Mankind V.S. Adam

[Truthnightmare]

Your understanding is not the measure of what is and is not scriptural.

Of course not. However you are speaking things that I have not read, so to alleviate this you can simply provide the passages in where you draw your conclusion from.

 

[Rella ~ I am a woman]

Genesis 3:20​

And Adam called his wife’s name Eve, because she was the mother of all living.​

And Adam called his wife’s name Eve, because she was the mother of all living.

21 So the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall upon the man, and he slept; then He took one of his ribs and closed up the flesh at that place. 22 The Lord God [t]fashioned into a woman the rib which He had taken from the man, and brought her to the man. 23 The man said,

“This is now bone of my bones,
And flesh of my flesh;
[u]She shall be called [v]Woman,
Because [w]she was taken out of [x]Man.”

So Adam named her Eve. Allegedly because she was the mother of all living.

From the time that Adam called her woman, until the time Adam called her Eve.... any guess how long a span of time had passed?

She became the mother of all living. Who else was living in the garden?

She came into being after after God made male and female in Gen 1 to tend to the earth.

So who else was living in the garden? A child or 2?

We are told that Adam was put in the garden. And then no helper was found in the animal kingdom. So God used a rib of Adams to make Eve. Eve, as far as we know never left the garden and no one else did until Adam and wife were kicked out of the garden.... No one else was.

So, repeat. Who was Eve the mother of?

Or could that mean that Eve, the mother of all living was called such as Adam was the first God breathed life into? Therefore when they procreated she would be the matriarch of that lineage going forward.

There is a lot of things that are misleading in Genesis. A lot that makes no sense.
For example.... Gen 2:24 24 For this reason a man shall leave his father and his mother, and be joined to his wife; and they shall become one flesh

This should not be there. Who messed up? Adam had a father (God) but he had no mother.
The entire verse makes no sense in this location.

 

[ScottA]

At this point, I would ask that you provide scripture.

We can start here..

What book, chapter and verses confirm this?

No. I've been quoting scripture all along. If you recognize my words and need to look them up, I encourage you to do so...but if you need to that is a good indication that you should not be making claims of your own.

 

[Truthnightmare]

And Adam called his wife’s name Eve, because she was the mother of all living.

21 So the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall upon the man, and he slept; then He took one of his ribs and closed up the flesh at that place. 22 The Lord God [t]fashioned into a woman the rib which He had taken from the man, and brought her to the man. 23 The man said,

“This is now bone of my bones,
And flesh of my flesh;
[u]She shall be called [v]Woman,
Because [w]she was taken out of [x]Man.”

So Adam named her Eve. Allegedly because she was the mother of all living.

From the time that Adam called her woman, until the time Adam called her Eve.... any guess how long a span of time had passed?

She became the mother of all living. Who else was living in the garden?

She came into being after after God made male and female in Gen 1 to tend to the earth.

So who else was living in the garden? A child or 2?

We are told that Adam was put in the garden. And then no helper was found in the animal kingdom. So God used a rib of Adams to make Eve. Eve, as far as we know never left the garden and no one else did until Adam and wife were kicked out of the garden.... No one else was.

So, repeat. Who was Eve the mother of?

Or could that mean that Eve, the mother of all living was called such as Adam was the first God breathed life into? Therefore when they procreated she would be the matriarch of that lineage going forward.

There is a lot of things that are misleading in Genesis. A lot that makes no sense.
For example.... Gen 2:24 24 For this reason a man shall leave his father and his mother, and be joined to his wife; and they shall become one flesh

This should not be there. Who messed up? Adam had a father (God) but he had no mother.
The entire verse makes no sense in this location.

Was Eve the mother of the king of Tyrus?

12 Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord God; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.

13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.

 

[Ziggy]

Eve, Zion, the Church, New Jerusalem.
All brides...
Kingdoms.

Gen 2:22
And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.
Rev 21:2
And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

Isa 51:3
For the LORD shall comfort Zion: he will comfort all her waste places; and he will make her wilderness like Eden, and her desert like the garden of the LORD; joy and gladness shall be found therein, thanksgiving, and the voice of melody.

