Mankind V.S. Adam

[Truthnightmare]

Yeah, I get it. I don't accept it. It's like the hearty stew that Jacob made for his brother. So good, you'd trade your birthright for a taste.

But it doesn't keep. The second day it's thick and yuck, so you add water to it. And after a time, it's been so watered down that it bears little resemblance to what was so good in the beginning.

Yeah, I get it. I don't accept it. It's like the hearty stew that Jacob made for his brother. So good, you'd trade your birthright for a taste.

Ewwwww.. You make it sound like boiled chitlins, battered in ketchup.

But I get your point… Take 20 kids sit them in a circle tell the fist kid to tell the second
kid “bluebirds are blue” and the second child
to tell the third the same… so one and so one..
By the time it gets to the twentieth child…. it will be something about dinosaurs and pokemon cards. I better get going, been procrastinating concerning Christmas…
Have a blessed day!
Oh yeah…. Thinking in conceptual terms can be a burden on some… you might have to put a little of that Jacob water in It for some to digest.

Matthew 8

23 And he took the blind man by the hand, and led him out of the town; and when he had spit on his eyes, and put his hands upon him, he asked him if he saw ought.

24 And he looked up, and said, I see men as trees, walking.

25 After that he put his hands again upon his eyes, and made him look up: and he was restored, and saw every man clearly.

 

[Mr E]

Ewwwww.. You make it sound like boiled chitlins, battered in ketchup.

But I get your point… Take 20 kids sit them in a circle tell the fist kid to tell the second
kid “bluebirds are blue” and the second child
to tell the third the same… so one and so one..
By the time it gets to the twentieth child…. it will be something about dinosaurs and pokemon cards. I better get going, been procrastinating concerning Christmas…
Have a blessed day!
Oh yeah…. Thinking in conceptual terms can be a burden on some… you might have to put a little of that Jacob water in It for some to digest.

Matthew 8

23 And he took the blind man by the hand, and led him out of the town; and when he had spit on his eyes, and put his hands upon him, he asked him if he saw ought.

24 And he looked up, and said, I see men as trees, walking.

25 After that he put his hands again upon his eyes, and made him look up: and he was restored, and saw every man clearly.

And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

 

[Truthnightmare]

And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

This line of thinking goes down a deep hole friend. I see a few errors, or what I believe to be errors, however; for time sake I will present the following, as we keep “trees” in mind.

Ezekiel 31:3 "Behold, the Assyrian was a cedar in Lebanon with fair branches, and with a shadowing shroud, and of an high stature; and his top was among the think boughs."


Remember in our earlier discussion about the "Assyrian" and the "Box tree"? This "Assyrian", or in the Hebrew text, "teashshur" [box tree] is claiming himself to be a "cedar of Lebanon", or one of God's own people. The "cedars of Lebanon" are used by God in reference to the Israelites. So we see the word "Assyrian" does not belong here. This is a deception of the Hebrew word being mistranslated. "teashshur", or Satan, was changed to Assyrian to throw off the reader.

This was not by accident, but through the design of the Kenite scribes intentionally. See also Ezekiel 27:6, and Isaiah 41:19.


Ezekiel 31:4 "The waters made him great, the deep set him up on high with her rivers running round about his plants, and sent out her little rivers unto all the trees of the field."


This "tree" is "Satan", and the description of the tree is really a description of Satan, who was created in perfect beauty.

The "waters" are the nations [peoples]; his plants are Satan's children, the Kenites; who through the sexual union between Eve and Satan in the Garden of Eden, produced their son, "Cain". The Kenites are the offspring of "Cain", and are not of Adam, Abraham, Jacob [Israel] or any part of the House of Israel [the cedars of Lebanon]. "Kenite" in Strong's Hebrew dictionary, numbers 7014, and 7017 identify the Kenites as a separate oriental tribe, of the seed, or offspring of Cain, the first son of Eve. If you can understand this, the rest of this chapter will be made easier.

