believer in Christ learns that the forgiveness given at rebirth will never be subject to change, the concept of the permanency of faith and salvation come clearer into view and the walk is less difficult due to the right to “lay aside every weight, and the sin which does so easily beset us . . .” (Heb 12:1). We cannot know the freedom from sin’s reign if we do not walk in the knowledge that it all has been completely dealt with in the Cross.

Only when we consider any sin to remain that has not been addressed by the Blood will we walk in our own misjudgment of its full cleansing, even though all the sin has been completely addressed and absolved in the Cross. Only when we know this truth can we always “cast all your care upon Him” (1 Pet 5:7); disallow “your heart to be troubled” (Jhn 14:1, 27); know “you are clean through the Word (Jhn 15:3),” and realize we are ever one with the Father, the Lord Jesus, and one another (Jhn 14:20; 17:21).

-NC
[SIZE=14pt]Long Gone[/SIZE]​
A great many souls are thinking how they stand with God, instead of thinking how God stands with them. When the prodigal came to the father his thoughts were all about what he had done and what he was. He soon found what his father had done and how he felt. There is the sense of how God stands towards us, and how everything about us is removed from His eye, before we know in our soul that everything is removed from our own vision. Do you believe all is gone before the eye of your Father? Yes! Is all gone from before your eye? Ah, that is another matter?

It is a great thing to get peace by the work of the Lord Jesus, but it is even greater to have the enjoyment of it. That is what the prodigal son wanted; he knew there was nothing between his father and himself when his father kissed him; but what troubled him was, he was not fit for his father’s house.

Many a one knows peace with God who does not know deliverance from himself, and hence he does not enjoy his peace. I know it myself, I have gone that road. When I saw Christ had borne my judgement, and all was gone from before the holy eye of God forever, I said it was beautiful; it was profound blessing—but then when I looked at myself I was not a bit happy. The fact is, at the time I was trying to improve the “flesh,” the “old man.”

For deliverance from the reign of the Adam-life you must have more than justification; you need to see that the old man is gone (permanently powerless concerning damnation - Rom 8:1; and permanently powerless concerning domination - Rom 6:12, 14—NC) from your eye, as clearly as you see that it is gone from God’s eye. It must be by the Spirit and the Word that you learn it; it is only by the Spirit that you can see that it is judicially gone. Peace is that I see that my Adam-life is gone from the eye of my Father through the work of the Cross.

It is clear that my conscience is truly awakened as to what is due to God, because of the sentiments of my new nature, that begin to find that “in me (that is in my flesh) dwells “no good thing”; and I long, as seeing what would suit me, to be delivered from the “body of this death” (Rom 7:24 - referring to “the body of sin” – Rom 6:6, along with its “members” – Col 3:5—NC) and not to now improve it, but to be delivered from it. It is then that I rise in delight of heart to the full work of the Cross. Nothing can afford me full freedom from the old Adam-life but the scriptural knowledge that my Father has removed it entirely from His own eye in the Cross of His Son.

The Lord Jesus made Himself a sacrifice for sin, thereby removing it from before the Father according to the measure it was in His mind. He was made to be sin and suffered for it fully, because He alone knew what it was in God’s sight. Now as He has removed it according to God’s estimate, it is evident that it must be gone according to mine, however much my sense of it may increase.

Therefore it is of immense importance that I should believe that God has removed in the Cross everything in me that could offend Him; that it is now judicially true for the believer that the end of all flesh (sinful nature—NC) has come before God. For then I am not only clear of it before Him through faith in Christ, but as the old man has been crucified with Christ, I have nothing to work on or improve. I have only to reckon it as in the place of death, where God has placed it.

I must know that through grace I am in Christ before I can survey and apprehend the dignities of this great position; and as I do so, I begin to connect myself with the heavenly places. I cannot understand His glory until I have known His grace, and as I am enjoying His glory, I am in the place where He is. Thus the highest blessing is contingent on the apprehension of the fullness of His grace.

