Majority of Mankind Will Perish -NC

[Strat]

Focusing attention upon your own self is futile; and will accomplish nothing
towards making those numbers go away. Billy Graham once said that the
smallest package in the world is a man all wrapped up in himself.

This only applies to those who are so perfect and good at living their lives above reproach that they have the extra time to meddle in what others are doing.....you know the perfect people.



The Lord's followers aren't called to witness to one another; but rather, to the world.

†. Mrk 16:15 . . He said to them: Go into all the world and preach the gospel




Mtt 10:5-15 only applies to those among the Lord's followers who have the power
to cleanse lepers, raise the dead, and exorcise demons. Plus: the venue is specific--
the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Cliff
/

Nonsense.

 

[Webers_Home]

Nonsense.

Which part is nonsense? the part I wrote?

"Focusing attention upon your own self is futile; and will accomplish nothing
towards making those numbers go away. Billy Graham once said that the
smallest package in the world is a man all wrapped up in himself."

Or the part you wrote?

"This only applies to those who are so perfect and good at living their lives
above reproach that they have the extra time to meddle in what others are
doing.....you know the perfect people.”

Cliff
/

 

[Netchaplain]

Web, Jesus said the world--"all", will know we're His by our love for one another. Their is no greater witness or evidence! Right?

 

[Strat]

Does the Bible tell us to work our salvation with fear and trembling or the salvation of others ? did Jesus not say to examine ourselves before examining others ? what Billy Grahm was probably speaking of are those who don't care if others are saved as long as they are.

The modern church attempts to portray the lost as victims,the Bible portrays them as people who need to hear the gospel and once they have heard it they are responsable for it and have no legitimate excuse for rejecting it other than their own sinful will and nature,they cannot point to any circumstance or person to blame for their rejection of Jesus...the human heart wants a variety of choices and a buffet of options which explains the many releigions we have....Jesus says its me,only me,the time is now and today is the day,after that the process begins and it is of course different for different people.

Those who will not hear or believe the Gospel have condemned themselves and are a waste of time until such time that God changes them through circumstance or gives them up altogether....the modern hypersocial church would have us believe that we beg and plead only to wind up with some superficial confession of Jesus usually to shut us up and make us go away.

 

[Webers_Home]

Jesus said the world--"all", will know we're His by our love for one another.
Their is no greater witness or evidence! Right?

I'm going to deliberately misquote the Lord's words. Watch for the revision.

"A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I
have loved you, that you also love one another. By this all men will know
that I am real, if you have love for one another."

Here's another revision:

"A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I
have loved you, that you also love one another. By this all men will know
that what I say is true, if you have love for one another."

Neither one of those revisions is a true statement. When Christians love
each other as kinfolk, it doesn't eo ipso prove that the Lord is real nor that
what he says is true. It simply means they are birds of a feather who take
the teachings of the Bible's Jesus seriously: and that's about it.

Cliff
/

 

[Netchaplain]

I agree Cliff, just because people love one another doesn't confirm they love Christ, if it's just a natural or "phileō" love. The love Christ is referring to is agapaō love, which is not a natural love but a super natural love and requires God, not to enable us to love as He loves but to yield to Him to love others through us, which confirms His indwelling. God doing it by us, not us doing it by God.

This is best evident in "Peter's Grievance", after Christs' resurrection but before His ascension (John 21:14-17), when Christ asked him three times if he love Him. During the Lord's first two requests He asked Peter if he "agapao" Him and Peter responded both times with "Thou knowest I phileo Thee". The Lord's third request was with "phileo thou Me?". Then Peter's final response was the same as the other two with the word phileo.

The Lord's use of phileo with His last request was Him admitting that Peter could not agapao Him because this would only be possible after He sent the Spirit, Who could agapao Christ through Peter and is how we agpao Him and others--through the Spirit.

"Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, [see that ye] love one another with a pure heart fervently" (1 Pet 1:22 KJV, NKJV).

