LORD'S PRAYER STUDY----------------------------MATTHEW 6:6-13" One thing leads to another," As the old saying goes. It seems like every time I start a study, it leads to other studies. If I learned a particular study tool, soon that tool opens the door to other information. Early on in my Christian walk, I started using Strong's Exhaustive Concordance to get behind the English words to the original language of scripture. At one point I wanted to clarify some of the words in Chapter 6 of the book of Matthew. Especially, I wanted to double-check the Greek words that are translated "alms". I had been taught that "alms" in verse 1 was different than "alms" in verse 3.. Sure enough, my Diaglot interliniary showed two different Greek words, dikaiosunen and eleemosunen. The first word has the root "dika" which means righteousness, while the second, in verse three, has the root "ele-emo". Yyou'll notice that the "sunen" is the same for both words.The"dika" root means righteousness, whereas the "ele-emo" root relates to money. From just reading the English, one would conclude that money, the word we usually hear for "alms" was meant in both places. This is not true. Jesus was saying, in verse one, that we should do our righteous acts privately, not openly. He then goes on to list three major acts of righteousness, giving, prayer and fasting. One thing leads to another, and this clarification of the word "alms", led to the study below. This short study shows how I went behind the King James English to the Greek words that were used in the translation. This method of "translating/substituting" is a good basic way to help understand what the writer had in mind. You may have already seen this method on some of the other Bible pages.Step one is to determine the key words in the verse. Write them down, with plenty of spacing all around. Two, look up those words in Strong’s. Three, note the dictionary number(s) and its qualifier. NOTE: In the study below, q=unique; x=exclusive; u=uncommon; r=regular; indicates the frequency of use of that particular word. A quick skim of the other dictionary numbers for that word will give you the frequency of your word's use, as compared to other words that were translated to the same English word. The word "lead", which occurs only thirteen times in the New Testament, is translated from no less than eight different Greek words. We need to know which "lead" the writer was using. Four, write the definition, not the English translated words, for each word. Lastly, go back to the English translation and substitute the definitions for the English words. Read the “new” version, the trans-substitution. One last note. This is always called the Lord’s Prayer, but to avoid any confusion, know that Jesus never prayed this prayer. My guess is that the name, Lord’s Prayer, came about because it was the Lord who gave it to us. Jesus couldn’t possibly have prayed this prayer and been the Son of God. Jesus had no reason to ask for forgiveness of his sins. He had none.We may not be able to learn Greek and Hebrew, or have access to the Codex Vaticanus. We may not be able to read what other ancient languages recorded as scripture. How many of us know Ethiopic or Syriac? But we surely can get a Strong’s Concordance and look up the definitions for the original words used by the writers. I really believe that this kind of study is probably more effective than reading a couple commentaries or looking at five or six different translations.If you want to verify this for yourself, just look up “faith” in those five or six other translations or commentaries. Get a good sense of how “faith” is being used. My guess is that you will understand those other translations to mean “belief” when they say “faith”. I have found very few places where “faith” is understood as a VERB. My pages are spilling over with this idea. Faith is a verb. I haven’t seen one English translation that conveys the idea of action when the word “faith” is used.The Greek word pistis is a trusting action. English doesn’t have one word that believes, trusts and acts. Trust is a very poor substitute for pistis. Too many non-action ideas are part of trust. Trust easily travels between attitude, action, idea, and mind set. You, as a sincere student will never know that “faith” is a verb by reading any English translations. Try not to get angry at the translators over this next part. The word pisteuo, that is always translated into some form of the word "believe," has the exact same properties as pistis. You must have noticed that they both have the same root, pist. Think what that does to many Christian’s “proof text” that they are saved, John 3:16. If they say, “I believe in God. I’m saved,” they are in serious, nay fatal error.OK. Now it's your turn. A new look at the "Lord's Prayer." You really should do more than just read this stuff. Reading isn't study. Get out your Bible and Strong's and check the references and definitions. Have some serious fun.