Looking at the Statement of Faith

[Aunty Jane]

But God's mercy involves Him withholding the punishment the sinner deserves. God's mercy is never deserved/warranted. I agree that God's justice is not watered down by His love. That is why in His love He sent Jesus Christ, to bear the punishment of His peoples' sins.

Please read the reply to @Brakelite above.
Mercy is extended to those who warrant it. IOW, God has his reasons for extending mercy when it is encompassed in his will and purpose. No one is extended mercy if they show no repentance.

Even those who were executed for their crimes in this world, have the hope of a resurrection. Even the thief who was hung alongside Jesus was given that hope….to be “with Jesus in paradise”…but not heaven.

Jesus will call all the dead who are in their tombs and bring them back to life. (John 5:28-29)
If “the wages of sin is death” (Rom 5:23) and “he who has died is freed from sin“ (Rom 6:7) then those resurrected have paid sins wages, and are resurrected with a clean slate. The highest penalty under God’s law was death, not ‘eternal conscious torture in a fiery hell’…..once the sentence is served, the sinners are free to resume their lives.

Christ has ransomed them from their graves. His death means that they have another chance at life……perhaps their only chance if they lived at a a time or in an era where the true God was not known to them.
We cannot dictate God’s justice.

The Bible speaks of “hades” and “Gehenna” (both of which are erroneously translated as “hell”) and careful study will reveal where a person who has lived and died in this world ruled by the devil, will be found on the day of judgment. Only God knows the heart.…and those in “Gehenna” will never see life again. Jesus sentenced the Pharisees to “Gehenna” (Matt 23:33) and they knew in the Jewish view exactly what he meant. ”Gehenna” is a “judgment”….sentence in an eternal prison from which no one can escape, because it represents a death from which there is no resurrection.

Everlasting life in the Bible is contrasted with everlasting death…these are the opposing destinations for all humans.

 

[TheHC]

Jehovah WILL hold you accountable.

Yes… We ALL will!

 

[TheHC]

You need JESUS!!!!! He died for OUR SINS.

Yes, exactly! And that is why we are promised a Resurrection.

Quit with the Ad Homs…. If you cannot be amicable with your responses, then I won’t interact with you.

 

[PS95]

Yes, exactly! And that is why we are promised a Resurrection.

Quit with the Ad Homs…. If you cannot be amicable with your responses, then I won’t interact with you.

You just called me Judas on my thread. Please go back to answer my simple question in reply. All that is required is a simple yes or no. Then, you can put me on shun all you like.

The unknown single most important thing to be sure to know if you meet a JW.

Not sure what you mean here, @TheHC. The death of an unbeliever is not paid for by their own death. There is no payment for the sin of an unbeliever unless that unbeliever becomes saved by believing and receiving Christ as the Lord and Savior. Then the blood of Jesus cleanses them from sin. Sin...

www.christianityboard.com

 

[Brakelite]

Did you miss the scripture that tells us that only the woman was “deceived”…..Adam was not….
”For Adam was formed first, then Eve; and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor.“ (1 Tim 2:13-14 RSV)
There it is…..Adam did not make a mistake, nor did he have a momentary lapse in judgment…..he made a choice that cost him his life, and the lives of all who came from him. Sin came into the world through “one man”…not the woman. (Rom 5:12)

Perfect creatures make deliberate choices and his was unforgivable.
Adam is responsible for the deaths of countless billions of his offspring…..but nowhere was he told that he would go to “hell” for that. He was told simply that he would die and return to the elements of the earth from which he was created. There never was an afterlife…..when God said that they would die…he meant it.
Jews were taught about a resurrection in the future under Messiah’s kingdom….not immortality of the soul where some shadowy part of humans departs from the body.

King David wrote….
”The heavens are the Lord’s heavens, but the earth he has given to the sons of men.
The dead do not praise the Lord, nor do any that go down into silence.” Psalm 115:16-17)

You read into Genesis what you want to see, but it plainly isn’t there.

