LOVING MUSLIMS

[By Grace Alone]

True that.

Actually, not true at all.

 

[Selene]

[SIZE=medium]Let’s open a whole new can of worms! Which part of Revelation 17-18 does not fit USA? We do not kill saints? But we do kill tens of millions of unborn that are saints since they did not even get to be born.[/SIZE]

I should start new topic on this.

[SIZE=medium].[/SIZE]

The Harlot of Babylon is Nero or the Roman Empire. John predicted the fall of the Roman Empire and it did fall.

 

[Purity]

Not all Catholics end with "It's a great mystery". Also, our doctrines are not easily refuted. If you want to know the answers to your questions, it's always best to go to a Catholic apologist.

True, I meet one who when pressed to provide Scripture support would say, "The Church is the final authourity on such matters I will trust in her over the Word of God".

This is worse than the one who claims a mystery as they have departed from the Holy Word to the doctrines of men.

Here is a list of erroneous teachings...take your pick

1. TRINITY

2. SUNDAY SACREDNESS

3. SPRINKLING BAPTISM

4. EUCHARIST

5. SACRAMENTS

6. EUCHARIST

7. SPRINKLING BAPTISM

8. PENANCE

9. EXTREME UNCTION

10. MARY CO-MEDIATRIX

11. EVER-VIRGIN MARY

12. INDULGENCES

13. PURGATORY

14. TRADITION

15. INFANT BAPTISM

16. AURICULAR CONFESSION

17. PILGRAMAGES

18. THE MASS

19. OMISSION OF THE CUP

20. PETER AND THE KEYS

21. PETER AND THE ROCK

22. IMACULATE CONCEPTION

23. INVOCATION OF SAINTS

24. ASSUMPION OF MARY TO HEAVEN

25. MARY A CO-MEDATRIX

26. IMMORTALITY OF THE SOUL

27. ETERNAL TORMENT OF UNBLIEVERS

28. EXTREME UNCTION

29. SUNDAY SACREDNESS

30. PAPAL INFALABILITY

31. IMPECCABILITY OF CHRIST

32. MARY THE MOTHER OF GOD

Enough to make ones stomach churn.

 

[Selene]

True, I meet one who when pressed to provide Scripture support would say, "The Church is the final authourity on such matters I will trust in her over the Word of God".

This is worse than the one who claims a mystery as they have departed from the Holy Word to the doctrines of men.

Here is a list of erroneous teachings...take your pick

1. TRINITY

I pick the very first one......Trinity. <_< We believe that there is three persons in one God and that Jesus is the Second Person in the Holy Trinity. Before I even begin, I would like to ask you this question. Do you believe that Jesus is God?

 

[This Vale Of Tears]

Well the Great Harlot is identified in Rev 17.


That doesn't answer the question.


A more appropriate question for you to ask would be "if Roman Catholicism is the Mother Harlot who then are her daughters?

Ok, Ellen G. White, so the Roman Catholic Church is the harlot? Do you understand that John was writing to an audience who would witness the things he wrote about? Even from the very first verse, it's made clear that Revelation was written about events soon to come to pass. The harlot John spoke of has no contemporary application whatsoever.

Firstly has not Rome always claimed to be the Mother Church? And does she not see Christianity as being her disobedient daughters?

The Church has always taken on a motherly responsibility. You separate the Church from Christianity out of a bent to cast aspersions on the Catholic Church. But the church cannot be separated from Christianity. They're one and the same.


During the Tridentine council the papacy described itself as being a "Roman Church" and "The Mother and Mistress of all churches". Now if we went back in history could we not prove also that her daughters were bought forth by her adulterous unions with the "kings of the earth"?
What crap is this?



Is not the establishment of the church of England a case in point?

The church of England has nothing to do with the Catholic Church. The See of Canterbury is not in communion with the See of Rome, and they are furthermore cut off from apostolic succession. Anglicans were the first to call themselves "Protestants".
Was it not originally Roman in origin?


No
Surely I am not sharing history which is unknown to you?

I'm sure you are



Rome refused the request of King Henry VIII for a divorce, he set up the Church of England as distinct from that of Rome, and refused to acknowledge the authority of the Pope. All State Protestant Churches teach the basic doctrines of Rome in greater or lesser degree; whilst many of the ceremonies and beliefs of the mother church can be traced back to pagan Babylon.

Many Protestant ceremonies and beliefs can also be traced back to pagan precedents. It's a game you bigots play, but other bigots who hate all Christians as much as you hate Catholics play the same game, tying all Christian traditions to pagan antiquity using specious, convoluted, and unsubstantiated associations. It's a game and you can't see through it because you're caught up in it.