 

[Arnie Manitoba]

(because of Satan) evil and sin came to earth and to mankind.

Probably in an instant God determined that the solution was to end it all.

He has made that decision.

He also knew "some" would choose him and follow him instead of following Satan and the world.

Because of his great fondness for man he provided Christ .... knowing full well not all would want him.

God does not save anyone who does not want to be saved.

We determine our own destiny. God does not. He just provides the options.

 

[Webers_Home]

.

The love Christ is referring to is agapaō love, which is not a natural love but
a super natural love and requires God, not to enable us to love as He loves
but to yield to Him to love others through us, which confirms His indwelling.

That just goes to show that if a lie is told often enough; pretty soon the masses
will accept it as truth. I just wish I had a ten-dollar bill for every time I've been told
that agapao love is supernatural.

Here's an example where agapao love is clearly natural rather than supernatural.

†. Mtt 5:43-44 . .You have heard that it was said, "You shall love your
neighbor and hate your enemy." But I say to you, love your enemies

Both the words for "love" in that instance are agapao

Here's another.

†. Mtt 5:46 . . For if you love those who love you, what reward have you?
Do not even the tax collectors do the same?

Tax collectors weren't regarded as especially spiritual men in ancient Israel
yet they too were capable of agapao love.

Here's another.

†. Luke 6:32 . . For if you love them which love you, what thanks have you?
for sinners also love those that love them.

Every word for "love" in that passage is agapao; which is a kind of love that
even sinners love for others.

†. John 5:20 . . For the Father loves the Son

The love in that statement is phileo love. Does that make phileo love supernatural?
I don't think so.

†. John 16:27 . .The Father Himself loves you, because you have loved me and have
believed that I came forth from God.

Phileo love again.

In conclusion then; whether the Lord's followers love each other with phileo
love or agapao love, makes no difference. Neither will prove that the Lord is
real nor that what he says is true. The only thing those two kinds of
Christian-to-Christian love prove to outsiders is that the Lord's followers are
colleagues and compatriots rallying around the same flag.

Cliff
/

 

[whitestone]

4.

.
I prefer using numbers because they have a way of fleshing out the Lord's
statements. For example if the world ended today; something like:

7,305,000 Baha'i
483,821,000 Buddhists
454,579,800 Chinese Folk religionists
6,446,890 Confucianists
935,460,000 Hindus
5,669,000 Jains
1,523,212,150 Muslims
2,782,800 Shintoists
8,849,700 Taoists
181,650 Zoroastrians
639,907,110 Nonreligious; and
138,777,200 Atheists

for a grand total of 4,286,592,300 (4.3 billion) people representing 60% of
earth's current population, would transfer to hell in a blink; and that's not
even counting all the phony Christians that are Christians in label only;
e.g. LDS (14.4 million) and Watch Tower Society (7.65 million)

Cliff
/

I can't wait until you get to numbering the dogs and cats and gerbiles, gerbuls, gerbols...mice, and rabbits and mosquitos and amoebas that will likewise perish...

If nothing else, the loss of life of folk might be a motivating factor to go preach the Gospel and save some folk in the Name of Jesus Christ our Lord God! I'm not sure how else I'm to view it...

 

[Strat]

The gospel is being preached,the Bible said it would be and it is,man's negative response or indifference is no indication it is not being preached...we are given the reasons people reject the gospel but for some its just not a good enough explanation.

 

[Webers_Home]

.

The gospel is being preached

And yet there lacks a consensus among the various main-stream denominations,
and the myriad of individual Christians, seminary professors, and arm-chair
theologians, as to what the gospel actually consists. So I really have to ask:
Which version of the gospel being preached is the real gospel? Surely somebody
out there must know what they're talking about; but the question is: who?

