LOVING MUSLIMS

[This Vale Of Tears]

Something needs to be said here

-- nobody disputes the fact that many Muslims are nice people
-- some atheists are even nicer ... so what ?

-- I do not think Americans have ever had an ingrained dislike for Muslims
-- rather it is the Muslims who tend to dislike Americans.
-- Muslims dislike the Son of God (they deny God even has a son)
-- Most Muslims usually hate Israel and the Jews ... the Jews do not hate the Muslims

--If a Muslim in a Muslim country coverts to Christianity they will likely be killed
--There is a limit to Muslim "niceness"

It's an important thing to understand. When I talk about the evils if Islam, I always get a retort from the sycophants that not all Muslims are bad (as if I claimed they were!) There can be good people in an evil religion, but that religion is still evil and has, throughout its 1300 year history and today, inflicted more suffering, bloodshed, and misery than any other religion in the history of man. Islamic nations are ruled by religion and fear. They execute people for all manner of offenses, real or imagined, and do so in the public square. Life in an Islamic country is a life of terror, anger, poverty, and despair. And wherever Islam spreads, like a metastasizing cancer, it brings death and misery.

But when any of this is mentioned, the self-righteous retort comes back, "Well not all Muslims bomb people or believe in violence". Oh really? I would argue that silence is consent when it comes to the violence committed in the name of Islam. If any Christian committed these acts, they would be roundly condemned in every corner of Christianity. There is simply no fertile soil in the Church for bloodshed and terrorism in the name of God. Though a few Muslims do decry the violence, the silence among the majority of Muslims speaks volumes. And in countries dominated by Muslims, polls have found that the majority actually approve of suicide bombings and other acts of terror to advance the religion.

Another dunderheaded response I get is that Christians have had their scandals and misdeeds as well. It's almost as if to say that if any Christian does something wrong in the name of Christianity then Christianity is equal to Islam in offenses. In this argument there is no consideration for proportion, history, or the incalculable good that Christians have been to the whole world in bringing Western Civilization with all its blessings to every continent on earth. Muslims sent armies and Christians sent missionaries. Muslims carried the sword and Christians carried the gospel of peace. There's simply no comparison both today and historically between Christianity and Islam.

But the sycophants are stuck on stupid.

 

[Purity]

I think you need to read Genesis 22 again .... those blessings are thru Issac which leads to Christ whom the Muslims reject

True , Ismael's descendants were blessed by becoming numerous Gen 17:20
Everything was probably fine until that strange character Muhammad came along and started the Islam we know today.

Remember (according to Muslims) Muhammad supersedes Christ as prophet , savior , and redeemer.
If this is not anti-Christ then what is it ?
if Muhammad is not a counterfeit- Christ then what is he ?
In Mecca they have a sign saying ..... "God has no son"

The christian bible says ..... "He who denies the Son denies the father" ... and is anti-Christ
1 John 2:22
1 John 2:23
When the anti-Christ of prophecy appears .... he could very well be an Imam .... or maybe Mohammed himself claiming to come back from the dead .... or something similar ... in an instant he will have 1.6 billion followers

We must be cautious ... indeed many Muslims are "nice" .... but their religion is deeply ingrained in them and that is what counts in the end

Doubtless they are deceived in their own religion but this can be said of Christianity who are as far astray from the True living God as the Muslim is from accepting Christ as saviour. Once he is revealed to them as saviour their conversion will happen very quickly.

Their is a beautiful prophecy which you may have read and is found in Isaiah 19:2-4

Do you know it?

 

[Arnie Manitoba]

If a person from a "Christian country" bombed a bus load of Muslims ..... when he got home we would punish him as a criminal and murderer .

If a Muslim bombs a busload of innocent people they are welcomed home as heroes.

Quite a difference.

 

[Purity]

If a person from a "Christian country" bombed a bus load of Muslims ..... when he got home we would punish him as a criminal and murderer .

If a Muslim bombs a busload of innocent people they are welcomed home as heroes.