- J B Stoney


Excerpt from MJS devotional:

“The Lord Jesus Christ is the Christian’s very life (Col 3:4), and the Holy Spirit dwells within our spirit to manifest Him (Rom 8:18), to work out all that is in Him and to reproduce Him in us. We must remember that there is something in the sight of God that is higher than work. There is Christ-likeness. That is our Father’s purpose, and it is His work.” -A.M.

http://www.abideabove.com/hungry-heart/
***
Wonderful and truth-full OP. Everyone should read it.

Only those that know (thru faith) that their sins of the flesh have all been taken care of by God will have peace with God in their hearts.
 

Netchaplain

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H. Richard said:
***
Wonderful and truth-full OP. Everyone should read it.

Only those that know (thru faith) that their sins of the flesh have all been taken care of by God will have peace with God in their hearts.
Hi HR - Thanks for your reply and appreciate the compliments and comment. I find it encouraging to know that God will show all who are His everything He wants them to know, and it's all about something you've mentioned--faith. Nothing God does addresses salvation in the believer because now all attention is focused on the sole issue growth in our faith.

Blessings Friend in Christ

Blessings!
 

Zachary

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NetChaplain said:
When the believer in Christ learns that the forgiveness given at rebirth will never be subject to change, the concept of the permanency of faith and salvation come clearer into view and the walk is less difficult due to the right to “lay aside every weight, and the sin which does so easily beset us . . .” (Heb 12:1).
We cannot know the freedom from sin’s reign if we do not walk in the knowledge that it all has been completely dealt with in the Cross.
This is all very exciting! ... but not because we've been down this road before.

Very exciting and very popular with those who have been deceived by Satan through the church.

Please note:
the Holy Spirit will NOT convict people (for very long) who are NOT OPEN to receiving spiritual Truth.
'Tis a waste of His time!

The PROOF of my allegations against you simply rest in the dozens of dire warnings in the NT
written to believers (obviously) in the churches ... about the results of habitual sinning.

I cannot remember, but IMO, thou hast NOT succumbed to addressing any of these warnings!

What sayest thou this time?

Meanwhile ... da red above is NOT true!
Believers who have the correct heart attitude towards their Lord ...
are repenting of their sins and are being given PEACE that they are living righteously before Him.
IMO, if you have peace, it is a false peace! ... Did you know this is possible?

Do you realize that some of the OT believers were living righteously?
'Tis possible, you know, even without the new nature and the indwelling Holy Spirit.
My favs are Zach and Liz.
 

Netchaplain

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Zachary said:
the Holy Spirit will NOT convict people (for very long) who are NOT OPEN to receiving spiritual Truth.
Hi Zach - Thanks for your reply! It's my belief that those who profess faith in Christ and are not desirous of all of God's truths are not manifesting His "work" in them, e.g. all who are truly born again will desire to put God's "pleasure" first (Phil 2:13).

God bless!
 

Zachary

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NetChaplain said:
the Holy Spirit will NOT convict people (for very long) who are NOT OPEN to receiving spiritual Truth.

It's my belief that those who profess faith in Christ and are not desirous of all of God's truths are not manifesting His "work" in them,
e.g. all who are truly born again will desire to put God's "pleasure" first (Phil 2:13).
FYI, da red above was directed at you, and people like you.

Thanks for not agreeing to address even one of the dozens of NT warnings re: losing salvation.
I guess some things never change!
 

Netchaplain

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Zachary said:
FYI, da red above was directed at you, and people like you.

Thanks for not agreeing to address even one of the dozens of NT warnings re: losing salvation.
I guess some things never change!
I think our belief's vary too much on this issue to justify debating it with one another. For example, we cannot find anywhere in Scripture the words "loose salvation," thus there would be nothing which to base a concept that opposes OSAS.

I'm not trying to avoid you as you think but just sharing with you my opinions about it, and you the same, so we can keep it kind and respectful towards one another.
 