1Th 4:16
For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17
Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Jhn 18:36
Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

Luk 22:28
Ye are they which have continued with me in my temptations.
Luk 22:29
And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;
Luk 22:30
That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Rev 21:14
And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.

Neh 12:27
And at the dedication of the wall of Jerusalem they sought the Levites out of all their places, to bring them to Jerusalem, to keep the dedication with gladness, both with thanksgivings, and with singing, with cymbals, psalteries, and with harps.
Rev 7:4
And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

Rev 5:8
And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.
Rev 5:9
And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
Rev 5:10
And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

Gen 5:1
This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;
Gen 5:2
Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.

13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.

Rev 21:10
And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,
Rev 21:11
Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal;
Rev 21:18
And the building of the wall of it was of jasper: and the city was pure gold, like unto clear glass.
Rev 21:19
And the foundations of the wall of the city were garnished with all manner of precious stones. The first foundation was jasper; the second, sapphire; the third, a chalcedony; the fourth, an emerald;
Rev 21:20
The fifth, sardonyx; the sixth, sardius; the seventh, chrysolite; the eighth, beryl; the ninth, a topaz; the tenth, a chrysoprasus; the eleventh, a jacinth; the twelfth, an amethyst.
Rev 21:21
And the twelve gates were twelve pearls; every several gate was of one pearl: and the street of the city was pure gold, as it were transparent glass.

What is a kingdom?

1. A political or territorial unit ruled by a sovereign.
2. The eternal spiritual sovereignty of God or Christ.
3. The realm of this sovereignty.

1Co 11:8
For the man is not of the woman; but the woman of the man.
1Co 11:9
Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man.
1Co 11:10
For this cause ought the woman to have power on her head because of the angels.
1Co 11:11
Nevertheless neither is the man without the woman, neither the woman without the man, in the Lord.
1Co 11:12
For as the woman is of the man, even so is the man also by the woman; but all things of God.

Adam is King and Eve is his kingdom.

that puts a whole new light on the family unit...
just thinking outside the box..
Hugs

 

[Pierac]

Disappointed.... Was having fun giving you a Theological Spanking.... and you... no longer reply...

Yea.... Now your actually going to have to do some research... on this post... DF

No fun at all!!!
Paul

 

[ScottA]

And Adam called his wife’s name Eve, because she was the mother of all living.

21 So the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall upon the man, and he slept; then He took one of his ribs and closed up the flesh at that place. 22 The Lord God [t]fashioned into a woman the rib which He had taken from the man, and brought her to the man. 23 The man said,

“This is now bone of my bones,
And flesh of my flesh;
[u]She shall be called [v]Woman,
Because [w]she was taken out of [x]Man.”

So Adam named her Eve. Allegedly because she was the mother of all living.

From the time that Adam called her woman, until the time Adam called her Eve.... any guess how long a span of time had passed?

She became the mother of all living. Who else was living in the garden?

She came into being after after God made male and female in Gen 1 to tend to the earth.

So who else was living in the garden? A child or 2?

We are told that Adam was put in the garden. And then no helper was found in the animal kingdom. So God used a rib of Adams to make Eve. Eve, as far as we know never left the garden and no one else did until Adam and wife were kicked out of the garden.... No one else was.

So, repeat. Who was Eve the mother of?

Or could that mean that Eve, the mother of all living was called such as Adam was the first God breathed life into? Therefore when they procreated she would be the matriarch of that lineage going forward.

There is a lot of things that are misleading in Genesis. A lot that makes no sense.
For example.... Gen 2:24 24 For this reason a man shall leave his father and his mother, and be joined to his wife; and they shall become one flesh

This should not be there. Who messed up? Adam had a father (God) but he had no mother.
The entire verse makes no sense in this location.

There is a sense to it and God has explained it and I have reiterated it. You might want to go back and read it all again, but let me address some of your specific questions, not to repeat it again, but to elaborate or to draw it out.

How much time passed "From the time that Adam called her woman, until the time Adam called her Eve?" It doesn't matter, the passing of time is an illusion. In other words, just how would you gauge every little bit of what originated in God who is the same yesterday, today, and forever? The best way is to tell of it incrementally...and for our child-like minds, God did that, and so it is written. Or as it is written, "here a little, there a little." The point then is not how much time, but rather what was He even talking about...which takes us to your other questions.