So one does not question RCC as being the Mother of Harlots the question now must be asked "who are her daughters"

Unless you have another interpretation of Rev 17?
This prophesy as well as many that describe Rome are in reference to pre-Christian Rome. The leaders were framed in coded references that John expected his immediate audience to understand and decipher. To think that John was writing to a 21st century audience, providing you ammunition to revile and spew hatred at those you don't like, is beyond conceited. It hazards the shoals of the same mental illness that possessed the SDA foundress.


Please provide the Scripture where a young child is being sprinkled?

Please provide the Scripture where the Bible is the sole rule of faith all church ecclesial practices are governed by it.

I pick the very first one......Trinity. <_< We believe that there is three persons in one God and that Jesus is the Second Person in the Holy Trinity. Before I even begin, I would like to ask you this question. Do you believe that Jesus is God?

It's no use trying to reason with Seventh Day Adventists. Even among Protestants their bitter, acrimonious rantings cannot be stomached.

 

[aspen]

Well, anti-catholic ideas are actually part of SDA theology, so what can you do, but pray for them?

 

[Suhar]

The Harlot of Babylon is Nero or the Roman Empire. John predicted the fall of the Roman Empire and it did fall.

New topic started.

In the days of Roman Empire few continents were not discovered. How could Roman Empire fornicate with kings they did not know existed?

Plus, fall of Roman empire was a very slow process that took decades. Clearly not the case with harlot of Babylon.

 

[Pelaides]

I thought this thread was about loving muslims. h34r:

 

[Purity]

I pick the very first one......Trinity. <_< We believe that there is three persons in one God and that Jesus is the Second Person in the Holy Trinity. Before I even begin, I would like to ask you this question. Do you believe that Jesus is God?

Ah you go for the low hanging fruit...

I thought this thread was about loving muslims. h34r:

Have ye not read Matt 5:43

End of thread lets move on shall we?

Well, anti-catholic ideas are actually part of SDA theology, so what can you do, but pray for them?

How will praying to God who is soon to send his son to admonish the Christian systems of the earth help in your cause? Christianity will have it AD70...you will see.

Ok, Ellen G. White, so the Roman Catholic Church is the harlot? Do you understand that John was writing to an audience who would witness the things he wrote about? Even from the very first verse, it's made clear that Revelation was written about events soon to come to pass. The harlot John spoke of has no contemporary application whatsoever.

Tears.

So lets test this shall we?

Lets assume shall we this statement is to encompass the time in which the Apocalypse was given to the time of Jesus Christ return to the earth.

"Things which must shortly come to pass"

Clearly this is an important statement Tears, revealing the scope of the book and providing a key to its interpretation. It shows that the correct interpretation is the Historic one which treats the Apocalypse as a prophetic plan of unfolding history, the fulfilment of which was about to commence, to come to pass, shortly after it was given to the Apostle John. The visions and revelations thus cover history from the day of the Apostle to the coming of the Lord Jesus Christ.

If we do not agree on this then your interpration is false the things written within are of no use to you.

Purity

What crap is this?

Nice.

Many Protestant ceremonies and beliefs can also be traced back to pagan precedents. It's a game you bigots play, but other bigots who hate all Christians as much as you hate Catholics play the same game, tying all Christian traditions to pagan antiquity using specious, convoluted, and unsubstantiated associations. It's a game and you can't see through it because you're caught up in it.

Where have I said I hate Christians?

In my experience this approach to discussion is taken when one cannot refute the arguments so they begin to inflame the argument - at present you are out of reach.

This prophesy as well as many that describe Rome are in reference to pre-Christian Rome.

The irony here - you can use Rome and Christian in the same context...wow!

The leaders were framed in coded references that John expected his immediate audience to understand and decipher. To think that John was writing to a 21st century audience, providing you ammunition to revile and spew hatred at those you don't like, is beyond conceited. It hazards the shoals of the same mental illness that possessed the SDA foundress.

So you believe Catholicism is only founded in the 21st century? For an advocate of Catholicism you do not know your history very well.

The Apostasy had already begun during the time of the Apostles.

By the time 313 came around you already had state sponsored religion.

The rest is history

Just so you know the protestant history didn't come out without spot and blemish either - Christianity today is in a real mess i.e Mother and all her daughters.

Please provide the Scripture where the Bible is the sole rule of faith all church ecclesial practices are governed by it.

There it is everyone.

Didn't I say only a few threads back the Roman Catholic falls on two swords.