Were the Israelites ever told that a “heaven or hell” was reserved for them? NO!
They we’re told by their God….
”I call heaven and earth to witness against you today that I have put life and death before you, the blessing and the curse; therefore choose life, that you as well as your descendants may live, by loving the LORD your God, by heeding his injunctions, and by holding fast to him; for that will mean life to you.” (Deut 39:19-20 AT)

“Life or death”…these were the opposing sentences that God’s people could expect, depending on their own choices….just like Adam…they had to choose to serve God and obey him if they wanted continuing life under his care and control.

Interesting you are so confident in judging and condemning someone who lived 6000 years ago.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Interesting you are so confident in judging and condemning someone who lived 6000 years ago.

That’s an interesting reply seeing as how you never addressed anything that was presented to you…

Can you even admit that God made the garments for Adam and his wife? No killing of any animals was mentioned….certainly no sacrifice was ever offered.

God condemned Adam….telling this man, who was virtually responsible for the deaths of the entire human race descended from him….that he would “return to the dust”….no afterlife of any sort was mentioned and death meant the opposite of life…as God instructed the Israelites.

Adam has little to offer by way of explanation or excuse…he knew the penalty, but deliberately broke God’s law. He chose to side with his disobedient wife rather than to obey his God and lose her. Severe consequences followed…of which we are all victims. Divided loyalties can be our undoing.

 

[Brakelite]

Please read the reply to @Brakelite above.
Mercy is extended to those who warrant it. IOW, God has his reasons for extending mercy when it is encompassed in his will and purpose. No one is extended mercy if they show no repentance.

Even those who were executed for their crimes in this world, have the hope of a resurrection. Even the thief who was hung alongside Jesus was given that hope….to be “with Jesus in paradise”…but not heaven.

Jesus will call all the dead who are in their tombs and bring them back to life. (John 5:28-29)
If “the wages of sin is death” (Rom 5:23) and “he who has died is freed from sin“ (Rom 6:7) then those resurrected have paid sins wages, and are resurrected with a clean slate. The highest penalty under God’s law was death, not ‘eternal conscious torture in a fiery hell’…..once the sentence is served, the sinners are free to resume their lives.

Christ has ransomed them from their graves. His death means that they have another chance at life……perhaps their only chance if they lived at a a time or in an era where the true God was not known to them.
We cannot dictate God’s justice.

The Bible speaks of “hades” and “Gehenna” (both of which are erroneously translated as “hell”) and careful study will reveal where a person who has lived and died in this world ruled by the devil, will be found on the day of judgment. Only God knows the heart.…and those in “Gehenna” will never see life again. Jesus sentenced the Pharisees to “Gehenna” (Matt 23:33) and they knew in the Jewish view exactly what he meant. ”Gehenna” is a “judgment”….sentence in an eternal prison from which no one can escape, because it represents a death from which there is no resurrection.

Everlasting life in the Bible is contrasted with everlasting death…these are the opposing destinations for all humans.

I'm confused by your doctrine. Who pays the penalty for our sin? Ourselves, or Jesus?

 

[Aunty Jane]

I'm confused by your doctrine. Who pays the penalty for our sin? Ourselves, or Jesus?

What is confusing? “The wages sin pays is death”…..Jesus came to reverse the situation that causes death….to “undo the works of the devil”.……his death pays for our sins. He is our redeemer, who paid the price for our sins because we were born in sin through no fault on our part.

And as far as those in Sheol/hades (the grave) Christ’s blood ransoms them too. They will be resurrected to a new life…..the one God purposed for them all along. We look forward to a “new heavens and a new earth” where there will be only righteous ones…..this is where God’s kingdom will take us.

 

[TheHC]

What is confusing? “The wages sin pays is death”…..Jesus came to reverse the situation that causes death….to “undo the works of the devil”.……his death pays for our sins. He is our redeemer, who paid the price for our sins because we were born in sin through no fault on our part.