If "She became the mother of all living. Who else was living in the garden?" What equation could possibly explain the things of time-told events wherein there is actually no time in Him whose children we are actually talking about? For starters: "one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day." But again, even that only reduces or increases what is never changing with God. But it's a start. In this case it means that what we could imagine would take perhaps a thousand years to arrive at even a start at a multitude of children being born of their mother Eve...a thousand years would be unto the Lord more like a day. But what does it matter? The point is simply just what He said. And how should we propose to define the meaning of "all?" --Now I have already taken away the time component which has you thinking that what is written is messed up. So drop it. "All" to One who is the same yesterday, today, and forever--means "all." But the moment you put time back into the equation where it does not belong--it's messed up again. Don't do that. That is not the renewing of your mind--that's insisting upon a created-for-story-telling narrative, that God has told us will end as soon as "all" are accounted for--or rather "revealed." Anyway, to answer the question, by God's definition of "all", Eve was and is the mother of all from beginning to end. But to fully understand--also define "mother." We know the common definition--common to us and the ways of this world. But--I'll just say it: It also means: "parting" or "point of departure." Which is to be understood as the point of our departure from God, or being delivered into this world. And what is the departure point from God? Sin. Thus it is also written "All (there's that word again) have sinned and fall short of the glory of God." Which is a confirmation from scripture that establishes the truth of this whole matter.

So, it is written, that "in Adam all die" (the wages of sin)... And who was and is "in Adam?" Eve. And "all" who are born of her lineage--how are they born? They "depart"...just as she did from Adam and from God.

And if it helps...none of that is mine, it's God's word, I have just explained it.

 

[Ziggy]

Why did Adam say, regarding Eve:
Gen 2:24
Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh?

Adam is the son of God, meaning he would have to leave God and cleave to his wife.

But when he did this:
Gen 3:17
And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;

If Adam knew he had to leave his father, then he would also know he would have to leave the garden.


Gen 3:1
Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?

Just comparing...

Gen 27:34
And when Esau heard the words of his father, he cried with a great and exceeding bitter cry, and said unto his father, Bless me, even me also, O my father.
Gen 27:35
And he said, Thy brother came with subtilty, and hath taken away thy blessing.
Gen 27:36
And he said, Is not he rightly named Jacob? for he hath supplanted me these two times: he took away my birthright; and, behold, now he hath taken away my blessing. And he said, Hast thou not reserved a blessing for me?
Gen 27:37
And Isaac answered and said unto Esau, Behold, I have made him thy lord, and all his brethren have I given to him for servants; and with corn and wine have I sustained him: and what shall I do now unto thee, my son?

Act 26:18
To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.

2 Adams... brothers?

just thinking
Hugs

 

[Rella ~ I am a woman]

There is a sense to it and God has explained it and I have reiterated it. You might want to go back and read it all again, but let me address some of your specific questions, not to repeat it again, but to elaborate or to draw it out.

How much time passed "From the time that Adam called her woman, until the time Adam called her Eve?" It doesn't matter, the passing of time is an illusion. In other words, just how would you gauge every little bit of what originated in God who is the same yesterday, today, and forever? The best way is to tell of it incrementally...and for our child-like minds, God did that, and so it is written. Or as it is written, "here a little, there a little." The point then is not how much time, but rather what was He even talking about...which takes us to your other questions.

If "She became the mother of all living. Who else was living in the garden?" What equation could possibly explain the things of time-told events wherein there is actually no time in Him whose children we are actually talking about? For starters: "one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day." But again, even that only reduces or increases what is never changing with God. But it's a start. In this case it means that what we could imagine would take perhaps a thousand years to arrive at even a start at a multitude of children being born of their mother Eve...a thousand years would be unto the Lord more like a day. But what does it matter? The point is simply just what He said. And how should we propose to define the meaning of "all?" --Now I have already taken away the time component which has you thinking that what is written is messed up. So drop it. "All" to One who is the same yesterday, today, and forever--means "all." But the moment you put time back into the equation where it does not belong--it's messed up again. Don't do that. That is not the renewing of your mind--that's insisting upon a created-for-story-telling narrative, that God has told us will end as soon as "all" are accounted for--or rather "revealed." Anyway, to answer the question, by God's definition of "all", Eve was and is the mother of all from beginning to end. But to fully understand--also define "mother." We know the common definition--common to us and the ways of this world. But--I'll just say it: It also means: "parting" or "point of departure." Which is to be understood as the point of our departure from God, or being delivered into this world. And what is the departure point from God? Sin. Thus it is also written "All (there's that word again) have sinned and fall short of the glory of God." Which is a confirmation from scripture that establishes the truth of this whole matter.