--------------------------------------------------------------------------------VERSE6 to pray to God4336xPRAYEST to enter 1525x ENTER storage chambr 5009CLOSET to close 2808x SHUT parent/father 3962x FATHER concealed 2927private SECRET to look591SEETH give away991p.v.REWARD apparent fixed position 1722(in,at,on) 5318OPENLY VERSE7 prate tediously945q to stutterREPETITIONS prolixity-verbosity,diffusiveness4180q loquacity-excess talkSPEAKING VERSE8 none VERSE9 in this way 3779uMANNER heaven/eternity3772x the skyHEAVEN to make holy37x venerate HALLOWED authority3686x a name NAME character VERSE10 realm932x royalty KINGDOM to come or go2064r COME a determination 2307xWILL soil1093x region EARTH globe VERSE11 bestow 1325x grant GIVE needful for1967q sustenanceDAILY bread740x a loafBREAD VERSE12 to send forth 863x dischargeFORGIVE something owed 3783 moral fault DEBTS (one who owes)(same)FORGIVE DEBTS VERSE13 carry inward1533q LEAD adversity-evil/Lu 11 sins 3986x putting to proofTEMPTATION rescue for4506r onesself DELIVER hurtful-evil 4190r malice EVIL dynamite 1411r forcePOWER apparent glory 1391x GLORY so be it281x firm(H543 sure;faithfulness) AMEN LEAD: I confess that just looking up the definiton of the word and its derivitives in Strong's doesn't "lead" us to the idea of abandonment. I even looked in my big “Word Meanings in the New Testament”, by Ralph Earle. He doesn’t give “lead” one word. The ASV says “bring…us not.” Phillips says, “keep us clear.” The Basic English Bible has, “not be put to the test.” And Goodspeed says, “do not subject us.” I believe that the idea of abandonment lies at a deeper level. My original source for this idea was a diaglot interlinear New Testament. Diaglot just means two-tongues. It has the Greek with the transliterated English below. Well, Strong's has referenced the word, eisphero, which means "inward carry". My Diaglot version has the Greek word, eisenegkes, and is translated "abandon." Some circumstantial evidence that helps me is, the puzzlement that comes on most folks when they really think about God leading them into temptation. We don't like a God like that. We can tolerate His allowing temptation to come at us, so we'll turn to Him in trust, get stronger, but we don't want that tempting to come from God, Himself. This reconciles nicely with 1Cor 10:13, which says God will not allow us to be tempted beyond that which we're able; and with the temptation make a way of escape.--------------------------------------------------------------------------------Now it’s time to take all those definitions and substitute them for the translated English words in the KJV. My hope and expectation is that you will have a fuller understanding of what Jesus told us about praying to God. TRANS-SUBSTITUTION6-But when you pray to God go in a storage chamber, and when you've shut the door, pray to your heavenly parent which is concealed; and your Father who looks at the concealed will give away to you in a fixed apparent place. 7-But when you pray to God, prate not tediously like the Gentiles; for they think they will be heard because of their excessive talk. 9-Pray to God in this way: Our parent which is in the eternal sky, venerated and holy be your authority and character.10-Please establish you realm. Let your determination govern the earth, as it does the heavenly eternity.11-Bestow and grant us today our needed subsistence; bread.12-And discharge our dues/faults, as we discharge that owed to us by others.13-And don't abandon us in the times of our proving or adversity, but rescue us, for yourself, from hurtful, culpability & malice(the Evil One). You are the ruler, with the force andapparent glory forever. Surely, so be it.http://www.asis.com/users/stag/bible/lordspray.html
Lord's prayer study
- Thread starter Christina
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I can't help but wonder if you share to help and encourage or if you share to show off the knowledge you think you have.We need to simplify things when trying to teach or correct, because so many people say the bible is hard to understand as it is. Let's try not to complicate things even more, by giving to much information at one time.Now concerning the Lords Prayer, Jesus said this is HOW you should pray not WHAT you should pray. I hate it when I hear people quote OUR FATHER WHO ART IN HEAVEN BLAH BLAHBLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH……What a thoughtless insincere repetition. If they were sincere they would study the word for themselves instead of waiting for someone else to tell them what to believe, what to say and what to do. My goodness, time is running out, time is so close. When are we going to pursue God with everything we’ve got? Nothing else matters, nothing!!Matthew 6:9-13Verse 9 Praise God for who He is and for what He’s done. King of Kings, Prince of Peace, Emanuel, Great I Am, Lover of my soul, lifter of my head. He gave us Jesus, the Holy Spirit, everything pertaining to life and Godliness. Forgiveness, healing, peace, love, joy there is so much to praise Him for. Verse 10 His kingdom has already come in the form of the Holy Spirit. With the Holy Spirit nothing is impossible. We have dominion over the earth again, that includes our own bodies. We have authority over satan and his power (demons).What is His will in heaven? Well what is heaven like? There is no sickness, war, slavery, murder, lies, deception, lust or depression. We must allow His perfect will in our lives. Verse 11 God said He has supplied all our needs food, shelter, and clothing. God also said man shall not live by bread alone. Thus we need to renew our minds daily in the word of God. Verse 12 We must confess our sins to God, ask forgiveness, and forgive others as well.Verse 13 God does not tempt or test us. Jesus told Peter, pray that you not be tempted, and I will pray that your faith will not fail. God will provide a way out, but, we have to be looking for a way out. Praise the Lord, God is so personal, and real. We can’t think of Him as just a character on a book.