And, oh! another of my favorite expressions is "the plain teachings of the
Bible". Haw-Haw-Haw-Haw-Hawwwwwww! If the Bible's teachings were
really as plain as some insist; then we'd all be on the same page; but we're
not. As anybody with the IQ of a Forrest Gump can easily tell: the world of
Christianity is a world of disagreement, debate, animosity, and mass confusion.

Cliff
/

 

[Strat]

Yes,people screwing things up like they always have....God's word will still be preached and those with ears to hear will hear it

 

[Webers_Home]

God's word will still be preached and those with ears to hear will hear it

Well . . that's all very nice and everything but I still have to ask: Which of the
God's words being preached on the internet, out in the world, and in
churches, is the real God's word?

And ears to hear are laughable. Everybody is convinced they have them but
judging by the diversity of God's words being preached and listened to
hither and yon: it's apparent to me that quite a few Christians are delusional
and don't know it.

Cliff
/

 

[Netchaplain]

Truth is found only by those who have a compelling desire for Christ to live it in them. Many have desired to only know truth and attempt to live it by themselves, but to them it is not revealed. " . . . which things the angels desire to look into" (1 Pet 1:12).

" . . . it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given" (Mat 13:11).

" . . . how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?" (John 14:22).

"Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand" (Mat 13:13).

"That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them" (Mark 4:12).

 

[JoeinArkansas]

Recorded history has always revealed that most of mankind has been unconcerned about being right with God. Scripture, esp. in the New Testament, reveals this truism and a prime evidence of support is Christ’s proclamation in Matthew 7:13, 14: “Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide [is] the gate, and broad [is] the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat. Because strait [is] the gate, and narrow [is] the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Our Lord was utilizing comparative terms in the above passage to disclose that even though the saved will be innumerable by man’s standard (Rev 7:9), they will be considered few in comparison to the unsaved. This concept is also evident in the many Scriptural usages of the term “world” when referring to the majority of the Earth’s inhabitants. A prime evidence of support concerns a question that Judas Lebbaeus, whose surname was Thaddaeus and is considered to be Jude, the Apostle who wrote the epistle of Jude, asked Christ in John 14:21, 22: “He that hath My commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth Me: and he that loveth Me shall be loved of My Father, and I will love him, and will manifest Myself to him. Judas saith unto Him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world”? In this sense the term “world” is in reference to the majority of the Earth’s inhabitants, otherwise it would also include the Apostles and the remnant of the saved.

Realizing most will perish increases the urgency of outreach and being aware of this truism can cause us to be more knowledgeable of God’s ways of using us to draw others to Christ.

The question could be asked, “Since God is omniscient and knew most would not choose His way, why did He create man? One reply could be, “He did it for the sake of those He knew would be saved”!

Dear NetChaplin,
I am curious why you believe Christ is not going to save all of mankind??? Scripture speaks strongly about the certainty of salvation for all mankind.


Rom 5:15 But shall not the act of favour be as the offence? For if by the offence of one the many have died, much rather has the grace of God, and the free gift in grace, which is by the one man Jesus Christ, abounded unto the many. (Darby)


John 3:35 The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand.

John 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.


Rom 5:18-19 so then as it was by one offence towards all men to condemnation, so by one righteousness towards all men for justification of life. For as indeed by the disobedience of the one man the many have been constituted sinners, so also by the obedience of the one the many will be constituted righteous. (Darby)

I'm sure someone must have tried to explain this truth of scripture to you at some point in your past. It is true that only a "few" will be saved into the church but the church is only the first fruits of the havest. The church are the ones chosen and judged in this age and brought to maturity in Christ. But most of mankind will fall short the blessing of the church and will have to wait to be drawn to Christ in the final age during their time of judgment. Are you not aware that God's judgment teaches righteousness to those who are judged? Judgment is for the betterment of the person being judged.


Isa 26:9 With my soul have I desired thee in the night; yea, with my spirit within me will I seek thee early: for when thy judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness.


Job 34:12 Yea, surely God will not do wickedly, neither will the Almighty pervert judgment.


