Love Your Enemies

[farouk]

I am sorry farouk but but your statement is vague and I am not sure what you mean. Maybe you can elaborate.

j:

Please refer to my previous posts.

You want to argue maybe; I don't.

 

[jiggyfly]

j:

Please refer to my previous posts.

You want to argue maybe; I don't.

Nah, wasn't wanting to argue, just wanted to be clear about your opinion concerning the topic, but since your not willing or just incapable to elaborate and make it clear I will disregard your post, no worries here.

 

[farouk]

Nah, wasn't wanting to argue, just wanted to be clear about your opinion concerning the topic, but since your not willing or just incapable to elaborate and make it clear I will disregard your post, no worries here.

j:

All you need is a concordance for you to look up the many instances of the Lord Jesus referring to hell in the Gospels, and reading round you will see their context; you see, there is no need to disregard anything unless you have already decided to.

 

[jiggyfly]

j:

All you need is a concordance for you to look up the many instances of the Lord Jesus referring to hell in the Gospels, and reading round you will see their context; you see, there is no need to disregard anything unless you have already decided to.

I have and it didn't take long before I started to recognize the error of the KJV and other translations that follow the same mistranslations and misrepresentation.
Do you have a Greek lexicon? You may want to try a better translation like Young's literal or Knoch's concordant.

 

[farouk]

I have and it didn't take long before I started to recognize the error of the KJV and other translations that follow the same mistranslations and misrepresentation.
Do you have a Greek lexicon? You may want to try a better translation like Young's literal or Knoch's concordant.

Coupled with your ostensibly kind advice seems to be an agenda to deny the impact of the Lord Jesus' warnings of eternal judgment.

 

[jiggyfly]

Coupled with your ostensibly kind advice seems to be an agenda to deny the impact of the Lord Jesus' warnings of eternal judgment.

Nah, I just deny KJV translation of what Jesus was warning us.

P.S. I'll just ignore your snide remark about my "kind advice" being ostensible.

 

[Robinson Crusoe]

I have and it didn't take long before I started to recognize the error of the KJV and other translations that follow the same mistranslations and misrepresentation.
Do you have a Greek lexicon? You may want to try a better translation like Young's literal or Knoch's concordant.

I have Young's Literal Translation and Young's Analytical Concordance,

Revelations 20: 11-15 (Young's Literal Translation),

"And I saw a great white throne, and Him who is sitting upon it, from whose face the earth and the heaven did flee away, and place was not found for them; and I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and scrolls were opened, and another scroll was opened, which is that of the life, and the dead were judged out of the things written in the scrolls -- according to their works; and the sea did give up those dead in it, and the death and the hades did give up the dead in them, and they were judged, each one according to their works; and the death and the hades were cast to the lake of the fire -- this [is] the second death; and if any one was not found written in the scroll of the life, he was cast to the lake of the fire."

 

[Martin W.]

I have seen a lot of Christians become enemies .........
............by arguing over what exactly loving your enemies really means .....

Martin W.

 

[Martin W.]

I have seen groups of Christians become enemies defending their cherished bible translation
I have not observed much love between those groups.
But each of those groups using their own translations will tell you to love your enemies.

 

[Martin W.]

It is good when Christians love each other ........
but it is not really that big of a deal because ......
even sinners love those who love them.....

(Those were the words of Jesus by the way)



I find that when people do not read all of a chapter in the bible they completely
mis-understand the one selected verse they are trying to build a doctrine on.
A lot of people enjoy constructing their own pet doctrines and teachings using these methods.
Read Luke 6 again and you will see it is mainly a lecture from Jesus on being a good Christian.
A sub context deals with enemies but that was never the main message.

 

[farouk]

Nah, I just deny KJV translation of what Jesus was warning us.

P.S. I'll just ignore your snide remark about my "kind advice" being ostensible.

j: is this your example of what it is to be snide? Hell is real.

 

[jiggyfly]

j: is this your example of what it is to be snide? Hell is real.

Yes hell is real but it could not possibly be a place of endless torment because of the scriptural testimony to the contrary.

On a side note, my example of snide is your "Coupled with your ostensibly kind advice" remark and has nothing to do with your posts concerning hell, but since you are not wanting to argue we can just drop the whole thing.

