Agreed. Too many mystical dualists here to take abdicating logic as a sacrement.
The notion of a fiery eternal hell is a strongly held but unbiblical belief.
I always found the response peculiar to the observation that resurrecting people for the express purpose of torturing them without end does not sound like an act of all loving god.
@Wrangler
@I.O.U
It has nothing to DO with LOGIC of “YOUR MINDS Understanding” of resurrecting “PEOPLE” (Bodily Earthly men), as
@Wrangler says;
“FOR THE EXPRESS PURPOSE of Torturing them ....WITHOUT END”.
ALL Earthly men SHALL BE Bodily Raised....
“FOR THE EXPRESS PURPOSE OF .... JUDGEMENT!”
An Earthly man...IS His BODY, His LIfe IS His BLOOD.
An Alive Earthly man...IS an Earthly BODY, With Gods Breath of LIFE (soul).
An Earthly mans...Natural “spirit”, IS the mans Natural TRUTH in his Heart.
When the Earthly Body Dies; The Living soul DEPARTS out of the Body.
* “IF”, the Body (Man) BELIEVED IN GOD WHEN his BODY DIes...His soul BECOMES SAVED “THEN” (at the time of his bodily death.)
^^^ That applicable TO “OT” men.
THOUSANDS of YEARS AGO...prophetic KNOWLEDGE of a SAVING God Anointed Messiah was Foretold in Mosaic Law.
2,000+ Years ago, THAT God Anointed Saviour Messiah WAS Revealed TO the EYES of Earthly men.
His Name; Jesus. His Title; Word of God.
Gods Promise; He “would be called”; The Christ (Messiah);
He “would be called”; The Son of God.
He “would be called”, Faithful, True, Mighty God, Father.
Following THE TEACHING of Gods Word;
Earthly men CAN BELIEVE (in their natural spirit (hearts belief))...IN God, IN Jesus the Christ.......and “
IF” they DO SO BELIEVE on the DAY of their BODILY DEATH................THEY SHALL BE “soul SAVED”.
* Their LIVING SOUL shall depart their Dead Body, and return to be WITH GOD.
* SHOULD THEY NOT heartfully BELIEVE, their LIVING SOUL shall DEPART their Dead Body, AND GO TO HELL, Separated FROM GOD, and Separated FROM God’s PEACE, REST and Comfort. <—- THEIR TORTURE.
^^ Their Dead Body KNOWS NOTHING. It rots and Returns to Dust.
^^ A Saved Living soul is at Peace, Rest and Comfort WITH God.
^^ An UnSaved Living soul is in Hell, IN Chaos, Unrest and Discomfort (TORTURE) withOUT God.
2,000+ Years Ago~ Jesus TAUGHT men:
Believing MEN........
WHO......BELIEVED IN GOD and Christ Jesus and
HEARTFULLY (from the True Belief of their NATURAL spirit) CONFESSED THEIR TRUE BELIEF.....THAT THEY WOULD RECEIVE:
1) The SALVATION of THEIR soul....BEFORE their Physical Bodily Death.
2) The QUICKENING (rebirth of their Natural spirit from a mans seed...Would receive Gods SEED, and Supernatural Spiritual rebirth of their spirit....ie called the Baptism of the Holy Spirit).
THEIR....living soul....REMAINS ALIVE FOREVER with Gods Breath.
THEIR....living spirit...REMAINS ALIVE FOREVER with Gods Seed.
^^^ That “result” is shortened to the common Acronym ... OSAS.
^^^ That “result” is PERMANENT and Never subject to change.
ALL “BODY’S” “MUST DIE”....God REQUIRES a mans BODILY DEATH.
A mans BODY....CAN NOT RECEIVE a NEW BODY, “UNTIL the OLD BODY DIES”.
Gen 9:
[
5] And surely your blood of your lives will I
require; at the hand of every beast will I
require it, and at the hand of man; at the hand of every man's brother will I
require the life of man.
1 Cor 15:
[
36] Thou fool, that which thou sowest
is not quickened, except it die:
A man’s WORKS........IS BELIEVING.
(John 6: 27, 28, 29)
A man’s SERVICE......IS HEARTFUL CONFESSION OF HIS BELIEF.
(Rom 12: 1 ~ Rom 10: 9, 10 ~ Gal 2:20 )
Jesus Taught Men HIS OFFERING, OF His BODY and OF His BLOOD....FOR...(in the STEAD of ALL men)...ALL MEN....
WHO: Freely, Willing, TRUST TO BELIEVE
and HEARTFULLY CONFESS their BELIEF.
Jesus GAVE His Body, His Blood....FOR ALL men.
(John 6: 51, 54, 55, 56)
(Heb 10: 5, 10)
JESUS ONCE OFFERED TO ALL MEN......A man MUST reach OUT AND TAKE Jesus’ OFFERING.....OR LOSE IT....
IF A MAN DOES NOT “TAKE” Jesus’ OFFERING....the man DOES NOT POSESS / HAVE Jesus’ Offering.
Salvation IS A GIFT.
A GIFT IS an OFFERING.
IF a man does not REACH OUT AND TAKE the GIFT, the man DOES not possess the GIFT.
A BODILY DEATH “IS REQUIRED” BEFORE A man CAN RECEIVE Gods Offered Gift.
****** SOME MEN ******
HAVE Freely Chosen TO BELIEVE.