(Sasha;61913)
I can't help but wonder if you share to help and encourage or if you share to show off the knowledge you think you have.We need to simplify things when trying to teach or correct, because so many people say the bible is hard to understand as it is. Let's try not to complicate things even more, by giving to much information at one time.Now concerning the Lords Prayer, Jesus said this is HOW you should pray not WHAT you should pray. I hate it when I hear people quote OUR FATHER WHO ART IN HEAVEN BLAH BLAHBLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH……What a thoughtless insincere repetition. If they were sincere they would study the word for themselves instead of waiting for someone else to tell them what to believe, what to say and what to do. My goodness, time is running out, time is so close. When are we going to pursue God with everything we’ve got? Nothing else matters, nothing!!Matthew 6:9-13Verse 9 Praise God for who He is and for what He’s done. King of Kings, Prince of Peace, Emanuel, Great I Am, Lover of my soul, lifter of my head. He gave us Jesus, the Holy Spirit, everything pertaining to life and Godliness. Forgiveness, healing, peace, love, joy there is so much to praise Him for. Verse 10 His kingdom has already come in the form of the Holy Spirit. With the Holy Spirit nothing is impossible. We have dominion over the earth again, that includes our own bodies. We have authority over satan and his power (demons).What is His will in heaven? Well what is heaven like? There is no sickness, war, slavery, murder, lies, deception, lust or depression. We must allow His perfect will in our lives. Verse 11 God said He has supplied all our needs food, shelter, and clothing. God also said man shall not live by bread alone. Thus we need to renew our minds daily in the word of God. Verse 12 We must confess our sins to God, ask forgiveness, and forgive others as well.Verse 13 God does not tempt or test us. Jesus told Peter, pray that you not be tempted, and I will pray that your faith will not fail. God will provide a way out, but, we have to be looking for a way out. Praise the Lord, God is so personal, and real. We can’t think of Him as just a character on a book.
Sasha, Christina would never post her knowledge for a showoff. She posted it because she'd love us and everybody enough. She wants herself, us, and everybody else to grow in the Faith. I thank God that people that can be so loving.
I can't help but wonder if you share to help and encourage or if you share to show off the knowledge you think you have.We need to simplify things when trying to teach or correct, because so many people say the bible is hard to understand as it is. Let's try not to complicate things even more, by giving to much information at one time.Now concerning the Lords Prayer, Jesus said this is HOW you should pray not WHAT you should pray. I hate it when I hear people quote OUR FATHER WHO ART IN HEAVEN BLAH BLAHBLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH……What a thoughtless insincere repetition. If they were sincere they would study the word for themselves instead of waiting for someone else to tell them what to believe, what to say and what to do. My goodness, time is running out, time is so close. When are we going to pursue God with everything we’ve got? Nothing else matters, nothing!!Matthew 6:9-13Verse 9 Praise God for who He is and for what He’s done. King of Kings, Prince of Peace, Emanuel, Great I Am, Lover of my soul, lifter of my head. He gave us Jesus, the Holy Spirit, everything pertaining to life and Godliness. Forgiveness, healing, peace, love, joy there is so much to praise Him for. Verse 10 His kingdom has already come in the form of the Holy Spirit. With the Holy Spirit nothing is impossible. We have dominion over the earth again, that includes our own bodies. We have authority over satan and his power (demons).What is His will in heaven? Well what is heaven like? There is no sickness, war, slavery, murder, lies, deception, lust or depression. We must allow His perfect will in our lives. Verse 11 God said He has supplied all our needs food, shelter, and clothing. God also said man shall not live by bread alone. Thus we need to renew our minds daily in the word of God. Verse 12 We must confess our sins to God, ask forgiveness, and forgive others as well.Verse 13 God does not tempt or test us. Jesus told Peter, pray that you not be tempted, and I will pray that your faith will not fail. God will provide a way out, but, we have to be looking for a way out. Praise the Lord, God is so personal, and real. We can’t think of Him as just a character on a book.