So, it is written, that "in Adam all die" (the wages of sin)... And who was and is "in Adam?" Eve. And "all" who are born of her lineage--how are they born? They "depart"...just as she did from Adam and from God.

And if it helps...none of that is mine, it's God's word, I have just explained it.

Scott,

You have missed my point entirely.

In Genesis 1 we are specifically told 26 Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; and let them rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the [ak]sky and over the cattle and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.” 27 God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them. 28 God blessed them; and God said to them,

ADAM WAS NOT MADE YET.

In Genesis 2 we are also told 7 Then the Lord God formed man of dust from the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living [f]being.

followed up by

8 The Lord God planted a garden toward the east, in Eden; and there He placed the man whom He had formed.

Obviously the was NOT the earth that is described in Gen 1: 26 “Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth, and subdue it; and rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the [al]sky and over every living thing that [am]moves on the earth.”

So a special man that God created and breathed life into him was put into that garden. (NOT THE WHOLE EARTH)

When the woman was formed from Adams side... she was his wife and the 2 of them were not given any instructions like there were in Gen 1 : 26 Then God said, let them rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over the cattle and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.” ...... 28 God blessed them; and God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth, and subdue it; and rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the [al]sky and over every living thing that [am]moves on the earth.”to

furthered by

Gen 1: 29 Then God said, “Behold, I have given you every plant yielding seed that is on the [an]surface of all the earth, and every tree [ao]which has fruit yielding seed; it shall be food for you;

NOTICE..... The people in Genesis 1 had no restrictions of any tree to not eat.....

Not until Adam was forbidden in Gen 2... because it was Adam who God breathed life into, and was givwen a paradise to exist.

So now enters Eve. In the garden.

Adam said he named her Eve because she was the mother of all the living. Gen 3: 20

Since she had never been outside the garden whose mother was she? That is a reasonable question.

The only people that would be possible for would be the children she had in the garden.. but we are not told of any... and that would have required some time, even for just 1.

The first 3 chapters of Genesis are not written very well.

We are told Eve was named that because of being the mother of all living.... YET... that is told after they were chastised by God for having eaten from the tree.

Yes, it is in God's word.... but the author(s) , if inspired, just must have jotted down things as they came to them
and/or jotted down things as they were passed down word of mouth... with no regard as to how the telling would sound.

To me, timelines are most important.

 

[Rella ~ I am a woman]

Why did Adam say, regarding Eve:
Gen 2:24
Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh?

First off.... I do believe that was an add on... perhaps by the suthor(s) of Genesis.

Nest.... the statement says a ....... man leave his father and his mother,

Adam did not have a mother, unless you subscribe to some Pagan nonsense.... So would Adam even know what a mother was? Which furthers my point of him saying Eve was called Eve because she was the mother of all
living... as being a pointless statement of questionable fact.

Adam is the son of God, meaning he would have to leave God and cleave to his wife.

But when he did this:
Gen 3:17
And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;

If Adam knew he had to leave his father, then he would also know he would have to leave the garden.


Gen 3:1
Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?

Just comparing...

Gen 27:34
And when Esau heard the words of his father, he cried with a great and exceeding bitter cry, and said unto his father, Bless me, even me also, O my father.
Gen 27:35
And he said, Thy brother came with subtilty, and hath taken away thy blessing.
Gen 27:36
And he said, Is not he rightly named Jacob? for he hath supplanted me these two times: he took away my birthright; and, behold, now he hath taken away my blessing. And he said, Hast thou not reserved a blessing for me?
Gen 27:37
And Isaac answered and said unto Esau, Behold, I have made him thy lord, and all his brethren have I given to him for servants; and with corn and wine have I sustained him: and what shall I do now unto thee, my son?