The "trees" of the field are the peoples of the whole world. So we see the prophecy is starting to take form.


Ezekiel 31:5 "Therefore his height was exalted above all the trees of the field, and his boughs were multiplied, and his branches became long because of the multitude of waters, when he shot forth."


Remember in Genesis 3:1; "Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?"

Satan was more subtle than all the Living beings of God's creation. In Ezekiel 28:3; we were also told that Satan was wiser then even Daniel.


Ezekiel 31:6 "All the fowls of heaven made their nests in his boughs, and under his branches did all the beasts of the field bring forth their young, and under his shadow dwelt all great nations."


Satan always found room for corruption, and deception through his offspring, the Kenites, is obvious by the deceptions they use in commerce and banking, the fields that they control. They have always hidden in the shadows of Great nations, and lived well, as they rob through their deceit. Politics and religion are also strong areas for their advancement, and brother Judah gets the brunt of the blame, because God's people are ignorant of this hidden race, and how they take control.


Ezekiel 31:7 "Thus was he fair in his greatness, in the length of his branches: for his root was by great waters."


Ezekiel 31:8 "The cedars in the garden of God could not hide him: the fir trees were not like his boughs, and the chestnut trees were not like his branches; nor any tree in the garden of God was like unto him in his beauty."


The "garden of God" is the "garden of Eden, of Genesis 2:8. The "fir trees" then are an example of eternal beings. God states in Hosea 14:8 that He [God] is like a great fir tree. These fir trees are examples of eternal beings. Here in Ezekiel 31:8, God is telling Satan; you are not like me, for your just an old box or chestnut tree.

However, we are told here that Satan's tree, or body is also not like any other tree [person] that God has created. For God created Satan's beauty in the full pattern of beauty. Before Satan's fall, in the world that was, Satan must have held a very high position in God's heavenly order. For God created Satan above all His other created beings, and his purpose and duties were to protect the "Cherub that covereth", which is God's holy mountain.


God anointed Satan for the highest of positions, and Satan's pride caused him to fall. See Ezekiel 28:14:15. Because of his pride, Satan has been sentenced to death.

Ezekiel 31:9 "I have made him fair by the multitude of his branches: so that all the trees of Eden, that were in the garden of God, envied him."


We are back in the Garden of Eden again [Genesis 2], and though the word "tree" is used, it is still in reference to people. It is sort of like a parable where we are substituting the word trees for people. All races, including Adam and Eve envied Satan. He used his wisdom and great beauty as a tool to subdue all mankind and upset God's eternal plan. ~ TSO​

 

[ScottA]

Scott,

You have missed my point entirely.

In Genesis 1 we are specifically told 26 Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; and let them rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the [ak]sky and over the cattle and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.” 27 God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them. 28 God blessed them; and God said to them,

ADAM WAS NOT MADE YET.

In Genesis 2 we are also told 7 Then the Lord God formed man of dust from the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living [f]being.

followed up by

8 The Lord God planted a garden toward the east, in Eden; and there He placed the man whom He had formed.

Obviously the was NOT the earth that is described in Gen 1: 26 “Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth, and subdue it; and rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the [al]sky and over every living thing that [am]moves on the earth.”

So a special man that God created and breathed life into him was put into that garden. (NOT THE WHOLE EARTH)

When the woman was formed from Adams side... she was his wife and the 2 of them were not given any instructions like there were in Gen 1 : 26 Then God said, let them rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over the cattle and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.” ...... 28 God blessed them; and God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth, and subdue it; and rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the [al]sky and over every living thing that [am]moves on the earth.”to

furthered by

Gen 1: 29 Then God said, “Behold, I have given you every plant yielding seed that is on the [an]surface of all the earth, and every tree [ao]which has fruit yielding seed; it shall be food for you;

NOTICE..... The people in Genesis 1 had no restrictions of any tree to not eat.....