Sasha, Christina would never post her knowledge for a showoff. She posted it because she'd love us and everybody enough. She wants herself, us, and everybody else to grow in the Faith. I thank God that people that can be so loving.
It was just advice, I wasn't putting her down. But, to much info. and being overwhelmed can turn people off too. It is wonderful to see a brother-in-Christ stand up for his sister. Thank you Jordan for setting that example.
Sasha, we have all sorts of levels available to us in the Bible. The very message of this website is to delve deeper into what's there, and acknowledge that there might just be more than meets the eye. The Bible has been handed to us, translated from its original language. I think you can ask most honest folks about the matter and be perfectly happy with many of the English versions out there. I think you'll agree that our Father would make sure we have access to His Word.With that being said, studies like this are great, IMHO. As far as it being for Christina "showing off" what she knows - I certainly wouldn't have chosen a staff member on this website that does such. Furthermore, this study itself was taken from another website. She's not showing off very well if she copy and pastes, eh?
Swapfox is exactly right I post things for all levels I dont wright everything I post My goal is to educate if its to deep for you leave it on the shelf our goal is to have a web site that feeds All If I run across a Article that I think will feed some good solid info I post it. The goal is to only post what is Biblical not mans doctrine all posts are not everybody if you only want to stay in the milk (the light weight surface stuff) thats one's personal choice but others want to learn more. I do not post what I can not defend myself in scripture PSThank you Jordan and Swamp Fox
I've said nothing about the content of the post. Nor have I said it was shallow or to deep. I only implied it could be too much information. Some people are not at that level yet, and some see it as still the elementary things of the word. When Jesus taught, everyone could understand educated men and young children alike. Jesus kept it simple. My goal was not to offend anyone but to give advice. God bless.
No one was accusing you of anything we were simply explaining why some things are deep and some are not. As I said if its to deep for you put ot on the shelf. You are free to offer your advice, However your advice only applys to one segment of our readers,the ones where you are in your study , the site is for everybody of all levels. If we just post light weight fluff we only feed a few. In fact thats is the very problem with religion today thats all they teach is fluff God calls that fluff Milk for babes in the Word and God himself says get past the milk and learn the meat (deeper things) of my word so we are following God in teaching deeper things.If you think Jesus Words were simple you would be wrong, only on the surface is this true he says much more, this is what deeper study is about.
Not to deep me dear, to much.By the way I thought this was a study of the so called Lords prayer, not of Christina.
(Sasha;62074)
Not to deep me dear, to much.By the way I thought this was a study of the so called Lords prayer, not of Christina.
Not again, Sasha, what she post and will post is to do God's Work. God's wisdom and knowledge. If she wants to seek herself, and glorify herself and not the Body (John 7:18) she would have gone outside of scriptures to prove her flaw argument.... and against God.Enough already.
Not to deep me dear, to much.By the way I thought this was a study of the so called Lords prayer, not of Christina.
Not again, Sasha, what she post and will post is to do God's Work. God's wisdom and knowledge. If she wants to seek herself, and glorify herself and not the Body (John 7:18) she would have gone outside of scriptures to prove her flaw argument.... and against God.Enough already.
(Sasha;62074)
Not to deep me dear, to much.By the way I thought this was a study of the so called Lords prayer, not of Christina.