Act 26:18
To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.

2 Adams... brothers?

just thinking
Hugs

 

[Truthnightmare]

Disappointed.... Was having fun giving you a Theological Spanking.... and you... no longer reply...

Yea.... Now your actually going to have to do some research... on this post... DF

No fun at all!!!
Paul

Disappointed.... Was having fun giving you a Theological Spanking.... and you... no longer reply...

Yea.... Now your actually going to have to do some research... on this post... DF

No fun at all!!!
Paul

والغرض من هذا الموضوع ليس معرفة من يستطيع واحد
يصل آخر

 

[Rella ~ I am a woman]

والغرض من هذا الموضوع ليس معرفة من يستطيع واحد
يصل آخر

Yep

 

[rwb]

​

The Differences between the two creation events​
In Genesis chapter One They all (plural) were CREATED. Created is Hebrew word #1254 bara' "...male and female created he them" (Gen 1:27)​	But in Genesis chapter Two Adam alone (singular) is FORMED Formed is Hebrew word #3335 yatsar "...in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed." (Gen 2:8)​
They are created male and female at the same time. No 'Adam's Rib' here!​	Adam is formed some time before Eve. She later being made from him.​
They were simply created, human and mortal. "And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment"(Heb 9:27).​	Adam given the breath of life, became a living soul. (Adam would have lived forever had he not fell - see Gen 6:3 "for that he also is flesh"). Ask yourself, "also," as in whom else?​
They are told to multiply. "...Be fruitful and multiply..." (Gen 1:28)​	No such command is given to Adam and Eve (Adam's family was told to multiply after the flood; i.e., Noah's family was told in Gen 9:1).​
Mankind given dominion over animals and fish.​	Adam was a farmer.​
The animals were wild animals and the plants were wild plants. No names given.​	They were domestic animals and crop plants. Adam named these.​
There was not yet rain.​	"...went up a mist from the earth..."(Gen 2:6)​
The creation was completed. All the various races, men and women alike, were created. THEN ------ >>>​	But after that, in Gen 2:5, God saw that He "did not have a man to till the ground" (farmer). So God then FORMED Adam.​

But probably the most striking evidence that Genesis chapter Oneand Genesis chapter Two are not speaking of the same event would be:


This immediately dismisses the misconception that the account in Gen 2 is merely a deeper explanation of the events in Gen 1, as many will say and teach. For if it were, then God 'messed up' on the order of His creation, which is of course impossible. When God and man are at variance, man is always wrong and God always right. Let's now go to the Creation Scriptures themselves for further evidence and documentation.

In Ge 1 God is showing how in the beginning He created all things that are in heaven and on the earth. In Ge 2 God begins saying "¶ Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them." Then in 2:4 God speaks not of creation again, but of the generation(s) that would come from the one man, Adam, whom God created, "¶ These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,"

 

[Truthnightmare]

In Ge 1 God is showing how in the beginning He created all things that are in heaven and on the earth. In Ge 2 God begins saying "¶ Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them." Then in 2:4 God speaks not of creation again, but of the generation(s) that would come from the one man, Adam, whom God created, "¶ These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,"

I agree, that in Genesis 1:1 God created the heavens and the earth.

In Genesis 1:2 we were told that the earth was without form and void. So the immediate question would be “does God create things without form and void”? I don’t believe so.

Isa 45:18-19
18 For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain*1, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else. (KJV)

*1). vain = There is something remarkable here that is lost to the English reader of the Bible. In the Hebrew Manuscripts that the above verse was translated out of, the word translated into the English as vain is translated from the identical Hebrew word that we saw in Gen 1:1 (tohuw - #2 above), it's the same Hebrew word.

So that should explain what it is really saying when we read in Gen 1:2: "And the earth was without form [tohuw], and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep."

It is important to point out that the separation of Chapters, Verses, Sentences, and even the spaces between words is the work of the Scribes and the Translators. In the ancient Manuscripts, the whole page is written like one long word. The Scribes and Translators only had their interpretation of the meaning of the scripture to use as a guide, when separating Chapters, Verses, Lines, and the words.