Isa 4:4 When the Lord shall have washed away the filth of the daughters of Zion, and shall have purged the blood of Jerusalem from the midst thereof by the spirit of judgment, and by the spirit of burning.


Isa 1:27 Zion shall be redeemed with judgment, and her converts with righteousness.


Prov 28:5 Evil men understand not judgment: but they that seek the LORD understand all things.

Judgment is a part of the salvation process each person must go through. The church is judged now in this age, all others are judged in the final age.

1Pe 4:17 For it is the ripe time for the judgment to begin with the house of God; but, if first with us, what shall be the end of them who yield not unto the glad-message of God?

Also, there is no time limit on salvation. Christ's love and mercy never come to an end and His love never fails.


Lam 3:22 The steadfast love of the Lord never ceases; his mercies never come to an end;

It must be horrible to believe that Christ is going to torment in the fires of hell most of mankind - I know because I used to believe in the doctrine of hell, too. But Christ would never do such a thing as that doctrine teaches. Christ is loving, merciful and forgiving. He commands us to love our enemies. Do you thing that casting someone in the Christian hell is being loving for that person? The God and Father that I know will draw us to Him, cause us to repent and give us the faith we need to trust in Him. Christ is the Savior and He is the one who is responsible for our salvation. We cannot save ourselves. We can't even come to Christ unless the Father draws us to Him. Christ will not fail in the mission He was given to do by His Father, which is to save the world If Christ fails for even one person, Christ will be a failure. But God's love never fails nor does His Word return to Him void.


1John 4:14 And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.

Do you not believe this verse that says the Father sent the Son to be the Savior of the world? Since Christ was sent to save the world, why do you believe He will fail? If you have any faith at all in God and His Word, why don't you believe Him when He says:


Phi 2:10-11 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Why do you beleive that this scripture is a lie?

If God desires anything, God accomplishes it. His love is no match for any sinner.


Isa 55:11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

Job 23:13 But he is in one mind, and who can turn him? And what his soul desireth, that will he do.

And what He says He will do is save mankind, not just a small part but ALL.


1 Tim 2:4-6 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

1 Tim 4:10-11 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe. These things command and teach.

Matt 18:11-14 For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost.


1 John 4:8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

1 Cor 13:8 Love never fails;

Scripture speaks of a time when all of creation will be reconciled to God:


Acts 3:20-21 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

The Feast of Tabernacles represents the time in the final age when the full harvest of mankind is saved. Christ spoke of this when He said:


John 7:37-38 In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink. He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.

If Christ will open your eyes to His truth and increase your faith, then I am confident that the scriptures will open up to you. His plan is concealed in scripture and He reveals it to whom He will. When Christ opened my eyes and ears, Christ first caused me to pray for understanding. It is my hope that He will bless you as He did me. Life in Christ is so joyful when you know you have a Savior that can do all that He says he will do and He says that He will save the world. You sadness for all the people and family that you have feared are going to hell will turn to joy. It all starts by asking Christ for understanding.

Joe

 

[Netchaplain]

My friend JA, I'm not sure at this time what I could reply with that you might find useful. Your beliefs are the first I've encountered in my thirty-five years of Christianity. To me, you seem to have the motive of good intentions but know that regardless our intentions, man's belief's do not validate "the word of truth" (Eph 1:13), but conversely, it tests the belief's of man; not for God to see what we will do but for us to learn from.

For Truth's Sake
Your Friend in Christ

 

[Arnie Manitoba]

Joeinarkansas .... you have done a good job compiling that list.

Now compile a list of all the times Jesus describes what will happen to the un-beleivers , the wicked , and evil.

Then you have the whole picture.

Best wishes.