I have tried to be nice and just simply give you an explanation as Swampfox and Jordan haveSo you would understand OUR... OUR GOAL Here at CB if you notice I use words like "we" "our" goal ect meaning the entire staff and CB not just me except where needed.Ive colored the important words and made them large for you.However obviously you insist on being rude, insulting, an making false accusationsIf the teaching is to deep for you perhaps you should start studying. You attacked me for no other reason than you dont understand the post get yourself a KJV Strongs concordance and any body can understand the hebrew and greek. Plenty of people here do. So Please stop attacking me because of your lack of knowledge, that is your choice not mine.
Not to deep me dear, to much.By the way I thought this was a study of the so called Lords prayer, not of Christina.
I have tried to be nice and just simply give you an explanation as Swampfox and Jordan haveSo you would understand OUR... OUR GOAL Here at CB if you notice I use words like "we" "our" goal ect meaning the entire staff and CB not just me except where needed.Ive colored the important words and made them large for you.However obviously you insist on being rude, insulting, an making false accusationsIf the teaching is to deep for you perhaps you should start studying. You attacked me for no other reason than you dont understand the post get yourself a KJV Strongs concordance and any body can understand the hebrew and greek. Plenty of people here do. So Please stop attacking me because of your lack of knowledge, that is your choice not mine.
(Christina;62084)
However obviously you insist on being rude, insulting, an making false accusations. So Please stop attacking me because of your lack of knowledge, that is your choice not mine.
I said 'I can't help but wonder if you do this because...'You call that being rude, insulting, making false accusations and attacking you? I think your over reacting. If you feel the need to continue this conversation, please pm me anytime.
However obviously you insist on being rude, insulting, an making false accusations. So Please stop attacking me because of your lack of knowledge, that is your choice not mine.
I said 'I can't help but wonder if you do this because...'You call that being rude, insulting, making false accusations and attacking you? I think your over reacting. If you feel the need to continue this conversation, please pm me anytime.
No, but I think this hits the target of why she might have gotten angry. Of course being me, I say this could have gone a little bit too far.(Sasha;62074)
Not to deep me dear, to much.By the way I thought this was a study of the so called Lords prayer, not of Christina.
Anyway I love both of you...
Not to deep me dear, to much.By the way I thought this was a study of the so called Lords prayer, not of Christina.
Anyway I love both of you...
Let's see if we can get back on track here. So, I say again the same thing I said before.(Sasha;61913)
Concerning the Lords Prayer, Jesus said this is HOW you should pray not WHAT you should pray. I hate it when I hear people quote OUR FATHER WHO ART IN HEAVEN BLAH BLAHBLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH……What a thoughtless insincere repetition. If they were sincere they would study the word for themselves instead of waiting for someone else to tell them what to believe, what to say and what to do. My goodness, time is running out, time is so close. When are we going to pursue God with everything we’ve got? Nothing else matters, nothing!!Matthew 6:9-13Verse 9 Praise God for who He is and for what He’s done. King of Kings, Prince of Peace, Emanuel, Great I Am, Lover of my soul, lifter of my head. He gave us Jesus, the Holy Spirit, everything pertaining to life and Godliness. Forgiveness, healing, peace, love, joy there is so much to praise Him for. Verse 10 His kingdom has already come in the form of the Holy Spirit. With the Holy Spirit nothing is impossible. We have dominion over the earth again, that includes our own bodies. We have authority over satan and his power (demons).What is His will in heaven? Well what is heaven like? There is no sickness, war, slavery, murder, lies, deception, lust or depression. We must allow His perfect will in our lives. Verse 11 God said He has supplied all our needs food, shelter, and clothing. God also said man shall not live by bread alone. Thus we need to renew our minds daily in the word of God. Verse 12 We must confess our sins to God, ask forgiveness, and forgive others as well.Verse 13 God does not tempt or test us. Jesus told Peter, pray that you not be tempted, and I will pray that your faith will not fail. God will provide a way out, but, we have to be looking for a way out. Praise the Lord, God is so personal, and real. We can’t think of Him as just a character on a book.