Not until Adam was forbidden in Gen 2... because it was Adam who God breathed life into, and was givwen a paradise to exist.

So now enters Eve. In the garden.

Adam said he named her Eve because she was the mother of all the living. Gen 3: 20

Since she had never been outside the garden whose mother was she? That is a reasonable question.

The only people that would be possible for would be the children she had in the garden.. but we are not told of any... and that would have required some time, even for just 1.

The first 3 chapters of Genesis are not written very well.

We are told Eve was named that because of being the mother of all living.... YET... that is told after they were chastised by God for having eaten from the tree.

Yes, it is in God's word.... but the author(s) , if inspired, just must have jotted down things as they came to them
and/or jotted down things as they were passed down word of mouth... with no regard as to how the telling would sound.

To me, timelines are most important.

Obviously you did not go back and read what I had explained earlier, and yet you should have. Thus, you are still looking at what is written as if it were in its own chronological order rather than simply in story form about what was before the foundation of the world and the would-be incremental days and times.

On the contrary, as a story told of what was before--before chronological time...what is written and experienced is the revealing of these many things that were before, but only now made manifest as a testament before the judgement; and as a sign to those walking through it (this valley of the shadow of death), that those who are so inclined have a light unto there feet.

As signs--one would be a fool to see a sign saying "Danger Ahead!" (as I said before) and consider the sign to be the danger, rather than what is "Ahead." But that is exactly what you who read the words are doing, when you consider the words and the story to be more important than what is actually said. Which is why it appears--as you say, to be "messed up." So, yes, if you break context from God's own position from which He gave the words, to formulate your own understanding according to the context of this story that is a story, then, yes, it is messed up--but at your own hand. Which then leads, by the same logic of your own understanding within a created-story context, to all manner of error. That is called "confusion"--the very thing that God Himself has imposed upon His own word (at Babel)--not to derail those who should keep seeking rather than speculating what they do not fully understand...but to confound the ungodly (the tares among us).

But such confusion was not to continue forever, but was to be finished before the sounding of the seventh angel. Except there are holdouts and stubborn--there always is. Therefore, learn also from the sign of Israel who even being the chosen of God, held to their own understanding until they had crucified their own Messiah. Or not.

 

[ScottA]

I believe it simply means the earth was uninhabitable. Whatever God created that would be able to sustain life was without form, a waste and worthless thing, and void, or an empty space in darkness or void of light until the Spirit moved and within the darkness there was light.

Matter (form) is the result of light and energy. Thus, when God in His power, said, "Let there be light" what was without form was created.

 

[ScottA]

Ok… well let me ask you this, where would you place these events below on a timeline concerning the creation?

22 For my people is foolish, they have not known me; they are sottish children, and they have none understanding: they are wise to do evil, but to do good they have no knowledge.

23 I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light.

24 I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly.

25 I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled.

26 I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the Lord, and by his fierce anger.

A fruitful place does not seem to indicate “uninhabitable” and we also see cities.

27 For thus hath the Lord said, The whole land shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end.

Then the proclamation comes to make it desolate after it was one inhabited with man, cities, and fruitful.

Those verses speak of God's contemplation (forethought) of things before the foundation of the would-be timeline of this world. There is no "timeline" with God (who is the same yesterday, today, and forever).

 

[Ziggy]

Genesis and Revelation are the Foreword and the Afterword.
The book ends if you will.

The same story is told over and over and over, except everytime it adds more detail in every book.

You run to and fro from front to back and back to front and the whole story reveals itself.

And the biggest culprit of all is idolatry.

