Losing Your Salvation - Bible Verses

[marks]

Hebrews 12:8
But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.

If God does not chastise you, you are not His son. Plain and simple.

And if you are His son, He will chasten you, and it will be effective. That's the clear teaching of this passage. Yet your proclamation that the son of God may actually not be chastened to bring them to partake of God's holiness is in direct contradiction to this passage.

Again, if God does not chasten you, it means you are not His.

There is nothing in this passage about the child of God ceasing to be so. And in fact there is God's promise - His personal commitment to us - that we will receive His chastening, and that it will be effective in us.

Plain and simple. In context. And nothing in the Bible is going to contradict this, and so many other plainly stated passages which assure us of permanent rebirth.

Some Christians go back in to sin and refuse the Lord's correction... and are no longer legitimate children of God... hence the part about being bastards.

This is from a misinterpretation of this passage. The statement from God is that if you are chastened, it produces in your the peaceable fruits of righteousness. The statement from God is that all His children are chastened by Him. "No longer" is your insertion, to prove your point. But it's not what the Bible says.

Much love!

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

If God does not chastise you, you are not His son. Plain and simple.

God will always try to correct His Children... and those that refuse His correction get turned over to a reprobate mind as spoken of in Proverbs 1:23-33 and in Romans 1:26-32

Yet your proclamation that the son of God may actually not be chastened to bring them to partake of God's holiness is in direct contradiction to this passage.

You FAILED to see and understand that Proverbs 1:23-33 and in Romans 1:26-32 both show that some do not accept God's correction. Those suffering from Cherry Pickers Syndrome (CPS) do this frequently... only accepting part of what the Lord says and ignoring the rest.

But it's not what the Bible says.

True to cherry pickers form... taking one portion of what God says and ignoring or explaining away everything else He says about the subject.

I sure hope you can find a good Cherry Pickers Syndrome support group in your area to help you accept the whole counsel of God rather then continually putting your own preconceived into God's Word.

 

[atpollard]

NOTHING in Romans 1:18-32 suggests “Children of God” are being discussed. The passage is 100% directed at those under WRATH for rejecting God. That is the definition of the REPROBATE.

You are arguing that the REPROBATE do not have Eternal Security … no duh!

 

[marks]

God will always try to correct His Children... and those that refuse His correction get turned over to a reprobate mind

This is directly contradicted.

Hebrews 12:5-11 KJV
5) And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:
6) For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
7) If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
8) But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.
9) Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
10) For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.
11) Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.

By your words this is not always true, except that's not how it's written.

Do you think this passage is mis-translated? We can talk about that. If you think it's correctly translated, why do you not believe it? Do you think it doesn't apply? I'd say it applies directly. This passage is specified to the children of God, and not to Jews in the Old Testament who were under the Law covenant.

Much love!

 

[marks]

You FAILED to see and understand that Proverbs 1:23-33 and in Romans 1:26-32 both show that some do not accept God's correction. Those suffering from Cherry Pickers Syndrome (CPS) do this frequently... only accepting part of what the Lord says and ignoring the rest.

I'm not going to buy into your idea that one Scripture negates or cancels another. That's not the right way to interpret the Bible. It just comes down to what all heresies seem to, "It says THIS but I just know it actually means THAT."

Either it means what it says or it doesn't. You say it doesn't. I say it does.

Refusing to accept the truth of certain passages which refute your view would certainly seem to me to qualify for Cherry Picker's Syndrome (CPS).

Neither of these passages you've referenced say anything that contradicts Hebrews 12. You complain of others ignoring parts, I say that is the very thing you are doing.

Much love!

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

You are arguing that the REPROBATE do not have Eternal Security … no duh!

And God's Word speaks of those in the end times who will depart from the faith... meaning, it's possible for Christians to turn away from the Lord, reject His correction to come back to Him, and be lost.

This all means OSAS is false doctrine.

Refusing to accept the truth of certain passages which refute your view

Sadly, the passages I posted refute your citing a portion of what the Lord says on the subject

But, it's your life.... you are free to follow whatever doctrine happens to be popular these days

 

[marks]

Sadly, the passages I posted refute your citing a portion of what the Lord says on the subject

Hard to make out the grammar on that . . .

But "Scripture against Scripture" will never lead you to truth.

Much love!