This happens in our verse 2 above, in the middle of verse two after the period we have the sentence that marks the beginning of the rejuvenation of the world into our present earth age (the second of three): "And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters." This rejuvenation continues on in the following verses as God creates everything as we know it in our world.

So therefore, with the truest meanings of the key defined words in the above scripture explained, we can thus take the first verse and the first half of the second verse, up to the period, and present it as such:

1) In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
2) And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. (Notice the periods)

It would seem a proper translation would be as follows, although I am not a translator.

In the beginning of time, when that was isn't stated, God created everything in the Heavens and on the earth. Then some unknown length of time later, something catastrophic occurred that made God's Creation come to utter destruction, it became a wasted place. This destruction manifested itself among other things as a total flood. So complete was this destructive event that not only did the earth become an indistinguishable ruin, but even the sun stopped shining its light upon it, and all the earth was cast into utter darkness.

Then the second sentence of verse 2 marks the start of the rejuvenation of the earth and the commencement of God's Creation on the earth as we know it now in this present second earth age which we now live in.

If I may point out two points of interest.

1) Genesis 1:28
And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth,

Can you replenish what was not already plenished?

2) Man in Genesis 1 was created… The man Adam was formed.

CREATED: Hebrew word # 1254; bara' - to shape, to fashion, to create (always with God as subject) used of individual man,used of new conditions and circumstances, to be created, used of birth, used of something new.

FORMED: Hebrew word # 3335; yatsar - to form, to fashion, to frame, used of human activity, used of divine activity, used of Israel as a people, to frame, to pre-ordain, to plan (figurative of divine) to purpose of a situation, to be predetermined, to be pre-ordained, to be formed.

 

[rwb]

In Genesis 1:2 we were told that the earth was without form and void. So the immediate question would be “does God create things without form and void”? I don’t believe so.

I believe it simply means the earth was uninhabitable. Whatever God created that would be able to sustain life was without form, a waste and worthless thing, and void, or an empty space in darkness or void of light until the Spirit moved and within the darkness there was light.

 

[Truthnightmare]

I believe it simply means the earth was uninhabitable. Whatever God created that would be able to sustain life was without form, a waste and worthless thing, and void, or an empty space in darkness or void of light until the Spirit moved and within the darkness there was light.

Ok… well let me ask you this, where would you place these events below on a timeline concerning the creation?

22 For my people is foolish, they have not known me; they are sottish children, and they have none understanding: they are wise to do evil, but to do good they have no knowledge.

23 I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light.

24 I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly.

25 I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled.

26 I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the Lord, and by his fierce anger.

A fruitful place does not seem to indicate “uninhabitable” and we also see cities.

27 For thus hath the Lord said, The whole land shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end.

Then the proclamation comes to make it desolate after it was one inhabited with man, cities, and fruitful.

 

[Mr E]

I agree, that in Genesis 1:1 God created the heavens and the earth.

In Genesis 1:2 we were told that the earth was without form and void. So the immediate question would be “does God create things without form and void”? I don’t believe so.


So that should explain what it is really saying when we read in Gen 1:2: "And the earth was without form [tohuw], and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep."

It is important to point out that the separation of Chapters, Verses, Sentences, and even the spaces between words is the work of the Scribes and the Translators. In the ancient Manuscripts, the whole page is written like one long word. The Scribes and Translators only had their interpretation of the meaning of the scripture to use as a guide, when separating Chapters, Verses, Lines, and the words.

This happens in our verse 2 above, in the middle of verse two after the period we have the sentence that marks the beginning of the rejuvenation of the world into our present earth age (the second of three): "And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters." This rejuvenation continues on in the following verses as God creates everything as we know it in our world.

So therefore, with the truest meanings of the key defined words in the above scripture explained, we can thus take the first verse and the first half of the second verse, up to the period, and present it as such:

1) In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
2) And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. (Notice the periods)

It would seem a proper translation would be as follows, although I am not a translator.


Then the second sentence of verse 2 marks the start of the rejuvenation of the earth and the commencement of God's Creation on the earth as we know it now in this present second earth age which we now live in.