1Sa 15:23
For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. Because thou hast rejected the word of the LORD, he hath also rejected thee from being king.
Act 17:16
Now while Paul waited for them at Athens, his spirit was stirred in him, when he saw the city wholly given to idolatry.
1Co 10:14
Wherefore, my dearly beloved, flee from idolatry.
Col 3:5
Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:
Col 3:6
For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:

Eze 14:6
Therefore say unto the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Repent, and turn yourselves from your idols; and turn away your faces from all your abominations.
Eze 14:7
For every one of the house of Israel, or of the stranger that sojourneth in Israel, which separateth himself from me, and setteth up his idols in his heart, and putteth the stumblingblock of his iniquity before his face, and cometh to a prophet to enquire of him concerning me; I the LORD will answer him by myself:
Eze 14:8
And I will set my face against that man, and will make him a sign and a proverb, and I will cut him off from the midst of my people; and ye shall know that I am the LORD.
Eze 14:9
And if the prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I the LORD have deceived that prophet, and I will stretch out my hand upon him, and will destroy him from the midst of my people Israel.
Eze 14:10
And they shall bear the punishment of their iniquity: the punishment of the prophet shall be even as the punishment of him that seeketh unto him;
Eze 14:11
That the house of Israel may go no more astray from me, neither be polluted any more with all their transgressions; but that they may be my people, and I may be their God, saith the Lord GOD.


Gen 3:14
And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:
Gen 3:17
And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;
Gen 3:18
Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field;
Gen 3:19
In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.

Eze 14:10
And they shall bear the punishment of their iniquity: the punishment of the prophet shall be even as the punishment of him that seeketh unto him;

Again:

Shun Idolatry​

Deu 13:1
If there arise among you a prophet, or a dreamer of dreams, and giveth thee a sign or a wonder,
Deu 13:2
And the sign or the wonder come to pass, whereof he spake unto thee, saying, Let us go after other gods, which thou hast not known, and let us serve them;
Deu 13:3
Thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams: for the LORD your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul.
Deu 13:4
Ye shall walk after the LORD your God, and fear him, and keep his commandments, and obey his voice, and ye shall serve him, and cleave unto him.
Deu 13:5
And that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams, shall be put to death; because he hath spoken to turn you away from the LORD your God, which brought you out of the land of Egypt, and redeemed you out of the house of bondage, to thrust thee out of the way which the LORD thy God commanded thee to walk in. So shalt thou put the evil away from the midst of thee.

Adam wasn't formed in Eden. God put him in the garden.
Did God form adam from the earth of Egypt? That's where Cain went looking for a wife.
That's where God called Abram from. And that's where God told Jacob not to go.
And that's where Jesus was spiritually crucified.

Rev 11:8
And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

Where did God get the dust from to form Adam?

Book ends from beginning to end and back again.
It's in there. You just have to see with your eyes and hear with your ears and learn to discern.

Wherefore my dearly beloved, Flee from Idolatry
Jas 4:7
Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.

just thinkin..
Hugs

 

[Truthnightmare]

Those verses speak of God's contemplation (forethought) of things before the foundation of the would-be timeline of this world. There is no "timeline" with God (who is the same yesterday, today, and forever).

I asked how can Eve be the mother of Adam, and your response was, because “the foundation of the world”

I pointed to Jeremiah and the destruction of an age, your response is “before the foundation of the world”

What about 2 Peter?
Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:

The world did not perish during the flood of Noah, so what is being relayed here? Let me guess… “before the foundation of the world”

And if I may be frank, I do not agree with your utilization of the phrase as you seem to associate the term without boundaries.

Perhaps this shall suffice…

To arrive at the true meaning of this expression, we must note there are two words translated "foundation" in the New Testament:

(1) themelios, and

(2) katabole.

The Noun, themelios, occurs in Luke 6:48, 49; 14:29. Acts 16:26. Rom. 15:20. 1Cor. 3:10, 11, 12. Eph. 2:20. 1Tim. 6:19. 2Tim. 2:19. Heb. 6:1; 11:10. Rev. 21:14, 19. It is never used of the world (kosmos) or the earth (ge). The corresponding Verb (themeliou) occurs in Matt. 7:25. Luke 6:48. Eph. 3:17. Col. 1:23. Heb. 1:10 and 1Pet. 5:10. The verb is only once used of the earth (ge). Heb. 1:10. A comparison of all these passages will show that these are proper and regular terms for the English words "to found", and "foundation".