 

[atpollard]

And God's Word speaks of those in the end times who will depart from the faith... meaning, it's possible for Christians to turn away from the Lord, reject His correction to come back to Him, and be lost.

This all means OSAS is false doctrine.

[1 Timothy 4:1-5 NKJV]

1 Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, 2 speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their own conscience seared with a hot iron, 3 forbidding to marry, [and commanding] to abstain from foods which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth. 4 For every creature of God [is] good, and nothing is to be refused if it is received with thanksgiving; 5 for it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.​

I find it ironic that in the ONE a place where it warns about departing from the faith, the context is a warning against people who will come teaching Legalism … like that of the “anti- Eternal Security” sect.

 

[St. SteVen]

... like that of the “anti- Eternal Security” sect.

LOL
Good point. The “anti- Eternal Security” position is a doctrinal sect.

To be clear, I don't object to the idea that there are two views on this.
Both views have biblical support. But they are in conflict.
Christians tend to take the position that only one view can be true.
Therefore the other view is "of the devil", even though it has biblical support. (sigh)

I find it ironic that in the ONE a place where it warns about departing from the faith, the context is a warning against people who will come teaching Legalism … like that of the “anti- Eternal Security” sect.

Indeed. That is ironic.
Must be "of the devil", even though it has biblical support. - LOL

Although, I can see how the enemy could benefit from a RELIGION of FEAR.
Such misery for those who buy into it. "Did I lose my salvation today?" Seriously? - LOL

It turns the Christian life into a high-wire act with the flames of hell licking at your feet.
One wrong move and you are toast. Feel the love.

 

[atpollard]

LOL
Good point. The “anti- Eternal Security” position is a doctrinal sect.

To be clear, I don't object to the idea that there are two views on this.
Both views have biblical support. But they are in conflict.
Christians tend to take the position that only one view can be true.
Therefore the other view is "of the devil", even though it has biblical support. (sigh)


Indeed. That is ironic.
Must be "of the devil", even though it has biblical support. - LOL

Although, I can see how the enemy could benefit from a RELIGION of FEAR.
Such misery for those who buy into it. "Did I lose my salvation today?" Seriously? - LOL

It turns the Christian life into a high-wire act with the flames of hell licking at your feet.
One wrong move and you are toast. Feel the love.

To be fair ... our church buildings are FULL of TARES complacent in their sin and deluded in the belief that LOVE is God's ONLY ATTRIBUTE. [So God must Love the man cheating on his wife and the two women married to each other and the drunk that terrorizes his children at night ... the gay "Priestess" leading the service said so!]

So they (NOSAS) are not wrong to rail against 'reprobate Christians'. They are simply wrong to assume that everyone that claims the name of Christ actually belongs to Him and was EVER saved.

• Matthew 7:23 [NASB] "And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; LEAVE ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'"

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

But "Scripture against Scripture" will never lead you to truth.

You posted a "portion" and "small part" of what God says without accepting the whole counsel of God and that is why you have not come to the Truth of what God's Word teaches.

warning against people who will come teaching Legalism … like that of the “anti- Eternal Security” sect.

The warning is against the OSAS people who reject obedience that God has called people to.

The OSAS continually teach that we do not have to obey the Lord and we can live for self, serving the pleasures of the flesh and still be saved.

How do they do that??? By teaching it's not possible for one to lose their salvation! That is a stumbling block to many who hear this and rather than walking with the Lord they continue in sin just saying that are walking with the Lord.

Most OSAS people's I've encountered personally have some secret sin they are trying to keep under wraps which is why they love the OSAS message so much... it';s a license to sin and it;s greasy gace!

When they croak someday and go south rather than north... they'll finally understand whassup!

there are two views on this.
Both views have biblical support. But they are in conflict.

If that were actually true, then God's contradicts Himself which means some of the things He has said are lies. This is another sin some of the OSAS engage in is claiming the Lord tells fibs sometimes which is a trick of the devil to deceive them in to ignoring and exsplaining away scripture that does not fit they OSAS doctrine.

No, God's Word does not contradict Itself, God did not lie, and there is NO biblical support for the OSAS position UNLESS one twists scripture and explains away or ignores other scriptures.

This is known as suffering from acute Cherry Pickers Syndrome which is the spiritual sickness caused by refusing to accept the whole counsel of God which is a trick of the devil as he is the one that authored not accepting all that the Lord says as we see in the Garden of Eden.