I have Young's Literal Translation and Young's Analytical Concordance,

Revelations 20: 11-15 (Young's Literal Translation),

"And I saw a great white throne, and Him who is sitting upon it, from whose face the earth and the heaven did flee away, and place was not found for them; and I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and scrolls were opened, and another scroll was opened, which is that of the life, and the dead were judged out of the things written in the scrolls -- according to their works; and the sea did give up those dead in it, and the death and the hades did give up the dead in them, and they were judged, each one according to their works; and the death and the hades were cast to the lake of the fire -- this [is] the second death; and if any one was not found written in the scroll of the life, he was cast to the lake of the fire."

OK so how does this fit in with the discussion, can you elaborate?

It is good when Christians love each other ........
but it is not really that big of a deal because ......
even sinners love those who love them.....

(Those were the words of Jesus by the way)



I find that when people do not read all of a chapter in the bible they completely
mis-understand the one selected verse they are trying to build a doctrine on.
A lot of people enjoy constructing their own pet doctrines and teachings using these methods.
Read Luke 6 again and you will see it is mainly a lecture from Jesus on being a good Christian.
A sub context deals with enemies but that was never the main message.

Not sure if you read all the posts but the point of the OP being made is not about us or how we should act. I used this scripture text because in it Christ reveals something of His Father's character that seems to conflict with much of the Christian religion, ie; endless torment and or annihilation. This is the point I was hoping would be discussed.

 

[farouk]

j: It won't help to say you agree with Scripture about hell, but then to deny it. But I think I should bow out of this discussion.

 

[Martin W.]

Yes hell is real but it could not possibly be a place of endless torment because of the scriptural testimony to the contrary.

Not sure if you read all the posts but the point of the OP being made is not about us or how we should act. I used this scripture text because in it Christ reveals something of His Father's character that seems to conflict with much of the Christian religion, ie; endless torment and or annihilation. This is the point I was hoping would be discussed.

jiggyfly

You have overlooked something important.
Yes , the characters' of God and Christ make it difficult to grasp eternal punishment but the person who rejects them has rejected the good characteristics of God as well. When you reject something you do not have it.

A person who rejects God and rejects eternal life by default has chosen eternal punishment and eternal fire (along with the devil and his angels who also reject God).

For example you may be the most kind caring and loving person I could ever hope to meet jiggyfly, but if I reject you and your good character I will not partake in it.

If I do not partake in your kindness I cannot blame you for it right?

Eternal fire is prepared for the devil and his angels. Blame them.

Best regards
Martin

 

[jiggyfly]

jiggyfly

You have overlooked something important.
Yes , the characters' of God and Christ make it difficult to grasp eternal punishment but the person who rejects them has rejected the good characteristics of God as well. When you reject something you do not have it.

A person who rejects God and rejects eternal life by default has chosen eternal punishment and eternal fire (along with the devil and his angels who also reject God).


Best regards
Martin

You have some scripture to support

 

[Robinson Crusoe]

OK so how does this fit in with the discussion, can you elaborate?

It appears to contradict your position; it seems strange that you "didn't" see that.

...Christ reveals something of His Father's character that seems to conflict with much of the Christian religion, ie; endless torment and or annihilation.

I don't see a real conflict in this; where do you?

 

[jiggyfly]

It appears to contradict your position; it seems strange that you "didn't" see that.




I don't see a real conflict in this; where do you?

You honestly don't see a conflict between " you will truly be acting as children of the Most High, for he is kind to the unthankful and to those who are wicked." and the religious paradigm of endless torment?

 

[Martin W.]

You have some scripture to support

I find that if I was to do your bible study for you , it would be of no benefit to either of us.

Thanks
Martin

 

[Robinson Crusoe]

You honestly don't see a conflict between "[font="tahoma][size="2"] you will truly be acting as children of the Most High, for he is kind to the unthankful and to those who are wicked." and the religious paradigm of endless torment?
[/size][/font]

No, I don't. Of course, I can read, but so can you. So, what is your problem?

 

[jiggyfly]

No, I don't. Of course, I can read, but so can you. So, what is your problem?

You seem to think that tormenting someone forever is kind. I think it is plain ludicrous to say there is no conflict, but thats me and I have absolutely nothing vested in religious and traditional paradigm.

I find that if I was to do your bible study for you , it would be of no benefit to either of us.

Thanks
Martin

Thats what I thought, you know you could just say no.