Quite a difference.

Isa 19:2-4 do you know the prophecy?

 

[Arnie Manitoba]

Isa 19:2-4 do you know the prophecy?

Yes very well .... and I have alluded to it before ..... but it is still future and does not include all the descendants of Ishmael

And unlike you .... I fail to see anything "beautiful" about the chapter (from a Muslim point of view)

It reads to me that God has to raise his hand against them before they smarten up ..... and the raised hand is via the Jews in Israel .... the same Israel a lot of people feel is irrelevant in the present and in the future ....

In that day the Egyptians will become weaklings. They will shudder with fear at the uplifted hand that the Lord Almighty raises against them ....
....... And the land of Judah will bring terror to the Egyptians; everyone to whom Judah is mentioned will be terrified, because of what the Lord Almighty is planning against them.

 

[Purity]

Yes very well .... and I have alluded to it before ..... but it is still future and does not include all the descendants of Ishmael

And unlike you .... I fail to see anything "beautiful" about the chapter (from a Muslim point of view)

It reads to me that God has to raise his hand against them before they smarten up ..... and the raised hand is via the Jews in Israel .... the same Israel a lot of people feel is irrelevant in the present and in the future ....

In that day the Egyptians will become weaklings. They will shudder with fear at the uplifted hand that the Lord Almighty raises against them ....
....... And the land of Judah will bring terror to the Egyptians; everyone to whom Judah is mentioned will be terrified, because of what the Lord Almighty is planning against them.

The chapters is speaking to a future time when God will smite and HEAL Egypt.

The healing is one aspect worthy of beauty!

Before this event takes place Christ and his saints will discipline the Arabs and then move westwards towards Egypt. In Isaiah 19 is shown to be by invitation of the sorely oppressed Egyptians who will be suffering at the hands of "a cruel lord". Christ's entry into Egypt is part of a predetermined plan by God to provide a base for the return of purged and redeemed Israel to the land of their fathers (Isa. 11:15). Because of its proximity to the Covenant Land Egypt occupies an important place in the purpose of God; this purpose is fully outlined in Isaiah 19 which also provides details of the great crisis to descend upon Egypt during "the time of trouble such as never was".

Isaiah 19:1 "The burden of Egypt" Roth translates it "The oracle on Egypt".

The Hebrew word massah is from the root nasah - to lift, to raise up, therefore something that is heavy or burdensome, requiring to be lifted. This chapter describes the 'burden of Egypt' through which it will be humbled, disciplined and healed.

"Behold, Yahweh rideth upon a swift cloud" – This is the imagery of Rev. 10 and describes the movement of the Rainbowed Angel fresh from victory over the Arabs, westwards towards Egypt.

A 'cloud' is representative of a multitude (Heb. 12:1) and here portrays the glorified saints, the cherubic chariot or vehicle upon which Yahweh (the Lord Jesus Christ) will ride into Egypt. However, as the cloud is described as 'swift', a word signifying light and therefore rapid in movement (qal) the inference is that not all the saints will accompany Christ on this mission but only a representative multitude. Doubtless much work will remain for the remainder among the Arab peoples.

The eye of faith can see when this takes place their idols shall be moved at his presence. Its all about destroying the idolatry which is in the land and has shackled Egyptians for ages.

I like it how they will seek their false religion in vain (Mohammedism - "the idols" of Isa 19:3 also see Isa 8:19)

Its a beautiful prophecy which will see the eventual healing of two opposing religions.

Islam and Judaism.

Even so come Lord Jesus

 

[Pelaides]

How is possible for christians to love anybody else when we dont love(or even like)each other.

 

[Suhar]

How is possible for christians to love anybody else when we dont love(or even like)each other.

You are a spokesman for Christians?
Speak for yourself only.

 

[Pelaides]

You are a spokesman for Christians?
Speak for yourself only.

This is exactly what i am talking about.so much hatred and hostility.The muslims and Jews look at us and shake their heads i.