Nobody is saying there is not eternal security... we are saying that security is only applicable to those abiding IN CHRIST that bare fruit and according to Jesus in the end His angels will remove all those from His Kingdom that sin and do lawlessness which is yet another proof text that OSAS is false doctrine:

Matthew 13:41
The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil.

John 8:35
And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.

Romans 8:14
For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

If one wants to be secure... then they must turn away from sin, be led by the Holy Spirit and abide in Christ, bearing fruit, enduring there until the end of their lives.

What's odd is the OSAS peoples continually argue against being led by the Holy Spirit in to ALL Truth (John 16:13) - God's Word IS Truth (John 17:17) and abiding In Christ accepting ALL that the Lord has to say.

Weird how anyone claiming to be a Christian would have a problem with this, but leave it up to ther OSAS peoples to have a problem with it and claim the peace and joy of walking with the LKord is "legalism" which is another way 'ol slewfoot has deceived them. It's really sad.

 

[atpollard]

The warning is against the OSAS people who reject obedience that God has called people to.

Here, read it again:

[1 Timothy 4:1-5 NKJV]

1 Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, 2 speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their own conscience seared with a hot iron, 3 forbidding to marry, [and commanding] to abstain from foods which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth. 4 For every creature of God [is] good, and nothing is to be refused if it is received with thanksgiving; 5 for it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.​

​

That is a warning against LEGALISM not warning against belief in ETERNAL SECURITY.

 

[atpollard]

The OSAS continually teach that we do not have to obey the Lord and we can live for self, serving the pleasures of the flesh and still be saved.

How do they do that??? By teaching it's not possible for one to lose their salvation! That is a stumbling block to many who hear this and rather than walking with the Lord they continue in sin just saying that are walking with the Lord.

Most OSAS people's I've encountered personally have some secret sin they are trying to keep under wraps which is why they love the OSAS message so much... it';s a license to sin and it;s greasy gace!

When they croak someday and go south rather than north... they'll finally understand whassup!

You never addressed my questions to you:

Do you claim that only those that live lives of SINLESS PERFECTION are saved?
How can you justify your answer given how you reject Eternal Security?
Why does just one sin not disqualify you from heaven?

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

Galatians 6:7-8 (see Gen 8:22)
Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.

If one claims we DO reap corruption when we sin, then they are admitting they do not believe OSAS / Eternal security doctrine (and sadly many of their friends will forsake them!).... and if one claims we DO NOT reap what we sow, then according to Gal 6:7, that would be mocking God!

Your argument is with the things the Lord has said that... you reject or otherwise ignore or attempt to explain way away

Here's some more instructions for Christians in God's Word you can attempt to explain away but with no success in doing so....

1 John 3:6
Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not

1 John 2:4
He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

1 John 1:6
if we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

1 John 2:1
I write these things unto you, that ye sin not

This is the answer to your big letter questions homie.

 

[Hillsage]

I am so grateful to have had a teacher open my eyes in 1973 to see a truth which has been missed, by both sides, of this five hundred year old doctrinal debate. Both sides have a '1/2 truth' that they have made 'the whole truth'. The fact that both sides quote 'their side's' verses to refute the 'other side's verses' has gotten both sides no where. And both end up having a doctrine which is like "a cake not turned."

HOS 7:8 Ephraim mixes himself with the peoples; Ephraim is a cake not turned.

In other words, both un-turned sides of this doctrinal debate are 'HALF BAKED'.

Eternal Security verses, only apply to the salvation of the spirit.
Conditional Security verses, only apply to the salvation of the soul.

ES verses apply to the REWARD of GOING TO heaven.
CS verses apply to RECEIVING of REWARDS IN heaven.

ES verses only apply to ETERNAL forgiveness of sins.
CS verses only apply to TEMPORAL forgiveness of sins.

ES WORKS were achieved by Jesus for IMPUTED Righteousness.
CS WORKS are achieved by us by walking in IMPARTED Righteousness.

I can go on and on with these types of analogies. Analogies which need lots of scriptures correctly explained. Especially for those who are half burned and stuck. It is much better to be fully baked and free.
We should not be unequally "MIXED" like Ephraim.