 

[Foreigner]

.
I prefer using numbers because they have a way of fleshing out the Lord's
statements. For example if the world ended today; something like:

7,305,000 Baha'i
483,821,000 Buddhists
454,579,800 Chinese Folk religionists
6,446,890 Confucianists
935,460,000 Hindus
5,669,000 Jains
1,523,212,150 Muslims
2,782,800 Shintoists
8,849,700 Taoists
181,650 Zoroastrians
639,907,110 Nonreligious; and
138,777,200 Atheists

for a grand total of 4,286,592,300 (4.3 billion) people representing 60% of
earth's current population, would transfer to hell in a blink; and that's not
even counting all the phony Christians that are Christians in label only;
e.g. LDS (14.4 million) and Watch Tower Society (7.65 million)

That passage doesn't target Atheists, nor Hindus, nor Buddhists, nor
Muslims. No, it targets people claiming to have prophesied in "thy name"
and to have exorcised demons in "thy name" and to have done many
wonderful works in "thy name". In other words: the Lord's statement targets
Christians-- and not just your average rank and file pew warmers either, no,
but rather, it targets the cream of the crop; the celebrities of the Christian
world; renowned for their accomplishments, their piety, their perseverance,
their love, and their dedication.

-- Sadly, the statistics you share and the comments you make are accurate

Jesus said in Matt 7:13-14 that wide is the path of destruction and many will follow it, and narrow is the gate to salvation and few will follow that.

Jesus also stated flatly that no one would see the Father but through Him. Politically incorrect as it is, that means that unless a person accepts and follows Christ with his/her whole heart, they will not see heaven. Period.

I became a Christian in 1980, but there are a couple of lenthy periods in my walk where I either walked away from Jesus (wasn't a conscious decision) or was actually at a place where I considered myself a Christian, but if Christ had returned I likely would not have been counted among the sheep.

There are millions of people the world over who consider themselves Christians ("I am not a bad person, I don't murder, rape or steal") but are in for a rude surpise come the Judgment. I am so thankful that even though I would have been counted among that group, I no longer will be.

For example: Christians akin to Mother
Teresa, Billy Graham, and Luis Palau who prayed up a storm, published
books, traveled the world, spoke to crowds, won accolades, were canonized
to sainthood, operated hostels and orphanages in impoverished cities; and
organized relief efforts to earthquake and tsunami victims in regions like
Japan, Haiti, and Indonesia.

It is to many of those very kinds of Christian superstars that the Lord will
say "I never knew you." Why? Because though they were busy as bees,
ants, and termites in Christian service capacities; they were actually no
friend of Christ's.

-- I have read little about Mother Theresa and have never been to a gathering of Billy Graham or Luis Palau. But since I - like you - have never been privy to their personal relationship or prayer life with Jesus away from the stage and the public eye, I don't feel qualified to make the stretch they are going to find themselves among the goats instead of the sheep.

As a matter of fact, it is my understanding that standing in personal judgment over others can land you among the goats.

 

[Webers_Home]

.

-- I have read little about Mother Theresa and have never been to a
gathering of Billy Graham or Luis Palau. But since I - like you - have never
been privy to their personal relationship or prayer life with Jesus away from
the stage and the public eye, I don't feel qualified to make the stretch they
are going to find themselves among the goats instead of the sheep. As a
matter of fact, it is my understanding that standing in personal judgment
over others can land you among the goats.

I don't know how you came to the conclusion that I was judging those
people but I assure such was not my intention. I merely name-dropped
them as types of the kinds of Christians targeted by the Lord's statement
at Mtt 7:22-23.

Buen Camino
/

 

[Foreigner]

I don't know how you came to the conclusion that I was judging those
people but I assure such was not my intention. I merely name-dropped
them as types of the kinds of Christians targeted by the Lord's statement
at Mtt 7:22-23.

-- So you drop their specific names to say they are examples of the "type" of Christians who, at the day of Judgment, will ultimately hear God say "I never knew you"....but you weren't speaking specifically about them?

And furthermore, you could not see how I or anyone else could possibly interpret that you might be speaking about those people specifically?

hmmm......