H. Richard

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NetChaplain said:
I think our belief's vary too much on this issue to justify debating it with one another. For example, we cannot find anywhere in Scripture the words "loose salvation," thus there would be nothing which to base a concept that opposes OSAS.

I'm not trying to avoid you as you think but just sharing with you my opinions about it, and you the same, so we can keep it kind and respectful towards one another.
***
LOL, you won't find many who will be kind and respectful to others on a forum.

I think that most people look at sin as if it is something that they can decide to get or refuse to get. Most do not understand that sin is in themselves, in their very nature. It is not something a person in sinful flesh can turn off or on. The children of God understand this and know that they can never make themselves righteous before God. Only faith in what God says will allow a person to be made righteous """IN CHRIST""" and in this age of God's grace it is the message that He, God, has atoned (paid) for all the sins of the world, all of them. But you have to believe, put your faith in that message.. It is a message the was HIDDEN in God and revealed to Paul for us.

All the scriptures are written FOR us, but not all are written to us. A person must be able to rightly DIVIDE the word of God. If scripture is seen as being blended (mixed) together then the truth can not be seen.


 

Zachary

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NetChaplain said:
I think our beliefs vary too much on this issue to justify debating it with one another.
For example, we cannot find anywhere in Scripture the words "lose salvation,"
thus there would be nothing which to base a concept that opposes OSAS.
I'm not trying to avoid you as you think but just sharing with you my opinions about it,
and you the same, so we can keep it kind and respectful towards one another.
IMO, you're avoiding me and the dozens of NT passages which threaten loss of salvation.

The precious Holy Spirit does NOT need any particular words to be in Scripture.
Those who are being led by God's Spirit are sons of God (Romans 8:14).

Instead of quoting NT passages which you've already seen and rejected,
let's go in a different direction ... What do these phrases suggest to you?
fall way from the faith --- draw back to perdition --- fall from grace
Do they suggest to you that they should be ignored?

Responsible believers really need to ...
RECONCILE the so-called OSAS verses with the anti-OSAS verses.

Responsible believers really need to NOT ignore one of the two groups of verses!
 

Zachary

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H. Richard said:
The children of God understand this and know that
they can never make themselves righteous before God.
Care to see the 10 NT verses which (is supposed to) teach us that
those who practice righteousness are righteous (in God's eyes).

Please forgive me for adding those words in brackets.
What do I know about God's eyes?
 

Netchaplain

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Zachary said:
The precious Holy Spirit does NOT need any particular words to be in Scripture.
Those who are being led by God's Spirit are sons of God (Romans 8:14).
I believe we should realize that the Spirit of God does nothing outside of His Word (not suspecting you saying He does), He being the Author of it (1 Pet 1:21), and though from what I've seen in your posts I have no reason to think you're not a child of God, we just have significant differences in our understanding concerning the most important spiritual growth teaching, which concerns the "irrevocable" aspect of faith and salvation.


Zachary said:
Instead of quoting NT passages which you've already seen and rejected,
let's go in a different direction ... What do these phrases suggest to you?
fall way from the faith --- draw back to perdition --- fall from grace
Do they suggest to you that they should be ignored?
I would strongly suggest checking among Bible commentators (http://www.studylight.org/commentaries/), among whom you will not find the concept that faith and salvation is not permanent and eternal. My favorites are John Gill and Albert Barnes. Many have yet to realize the advantage of commentator usage and are thus closed to their "own understanding," which is what most do early in their studies but many eventually learn the advantage of the commentators.

Best wishes in Him to your Family!
 

Netchaplain

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H. Richard said:
***
LOL, you won't find many who will be kind and respectful to others on a forum.
Yes, I see this on the dozen or so sites on which I share this material, but I see it due to the lack of reading through the NT enough for the Spirit to have something to which to use in teaching them. Many know only what they've heard or discussed and parts they have seen, which most of the time will be the results of man's teaching and not the Spirit teaching through man (1 Cor 2:13), thus stunting and delaying spiritual growth in the "Word of Truth" (for the last 50 years or so).