Concerning the Lords Prayer, Jesus said this is HOW you should pray not WHAT you should pray. I hate it when I hear people quote OUR FATHER WHO ART IN HEAVEN BLAH BLAHBLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH……What a thoughtless insincere repetition. If they were sincere they would study the word for themselves instead of waiting for someone else to tell them what to believe, what to say and what to do. My goodness, time is running out, time is so close. When are we going to pursue God with everything we’ve got? Nothing else matters, nothing!!Matthew 6:9-13Verse 9 Praise God for who He is and for what He’s done. King of Kings, Prince of Peace, Emanuel, Great I Am, Lover of my soul, lifter of my head. He gave us Jesus, the Holy Spirit, everything pertaining to life and Godliness. Forgiveness, healing, peace, love, joy there is so much to praise Him for. Verse 10 His kingdom has already come in the form of the Holy Spirit. With the Holy Spirit nothing is impossible. We have dominion over the earth again, that includes our own bodies. We have authority over satan and his power (demons).What is His will in heaven? Well what is heaven like? There is no sickness, war, slavery, murder, lies, deception, lust or depression. We must allow His perfect will in our lives. Verse 11 God said He has supplied all our needs food, shelter, and clothing. God also said man shall not live by bread alone. Thus we need to renew our minds daily in the word of God. Verse 12 We must confess our sins to God, ask forgiveness, and forgive others as well.Verse 13 God does not tempt or test us. Jesus told Peter, pray that you not be tempted, and I will pray that your faith will not fail. God will provide a way out, but, we have to be looking for a way out. Praise the Lord, God is so personal, and real. We can’t think of Him as just a character on a book.
In terms of posting a study, I see Christina's position as well as Sasha's. There are times I really like to dig in and learn root words but there are other times when a quick summary would suffice. Depends on my mood and the amount of time I have. Perhaps a deep study could be posted then, at the end, a highlighted summary or general conclusion could be posted for those wishing to see the point of the study. Just a thought. I was interested in some of what I read in the opening post (OP). Thanks for taking the time to dig in and find that truth Christina. I know how time consuming that can be sometimes.
I am new to this particular forum and getting the hang of it.The Lord's Prayer is one of my favorite studies.May I start with just a simple thing to see if there are still people around and make sure my reply notification is working and all.Ok: What does Jesus do first, I mean - this is His big chance to teach prayer, so everything is sooo significant. First, He addresss whom He's talking to - but not My - "Our" ---not God,Lord Almighty,etc.--but "Father" this is actually quite significant as you all can imagine -stating the realtionship we have with the Creator of this entire Universe - that of children, brothers and sisters with their Father.I'm going to stop here ---I'm not a scholar or anything, but I LOVE the deep significance of the Lord's Prayer. And I get excited to share my thoughts.
Thank you all,Elaine
Well, no one has been around in a day - but maybe soon ---so I want to write a bit more.Our Father , --now He addresses where He is -typical ---Juliet, on yon balcony or whatever --You address where a person is. "Who art in Heaven." Sweet.Then what... what is the the next thing after addressing Him? Here He could have said ANYTHING!He says -"Hallowed be Thy NAME." What is that NAME ? This is very deep and rich.It's not "Jesus" obviously...talk amounst yourselves.
God bless,Elaine
Christina, I find your suggestion to be very helpful. Being new to Christianity I think it is an excellent suggestion to look up the translations and seek out the meaning with the text for myself. I don't think you gave too much information. I have read a lot of the Bible in the past few months and love it, and it speaks to me, but it is overwhelming and the message is a bit scattered when I can't link it all together from book to book from memory yet, and I'm not linking what sometimes seems like contradictions to unity. I think that using Strong's translations is an excellent way to unify and understand meanings in the Bible. Thank you.And about the Lord's prayer, I really like it. I do recite it, because I do agree with the words and I do want what the prayer parys for.
As I have stated a number of times already, I am pretty much brand new in my faith and have had my own questions about Jesus' teaching of the Lords Prayer. Two days ago, I asked God to clarify this for me and I received answers to my questions yesterday and those answers have been amplified with this topic.I am continually awestruck by the way God reveals things that were previously unclear to us when we ask Him for His guidance! Praise be to our Father in Heaven.
I agree it is the most awesome thing I experience and it never fails after years to amaze and fill me with awe.
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