If I may point out two points of interest.

1) Genesis 1:28
And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth,

Can you replenish what was not already plenished?

2) Man in Genesis 1 was created… The man Adam was formed.

CREATED: Hebrew word # 1254; bara' - to shape, to fashion, to create (always with God as subject) used of individual man,used of new conditions and circumstances, to be created, used of birth, used of something new.

FORMED: Hebrew word # 3335; yatsar - to form, to fashion, to frame, used of human activity, used of divine activity, used of Israel as a people, to frame, to pre-ordain, to plan (figurative of divine) to purpose of a situation, to be predetermined, to be pre-ordained, to be formed.

The first lesson in Hebrew that I ever took began appropriately with Genesis and I began noticing immediately that our English translations are lacking the detail offered in the original language. The differences are many, and not insignificant. It's truly a shame that translators and theologians alike treat the Hebrew fast and loose and in so doing lose important concepts, even critical ideas that are so important if we truly want to understand. Sadly, few care to even look.

Folks easily understand the concept of 'replenish the earth' when it's used in the context of Noah and his sons, after the destruction of the flood that all but wiped out humanity and everything else, God told them to be fruitful and multiply and replenish the earth. It makes perfect sense. AND it's exactly the same words He used with respect to Adam (and Eve) 'in the beginning' --which is simply the beginning of a chapter of history, and not the whole of it. Certainly, the reference in Isaiah 45 speaks to this point.

 

[rwb]

Ok… well let me ask you this, where would you place these events below on a timeline concerning the creation?

22 For my people is foolish, they have not known me; they are sottish children, and they have none understanding: they are wise to do evil, but to do good they have no knowledge.

23 I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light.

24 I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly.

25 I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled.

26 I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the Lord, and by his fierce anger.

A fruitful place does not seem to indicate “uninhabitable” and we also see cities.

27 For thus hath the Lord said, The whole land shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end.

Then the proclamation comes to make it desolate after it was one inhabited with man, cities, and fruitful.

I would say the Prophet Jeremiah is comparing Israel of Old through her apostacy and spiritual adultery to what the earth was before the Spirit brought Light and life into creation (darkness and void of Light & Life). It is for this reason that the nation would go into 70 years of captivity. Jeremiah, weeps for the nation of Old because as far as he can tell there are none who know God. He writes they are sottish children, and they have none understanding: they are wise to do evil, but to do good they have no knowledge.

 

[Truthnightmare]

.

The first lesson in Hebrew that I ever took began appropriately with Genesis and I began noticing immediately that our English translations are lacking the detail offered in the original language. The differences are many, and not insignificant. It's truly a shame that translators and theologians alike treat the Hebrew fast and loose and in so doing lose important concepts, even critical ideas that are so important if we truly want to understand. Sadly, few care to even look.

Folks easily understand the concept of 'replenish the earth' when it's used in the context of Noah and his sons, after the destruction of the flood that all but wiped out humanity and everything else, God told them to be fruitful and multiply and replenish the earth. It makes perfect sense. AND it's exactly the same words He used with respect to Adam (and Eve) 'in the beginning' --which is simply the beginning of a chapter of history, and not the whole of it. Certainly, the reference in Isaiah 45 speaks to this point.

I agree… Some of the translations one could ask the translators “what are you guys smoking” but a daunting task is what was presented.

In the KJV 1611 Bible there is a lengthy note to the readers.

The Translators to the Reader

If I had to some this letter up, it would be..
This was hard, we did the best we could, critics will be critics…. and think for yourself as we are imperfect men.

 

[Mr E]

I agree… Some of the translations one could ask the translators “what are you guys smoking” but a daunting task is what was presented.

In the KJV 1611 Bible there is a lengthy note to the readers.

The Translators to the Reader

If I had to some this letter up, it would be..
This was hard, we did the best we could, critics will be critics…. and think for yourself as we are imperfect men.

Yeah, I get it. I don't accept it. It's like the hearty stew that Jacob made for his brother. So good, you'd trade your birthright for a taste.

But it doesn't keep. The second day it's thick and yuck, so you add water to it. And after a time, it's been so watered down that it bears little resemblance to what was so good in the beginning.