Blessings!
 

Zachary

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NetChaplain said:
... the lack of reading through the NT enough for the Spirit to have something to which to use in teaching them.
Many know only what they've heard or discussed and parts they have seen, which most of the time
will be the results of man's teaching and not the Spirit teaching through man (1 Cor 2:13),
thus stunting and delaying spiritual growth in the "Word of Truth" (for the last 50 years or so).
Yes, "for the last 50 years or so" ... western churches have exponentially gone in favor of
the utterly disastrous "easy grace - easy believism - OSAS" doctrine of great popularity.

However, according to many words of the Lord through His faithful saints:
a great revival is coming, in which you will see how horrendous the doctrines being taught have been!

You will see the will of God, re: the church and evangelism ... signs, wonders, and miracles.
You will see multitudes loving Jesus and anxious to obey His commands unto eternal life.
 

H. Richard

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Zachary said:
Yes, "for the last 50 years or so" ... western churches have exponentially gone in favor of
the utterly disastrous "easy grace - easy believism - OSAS" doctrine of great popularity.

However, according to many words of the Lord through His faithful saints:
a great revival is coming, in which you will see how horrendous the doctrines being taught have been!

You will see the will of God, re: the church and evangelism ... signs, wonders, and miracles.
You will see multitudes loving Jesus and anxious to obey His commands unto eternal life.
***
Luke 21:8
8 And He said: "Take heed that you not be deceived. For many will come in My name, saying, 'I am He,' and, 'The time has drawn near.' Therefore do not go after them.
NKJV

Many religious men and churches will say theirs is the only way and deceive many. It is not easy for a person to place their eternal life in the promise of God that He has atoned for all a person's sins on the cross.


I find it interesting that when someone is completely trusting in God for their salvation, and witness that their trust in God is what saves them, not their attempts at good works, the religious people of this world always say that faith in what Jesus did on the cross is not enough, it is just a starting point, you must have works (see James). When they say this they are not trusting in God's love and power in His plan of salvation. For it is God that forgives sin and it is God that has provided Jesus Christ as a sin offering. If you can't go to heaven if you sin! Then no one is going to heaven. But it is written, "Blessed is he whose transgressions are forgiven, whose sins are covered. Blessed is the man whose sin the Lord does not count against him and in whose spirit is no deceit" (deceit = dishonesty) (Psalm 32: 1 and 2). It is also written, "Who are you to judge someone else's servant? To his own master he stands or falls. And he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand." (Romans 14:4), "Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding" (Proverbs 3:5), "Blessed are those that trust in the Lord", and again, "He that comes to me I will in no wise cast him out". As for TRUST in God look at what the scriptures say about it. Do a word search in the Bible for all the references listed under "TRUST", "FAITH", and "BELIEVE". There are hundreds.


I cannot see how people can place their trust in religious organizations that are based upon that religious organization's interpretation of Bible scripture. Think about the time of Jesus Christ. There were all kinds of different beliefs. The Pharisees believed salvation was in the promises made to Abraham and by keeping the law. The Sadducees believed they had the truth and it denied the resurrection. Look at what Jesus said about them. They were blind, leading the blind, and the truth was not in them. The Catholic Church has religious leaders and they fleeced and tormented the illiterate people in the middle ages and seem to worship idols. The Muslims believe in the Islamic religion. The Jehovah Witness people have their interpretation of the Bible. The protestant denominations have their interpretation of the Bible. The point is that they disagreed in the meaning of religious writings.

Am I really supposed to place my trust (faith) in a Religious organization's leadership and wisdom? Where I spend eternity depends upon where I place my faith (trust).

. . . . . . . . . . Which one should I choose????
. . . . . . . . . . I will choose none of them.