The Noun, katabole, occurs in Matt. 13:35; 25:34. Luke 11:50. John 17:24. Eph. 1:4. Heb. 4:3; 9:26; 11:11. 1Pet. 1:20. Rev. 13:8; 17:8; and the corresponding Verb (kataballo) occurs in 2Cor. 4:9. Heb. 6:1; and Rev. 12:10. A comparison of all these passages (especially 2Cor. 4:9, and Rev. 12:10) will show that kataballo and katabole are not the proper terms for founding and foundation, but the correct meaning is casting down, or overthrow.

Consistency, therefore, calls for the same translation in Heb. 6:1, where, instead of "not laying again", the rendering should be "not casting down". That is to say, the foundation already laid, of repentance, &c., was not to be cast down or overthrown, but was to be left -- and progress made unto the perfection. Accordingly, the Noun katabole, derived from, and cognate with the Verb, ought to be translated "disruption", or "ruin".

The remarkable thing is that in all occurrences (except Heb. 11:11) the word is connected with "the world" (Gr. kosmos. Ap. 129. 1), and therefore the expression should be rendered "the disruption (or ruin) of the world", clearly referring to the condition indicated in Gen. 1:2, and described in 2Pet. 3:5, 6. For the earth was not created tohu (Isa. 45:18), but became so, as stated in the Hebrew of Gen 1:2 and confirmed by 2Pet. 3:6, where "the world that then was by the word of God" (Gen. 1:1), perished, and "the heavens and the earth which are now, by the same word "were created (Gen. 2:4), and are "kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment" (2Pet. 3:7) which shall usher in the "new heavens and the new earth" of 2Pet. 3:13.

"The disruption of the world" is an event forming a great dividing line in the dispensations of the ages. In Gen. 1:1 we have the founding of the world (Heb. 1:10 = themeliou), but in Gen. 1:2 we have itsoverthrow.

This is confirmed by a further remarkable fact, that the phrase, which occurs ten times, is associated with the Preposition apo = from (Ap. 104. iv) seven times, and with pros = before (Ap. 104. xiv) three times. The former refers to the kingdom and is connected with the "counsels" of God; the latter refers to the Mystery (or Secret. See Ap. 192) and is connected with the "purpose" of God (See John 17:24. Eph. 1:4. 1Pet. 1:20).

Ample New Testament testimony is thus given to the profoundly significant fact recorded in Gen. 1:2, that "the earth became tohu and bohu (i.e. waste and desolate); and darkness was on the face of the deep", before the creation of "the heavens and the earth which are now" (2Pet. 3:7). ~ E.W. Bullinger

We are definitely in disagreement, but that’s ok, we are to learn from each other, and as believers we have been made kin. Peace and enjoy the season!
I

 

[ScottA]

I asked how can Eve be the mother of Adam, and your response was, because “the foundation of the world”

I pointed to Jeremiah and the destruction of an age, your response is “before the foundation of the world”

What about 2 Peter?
Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:

The world did not perish during the flood of Noah, so what is being relayed here? Let me guess… “before the foundation of the world”

And if I may be frank, I do not agree with your utilization of the phrase as you seem to associate the term without boundaries.

Perhaps this shall suffice…

To arrive at the true meaning of this expression, we must note there are two words translated "foundation" in the New Testament:


The Noun, themelios, occurs in Luke 6:48, 49; 14:29. Acts 16:26. Rom. 15:20. 1Cor. 3:10, 11, 12. Eph. 2:20. 1Tim. 6:19. 2Tim. 2:19. Heb. 6:1; 11:10. Rev. 21:14, 19. It is never used of the world (kosmos) or the earth (ge). The corresponding Verb (themeliou) occurs in Matt. 7:25. Luke 6:48. Eph. 3:17. Col. 1:23. Heb. 1:10 and 1Pet. 5:10. The verb is only once used of the earth (ge). Heb. 1:10. A comparison of all these passages will show that these are proper and regular terms for the English words "to found", and "foundation".