 

[Suhar]

This is exactly what i am talking about.so much hatred and hostility.The muslims and Jews look at us and shake their heads i.

Oh. I see. just because I do not want you to speak for me I am "hostile"? You see hostility where there is none.

 

[Purity]

How is possible for christians to love anybody else when we dont love(or even like)each other.

Well they would not be Christians would they 1 Cor 3:3

 

[Selene]

How is possible for christians to love anybody else when we dont love(or even like)each other.

It is only with God that all things are possible. I understand where you are coming from. When we are hurt by someone, we don't forgive instantly. It often takes time to forgive. But this is why we need to always turn to Christ. Christ always walks beside us, and from time to time, we will stumble and fall.....and Christ is there beside us extending His hand to help us up when we fall so we can continue our walk beside Him.

As Christians, we are called to love our enemies.....and that is even harder. It's much easier to love your family and friends....simply because they are your family and friends. It's much harder to love and even forgive the enemy. This is where we would really need Christ to hold us up as we limp beside Him.

 

[Pelaides]

Well they would not be Christians would they 1 Cor 3:3

I have heard people on this forum say,mormons,jehova witnesses,and catholics are not christians?

It is only with God that all things are possible. I understand where you are coming from. When we are hurt by someone, we don't forgive instantly. It often takes time to forgive. But this is why we need to always turn to Christ. Christ always walks beside us, and from time to time, we will stumble and fall.....and Christ is there beside us extending His hand to help us up when we fall so we can continue our walk beside Him.

As Christians, we are called to love our enemies.....and that is even harder. It's much easier to love your family and friends....simply because they are your family and friends. It's much harder to love and even forgive the enemy. This is where we would really need Christ to hold us up as we limp beside Him.

You should know what i am talking about.I have seen you many times,on this forum and others,fending off the attacks of so called christians who consider catholics their enemy.

 

[Suhar]

I have heard people on this forum say,mormons,jehova witnesses,and catholics are not christians?

[SIZE=medium]Just because people call themselves Christians it does not mean that they are. There is nothing hostile or hateful about it.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]Nazi soldiers had “God is with us” on the inside of their belts. If you say that they were not Christians it does not mean that you hate them.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]In case of Mormons they believe that god is just some guy who lives on the planet Kolob, that Jesus and Satan are brothers and that when Mormons die they will become gods just like the one they worship now. They believe that holy underwear is what protects them from sin. Does it sounds like Christian to you? [/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]I am not hostile toward Mormons nor do I hate them I just know that they are not Christians because of the doctrine they follow.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]Christians are those who believe that Jesus is a Son of God the only Son. He is the only way and the only Savior. [/SIZE]

 

[Pelaides]

[SIZE=medium]Just because people call themselves Christians it does not mean that they are. There is nothing hostile or hateful about it.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]Nazi soldiers had “God is with us” on the inside of their belts. If you say that they were not Christians it does not mean that you hate them.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]In case of Mormons they believe that god is just some guy who lives on the planet Kolob, that Jesus and Satan are brothers and that when Mormons die they will become gods just like the one they worship now. They believe that holy underwear is what protects them from sin. Does it sounds like Christian to you? [/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]I am not hostile toward Mormons nor do I hate them I just know that they are not Christians because of the doctrine they follow.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]Christians are those who believe that Jesus is a Son of God the only Son. He is the only way and the only Savior. [/SIZE]

Very good my brother.

 

[Arnie Manitoba]

We have a lot of citizens immigrate from England to Canada because as they say .... "we have lost our country" .... here is a video of a Brit who visited her home town and was told by a Muslim she would burn in hell because she was not a Muslim ..... and the only time a Muslim will obey the law of the land is if it is Sharia law.

Here is her experience .... not pleasant

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=07b_1368058553

 

[Purity]

I have heard people on this forum say,mormons,jehova witnesses,and catholics are not christians?

The comment was in response to a Christian not loving a Christian.

Have ye not read 1 John 3:17; 1 John 4:20,21

One would not be a Christian if he did not love his brother.