 

[atpollard]

I am so grateful to have had a teacher open my eyes in 1973 to see a truth which has been missed, by both sides, of this five hundred year old doctrinal debate. Both sides have a '1/2 truth' that they have made 'the whole truth'. The fact that both sides quote 'their side's' verses to refute the 'other side's verses' has gotten both sides no where. And both end up having a doctrine which is like "a cake not turned."

HOS 7:8 Ephraim mixes himself with the peoples; Ephraim is a cake not turned.

In other words, both un-turned sides of this doctrinal debate are 'HALF BAKED'.

Eternal Security verses, only apply to the salvation of the spirit.
Conditional Security verses, only apply to the salvation of the soul.

ES verses apply to the REWARD of GOING TO heaven.
CS verses apply to RECEIVING of REWARDS IN heaven.

ES verses only apply to ETERNAL forgiveness of sins.
CS verses only apply to TEMPORAL forgiveness of sins.

ES WORKS were achieved by Jesus for IMPUTED Righteousness.
CS WORKS are achieved by us by walking in IMPARTED Righteousness.

I can go on and on with these types of analogies. Analogies which need lots of scriptures correctly explained. Especially for those who are half burned and stuck. It is much better to be fully baked and free.
We should not be unequally "MIXED" like Ephraim.

Not a bad hypothesis, but do you have any Scriptural support beyond Hosea 7?

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

Eternal Security verses, only apply to the salvation of the spirit.

So is one that has been "saved of the spirit" as you say.... were to go back to living in sin, this means they will go to Heaven anyway?

 

[atpollard]

So is one that has been "saved of the spirit" as you say.... were to go back to living in sin, this means they will go to Heaven anyway?

What does Paul say about rewards?

1 Corinthians 3:10-15 [NASB20]
10 According to the grace of God which was given to me, like a wise master builder I laid a foundation, and another is building on it. But each person must be careful how he builds on it. 11 For no one can lay a foundation other than the one which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if anyone builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, [or] straw, 13 each one's work will become evident; for the day will show it because it is [to be] revealed with fire, and the fire itself will test the quality of each one's work. 14 If anyone's work which he has built on it remains, he will receive a reward. 15 If anyone's work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet [only] so as through fire.

 

[marks]

I am so grateful to have had a teacher open my eyes in 1973 to see a truth which has been missed, by both sides, of this five hundred year old doctrinal debate. Both sides have a '1/2 truth' that they have made 'the whole truth'. The fact that both sides quote 'their side's' verses to refute the 'other side's verses' has gotten both sides no where. And both end up having a doctrine which is like "a cake not turned."

HOS 7:8 Ephraim mixes himself with the peoples; Ephraim is a cake not turned.

In other words, both un-turned sides of this doctrinal debate are 'HALF BAKED'.

Eternal Security verses, only apply to the salvation of the spirit.
Conditional Security verses, only apply to the salvation of the soul.

ES verses apply to the REWARD of GOING TO heaven.
CS verses apply to RECEIVING of REWARDS IN heaven.

ES verses only apply to ETERNAL forgiveness of sins.
CS verses only apply to TEMPORAL forgiveness of sins.

ES WORKS were achieved by Jesus for IMPUTED Righteousness.
CS WORKS are achieved by us by walking in IMPARTED Righteousness.

I can go on and on with these types of analogies. Analogies which need lots of scriptures correctly explained. Especially for those who are half burned and stuck. It is much better to be fully baked and free.
We should not be unequally "MIXED" like Ephraim.

That's really insightful!

I hope others will take the time to think through what you are saying here. Rightly divided.

Much love!

 

[atpollard]

Galatians 6:7-8 (see Gen 8:22)
Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.

If one claims we DO reap corruption when we sin, then they are admitting they do not believe OSAS / Eternal security doctrine (and sadly many of their friends will forsake them!).... and if one claims we DO NOT reap what we sow, then according to Gal 6:7, that would be mocking God!

Your argument is with the things the Lord has said that... you reject or otherwise ignore or attempt to explain way away

Here's some more instructions for Christians in God's Word you can attempt to explain away but with no success in doing so....

1 John 3:6
Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not

1 John 2:4
He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

1 John 1:6
if we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

1 John 2:1
I write these things unto you, that ye sin not

This is the answer to your big letter questions homie.

non sequitur.
Answer the questions:

Do you claim that only those that live lives of SINLESS PERFECTION are saved?
Does just one sin disqualify you from heaven?