******SOME MEN*******
HAVE Freely Chosen TO BELIEVE....(WORKS)....
AND FREELY chosen TO (SERVE) God
BY freely, willingly, GIVING THEIR BODY UNTO DEATH....
CRUCIFIED “WITH” JESUS....
AND RECEIVE Gods Baptism of His Holy Spirit;
God SEED, salvation of their soul (bodily death accomplished according to Gods Order, Way, Offering), Quickening (rebirth of their spirit).
*****THEREAFTER, it matters NOT, on what day THEY PHYSICALLY Bodily DIE........
Their BODY rots....and returns to Dust
Their SOUL IS SAVED....and returns to God.
Their SPIRIT IS Reborn....and returns to God.
Their BODY WAITS...for Resurrection: knowing, feeling NOTHING.
Their BODY SHALL BE RAISED...WHEN call UP IN Glory, (uncorrupted), and their saved living soul, and their reborn living spirit, REUNITED IN their uncorrupted BODY.
***********NOW*********ABOUT*******OTHER men.....
The man who BELIEVED....but Never Heartfully CONFESSED his Belief?
* He still Alive in his natural flesh body......CAN CONTINUE TO SIN (one day believe...one day doubt...believe, doubt, believe doubt....pray IN Jesus’ Name...believe, doubt...continue believing...reject belief....seek other gods....dabble in other gods....waver between God Almighty, Christ Jesus....or reject all gods....<—->
He rides a Slippery Slope....AND repeatedly Scripture WARNS he IS IN DANGER of Forfeiting/Losing Gods Offering of Salvation.
Should THAT man physically Die on a day he is dabbling in “other gods” or otherwise “rejecting the Lord God”.......He Forfeits/Loses Receiving his Gift of Salvation.
TORTURE IN HELL??? When such a man physically Dies....His Living (saved or unsaved) soul departs his body.
Saved living souls Return to God TO WAIT Judgement.
Unsaved living soul GO TO HELL TO WAIT Judgement.
Saved living souls “WITH” God are IN Light, Comfort, Rest, Peace.
Unsaved living souls “WITHOUT” God are IN Darkness, Gloom, Agony, Unrest.
BODY’S (people) are NOT IN Hell. Souls separated from God ARE in Hell.
The living soul IS the ACTIVE SENSES of a man.
A mans BODY, has eyes, ears, nose, tongue, mouth, flesh...(that DO NOTHING without a living soul.)
A mans living SOUL, has sight, hearing, smelling, speaking, touch feeling...
A mans body rotting in the ground, sees, hears, smells, speaks, feels NOTHING.
A mans Departed Living soul, CONTINUES, seeing, hearing, smelling, speaking, feeling.
A mans Departed Living soul.......WITH God IN Heaven....SEES God as He is...Hears Gods voice and Praises to God....Smells pleasant odors....Speaks Truths and Praises to God....Feels pleasant touch.
A mans Departed Living soul....IN HELL withOUT God....SEES death, darkness, gloom, HEARS voices IN Distress, SMELLS putrid odors of sulfur, SPEAKS with a voice of agony, despair, FEELS NO comfort or relief.
^^^ THAT IS THEIR
TORTURE.
*** THAT DOES “NOT” CONTINUE .......FOR EVER.....AS YOU SAY.***
THEIR “miserable” Living soul...SHALL...MUST...return to their BODY.
ONCE their “Living soul” IS Returned to their BODY....their BODY (void the body’s LIFE...ie BLOOD).......Shall be Raised UP (by the Power of the LIFE in the Living soul, returning to it’s body.
THAT risen body, with it’s living soul....SHALL STAND BEFORE THE JUDGE... (Christ Jesus).
By the power of the living soul IN their body....THEY SHALL SEE Christ Jesus...........AND THEN BELIEVE.
THEY SHALL BOW DOWN, BEFORE HIM (which IS WORSHIP).
*** THEN SHALL THE PROPHETIC SCRIPTURE BE “FULFILLED”...THAT ALL MEN SHALL BELIEVE and WORSHIP GOD.
Isa 45:23
Rom 14:11
Phil 2: 10, 11
THEN shall the BOOKS be OPENED.
* Names BLOTTED out of Gods BOOK of Life, WILL not show a mans Name, who is WITHOUT GOD.
* Names of Living men (men alive with their BLOOD LIFE), who DID NOT BELIEVE, (while ALIVE in their BLOOD LIFE)....WILL not have been Written IN the LAMBS BOOK of LIFE.
Gods BOOKS, ARE the TRUE Testimonial Evidence AT the time of ALL mens day of JUDGEMENT...
A mans name blotted out of Gods Book of Life...IS NOT WITH God, nor God WITH that man.
A mans name NOT entered into the LAMBS Book of Life....IS NOT WITH the Lamb of God, HAS NOT received the LAMB’S gift of Salvation.
**** SUCH a mans JUDGEMENT IS:
....Gods Breath of Life in that soul....Returns to God.
....That LIFELESS...(void of Blood)...Body of that man.
....That LIFELESS...(void of Gods breath)....Soul of that man.
....That LIFELESS...(void of Gods spirit).........Natural spirit of that man....
ARE thrown INTO the Fire pits of Hell (
DESTROYED)...and FORGOTTEN, remembered no more.
A body and soul and spirit.........VOID OF LIFE......KNOWS and FEELS NOTHING.
Matt 10:
[
28] And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather
fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.