Purity

 

[This Vale Of Tears]

[SIZE=medium]Just because people call themselves Christians it does not mean that they are. There is nothing hostile or hateful about it.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]Nazi soldiers had “God is with us” on the inside of their belts. If you say that they were not Christians it does not mean that you hate them.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]In case of Mormons they believe that god is just some guy who lives on the planet Kolob, that Jesus and Satan are brothers and that when Mormons die they will become gods just like the one they worship now. They believe that holy underwear is what protects them from sin. Does it sounds like Christian to you? [/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]I am not hostile toward Mormons nor do I hate them I just know that they are not Christians because of the doctrine they follow.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]Christians are those who believe that Jesus is a Son of God the only Son. He is the only way and the only Savior. [/SIZE]

This is always a tough debate because though opinions are strong on the subject of whether or not Mormons are Christians, there is merit to both sides. I tend to say that Mormons are Christians based on their actions, but not Christians based on their doctrine which is at variance from traditional Christian orthodoxy. But I further separate Mormons today, who can be sincere in their intent to follow Christ and live according to Christian principles, and founders, particularly Joseph Smith, who was a deceiver, con artist, and an overall indecent man. I separate the Mormons at the beginning of the 20th century who were highly racist from the Mormons at the end of the 20th century who have abandoned all bigotry. In other words, I don't hold their past against them and I judge them by the merits of how they practice their faith today.

And how do I esteem today's Mormons? Very favorably. They operate world wide charities, build hospitals, schools, and churches in third world nations, and do all they can to live lives of charity, compassion, and good conscience.

In the end, I wonder just how important doctrine really is when it comes to who's going to heaven and who doesn't, who knows Jesus and who's just pretending. I question the notion that God has made himself so unapproachable that imperfect doctrine can isolate people from his love. I know that doctrine is important and that Christian orthodoxy is something the church fathers fought for and defended throughout the centuries. But I wonder if we make doctrine so important that it shuts out those who want to approach God with a sincere heart but misguided belief. I furthermore wonder, if doctrine were a deciding factor, and only adherence to the right doctrine will save a person....

can any Protestant be saved?

 

[Purity]

This is always a tough debate because though opinions are strong on the subject of whether or not Mormons are Christians, there is merit to both sides. I tend to say that Mormons are Christians based on their actions, but not Christians based on their doctrine which is at variance from traditional Christian orthodoxy.

Greetings Tears

What if traditional Christian Orthodoxy is astray? Traditional Judaism was astray at his first coming so what makes you think mainstream Christianity is not corrupted also? Actually, of all those religious inhabitants of Israel at the time of Christ how many were:

1. Searching the Scripture's daily for his coming
2. Distancing themselves from mainstream religious practices
3. Held the true spirit of the Law in their hearts and practice those things daily

Ultimately the Lord Jesus Christ will be the final judge on the above at his coming, and quite frankly anyone who is willing to suggest traditional orthodoxy is truth should well spend some time studying the development of Judaism and Christianity side by side.

Sobering to say the least.

Purity

In the end, I wonder just how important doctrine really is when it comes to who's going to heaven and who doesn't, who knows Jesus and who's just pretending.
can any Protestant be saved?

There is an irony here that begs your further attention.

Show us where Heaven is the reward of the saints?

And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him. (Dan 7:27)

Powerful little word "under", wouldn't you say?

Your heaven going theology has its roots in platonic teaching.

If only the blindfold was removed how you would see a deeper and far life changing truth.

 

[Suhar]

can any Protestant be saved?

[SIZE=16pt]Good thing Catholics do not get to decide.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt]I know you think that Catholicism is the only true faith but only because you do not understand that God is so much greater then you can imagine. Direct access to God cannot be controlled by some guy in fancy nightgown.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt]As for Mormons… there is no debate. People who believe that some day they will be equal to God Himself are nothing more then followers of some delusional sect, which uses Christian names.[/SIZE]