And as far as those in Sheol/hades (the grave) Christ’s blood ransoms them too. They will be resurrected to a new life…..the one God purposed for them all along. We look forward to a “new heavens and a new earth” where there will be only righteous ones…..this is where God’s kingdom will take us.

Nicely put!

Many just don’t grasp how valuable the Resurrection is, because of “immediate afterlife” & “immortal soul” doctrines.

If it weren’t for Christ’s sacrifice, everyone would stay dead!

But His sacrifice does way more than that: it allows for the living who accept Christ to have a clean standing before Jehovah now. And for the chosen ones to be declared righteous through their faith in that sacrifice.

Appreciate your input.

 

[PS95]

What is confusing? “The wages sin pays is death”…..Jesus came to reverse the situation that causes death….to “undo the works of the devil”.……his death pays for our sins. He is our redeemer, who paid the price for our sins because we were born in sin through no fault on our part.

And as far as those in Sheol/hades (the grave) Christ’s blood ransoms them too. They will be resurrected to a new life…..the one God purposed for them all along. We look forward to a “new heavens and a new earth” where there will be only righteous ones…..this is where God’s kingdom will take us.

Singing a slightly more confusing altered tune now? That is doublespeak. On the one hand, you say- we pay our own sin debt by our deaths-- because you think a wage paid to you is actually you paying a debt. Wow. You can not afford to pay that debt. No man can. And then as it typical of you lately, you also say that Jesus' death pay for our sins.

So, WHAT WAS LEFT FOR JESUS if your dying pays for your sins? Adam's sin. Right. Your God requires 2 payments for OUR sins! That is a lie. You lie.
I'm wondering whose payment fell short that God requires 2? Was that Jesus'? Or was it sinful man's death, so Jesus just picked up the slack? You have your very own new religion. Congrats.

At least TheHC was honest about it. I can at least respect the honestly. I can not respect or believe a thing you say.
TheHC said, YES-- MY JW Father's death PAID FOR HIS SINS.
Your Watchtower literature says it. OTHER JWs also say it like my sisters, brothers, nieces and nephews, etc.
That makes you a LIAR.
To top it off-- JWs teach that "bad deeds" (sins) they commit in THIS LIFE do not matter- because dying pays for them.

Why must you insist on constantly trying to lower Jesus Christ?
Why can't you grasp that He alone paid the sin debt for ALL. ALL includes Adam.
Who are YOU to judge Adam? WHO are YOU to decide this? It is utterly amazing.

Jesus paid our debt and forgiven us of OUR sins. He is the ONLY one who could.
The problem that you have is that you refuse to believe IN Him.

He is not a Name that you pronounce, nor is He dead. Jesus LIVES.
He in not a blip at the end of your prayer. He IS the AMEN.
Read your bible alone & beg God for mercy to wash your eye sockets out, and then and only then- hear and see what Jesus did for us. There are scores of passages about it. Read it. Stop bringing false teachings here!
Go and join your secret JW members- only boards. You can't can't your time there though, can you.. ?

 

[PS95]

Nicely put!
Many just don’t grasp how valuable the Resurrection is, because of “immediate afterlife” & “immortal soul” doctrines.
If it weren’t for Christ’s sacrifice, everyone would stay dead!

You mean you would all stay in that deep unconscious know-nothing sleep?

But His sacrifice does way more than that: it allows for the living who accept Christ to have a clean standing before Jehovah now. And for the chosen ones to be declared righteous through their faith in that sacrifice.
Appreciate your input.

It does? HOW? The Watchtower didn't teach you that. and that is not what Jane said. She said you die to pay your sin debt AND Jesus died for sins. 2 payments! Double sinlessness?! woweee
You mean your sins are forgiven? Does that man you can still sin since your sins will be paid for when you die?
You sound far worse than a JW apostate!