1. Its a mystery
2. The Church is the authority

Purity

 

[Selene]

New topic started.

In the days of Roman Empire few continents were not discovered. How could Roman Empire fornicate with kings they did not know existed?

Plus, fall of Roman empire was a very slow process that took decades. Clearly not the case with harlot of Babylon.

Among the Christians of John's time, Babylon was the code name for "Rome." Fornication with the kings refers to the pagan nations. Rome was a pagan nation who forced others to worship pagan gods. They drank from the blood of the martyrs......Rome killed many Christians in her arenas, and it was done for their entertainment. The Great Harlot was Nero or the Roman Empire at that time. And both Nero and the Roman Empire fell. This was what John predicted, and this prophecy came true.

 

[This Vale Of Tears]

I thought this thread was about loving muslims. h34r:

Sometimes threads drift. Sometimes they pivot.

 

[Purity]

Among the Christians of John's time, Babylon was the code name for "Rome." Fornication with the kings refers to the pagan nations. Rome was a pagan nation who forced others to worship pagan gods. They drank from the blood of the martyrs......Rome killed many Christians in her arenas, and it was done for their entertainment. The Great Harlot was Nero or the Roman Empire at that time. And both Nero and the Roman Empire fell. This was what John predicted, and this prophecy came true.

And it "became" Christian....State and Religion came together and its name is the "Holy Roman Catholic Church"

It is what it is.

 

[Suhar]

Among the Christians of John's time, Babylon was the code name for "Rome." Fornication with the kings refers to the pagan nations. Rome was a pagan nation who forced others to worship pagan gods. They drank from the blood of the martyrs......Rome killed many Christians in her arenas, and it was done for their entertainment. The Great Harlot was Nero or the Roman Empire at that time. And both Nero and the Roman Empire fell. This was what John predicted, and this prophecy came true.

You ignored both of my points so if you want to talk to yourself I am not going to get in the way.

Many places where cutures and languages mixed were called "Babulon".

 

[Selene]

You ignored both of my points so if you want to talk to yourself I am not going to get in the way.

Many places where cutures and languages mixed were called "Babulon".

I didn't ignore it. The word "Babylon" during John's time meant "Rome." And the kings whom Rome fornicated with were the pagan nations. Even history can testify to this. When pagan Rome conquered Greece, for example, they adopted the Greek gods into their culture. The only difference is the names were changed. The Roman god Jupiter is the same as the Greek god Zeus.

 

[Suhar]

I didn't ignore it.

And then you ignore them again.

Have fun talking to yourself.

 

[Selene]

And then you ignore them again.

Have fun talking to yourself.

Suhar, you only want to make it look like the "United States" is the harlot of Babylon. But the United States didn't even exist at that time. Babylon was known as "Rome" during John's time, and that is the truth. You are ignoring the truth.

 

[Suhar]

All nations of the world drank wine of wrath of her fornication. In the days of Rome many nations, continents did not know Rome even existed. Rev 18.3

US did not exist? It is called prophesy. It is foretelling things that did not happen yet.

You are ignoring Word of God.

 

[Selene]

All nations of the world drank wine of wrath of her fornication. In the days of Rome many nations, continents did not know Rome even existed. Rev 18.3

US did not exist? It is called prophesy. I is foretelling things that did not happen yet.

My brother, there are many prophecies in the Holy Bible, and some of them have already come true. To John, the Fall of the Roman Empire was the future..........but for us, it has already happened.

In the same way, Christ also predicted that the temple of Jerusalem will be destroyed. Christ predicted the future, but for us in our time.........that prediction has already happened. The Jerusalem temple fell in 70 A.D. Prophecies that has already happened are no longer prophecies.

 

[Suhar]

http://biblehub.com/revelation/18-3.htm

All nations. By saying Rome you throw "all" out.
You know what happens to people that throw words out of Word of God?

 

[Selene]

http://biblehub.com/revelation/18-3.htm

All nations. By saying Rome you throw "all" out.
You know what happens to people that throw words out of Word of God?

The word "all" doesn't mean every single nation on earth. It is referring only to the pagan nations known at that time. For example, look at this biblical verse:

Mark 1:5 And there went out unto him all the land of Judaea, and they of Jerusalem, and were all baptized of him in the river of Jordan, confessing their sins.

Does this mean that every single person in the land of Judea and Jerusalem came to John for baptism?? I don't think so because he can't baptized that fast enough. If all the people of Judea were all baptized by John, why would the Apostles continue baptizing in Judea (John 4:1-3)?