The Noun, katabole, occurs in Matt. 13:35; 25:34. Luke 11:50. John 17:24. Eph. 1:4. Heb. 4:3; 9:26; 11:11. 1Pet. 1:20. Rev. 13:8; 17:8; and the corresponding Verb (kataballo) occurs in 2Cor. 4:9. Heb. 6:1; and Rev. 12:10. A comparison of all these passages (especially 2Cor. 4:9, and Rev. 12:10) will show that kataballo and katabole are not the proper terms for founding and foundation, but the correct meaning is casting down, or overthrow.

Consistency, therefore, calls for the same translation in Heb. 6:1, where, instead of "not laying again", the rendering should be "not casting down". That is to say, the foundation already laid, of repentance, &c., was not to be cast down or overthrown, but was to be left -- and progress made unto the perfection. Accordingly, the Noun katabole, derived from, and cognate with the Verb, ought to be translated "disruption", or "ruin".

The remarkable thing is that in all occurrences (except Heb. 11:11) the word is connected with "the world" (Gr. kosmos. Ap. 129. 1), and therefore the expression should be rendered "the disruption (or ruin) of the world", clearly referring to the condition indicated in Gen. 1:2, and described in 2Pet. 3:5, 6. For the earth was not created tohu (Isa. 45:18), but became so, as stated in the Hebrew of Gen 1:2 and confirmed by 2Pet. 3:6, where "the world that then was by the word of God" (Gen. 1:1), perished, and "the heavens and the earth which are now, by the same word "were created (Gen. 2:4), and are "kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment" (2Pet. 3:7) which shall usher in the "new heavens and the new earth" of 2Pet. 3:13.

"The disruption of the world" is an event forming a great dividing line in the dispensations of the ages. In Gen. 1:1 we have the founding of the world (Heb. 1:10 = themeliou), but in Gen. 1:2 we have itsoverthrow.

This is confirmed by a further remarkable fact, that the phrase, which occurs ten times, is associated with the Preposition apo = from (Ap. 104. iv) seven times, and with pros = before (Ap. 104. xiv) three times. The former refers to the kingdom and is connected with the "counsels" of God; the latter refers to the Mystery (or Secret. See Ap. 192) and is connected with the "purpose" of God (See John 17:24. Eph. 1:4. 1Pet. 1:20).

Ample New Testament testimony is thus given to the profoundly significant fact recorded in Gen. 1:2, that "the earth became tohu and bohu (i.e. waste and desolate); and darkness was on the face of the deep", before the creation of "the heavens and the earth which are now" (2Pet. 3:7). ~ E.W. Bullinger

We are definitely in disagreement, but that’s ok, we are to learn from each other, and as believers we have been made kin. Peace and enjoy the season!
I

Thank you for your kind wishes. Still it would appear that you are continuing to lean on your study of the trees to understand the forest and getting somewhat lost in the details. In other words, that's all interesting, but the words are discerned spiritually. Which is no disadvantage against your expressed knowledge of the details (any more than what science tells us of the origins of the universe or the age of the earth). Which prompts me to remind you that the things you have listed only point to the things unseen, which unlike your own dialog, I have been speaking of, that is, I have not been speaking of the object that you have been, but of the subject for which they were and are made manifest.

Thus, if the phrase of "before the foundation of the world" were stated only once or in many different ways, it is more the measure of the many ways God has appealed or offered us the insight which I have plainly referred to regarding the reality of God and truth amidst the many shadows that otherwise obscure the view causing things to appear dimly. Which, I know and understand, does not align with the logic that you have employed--but we speak of God who for the most part is Himself unseen.

So, yes, I have been translating the unseen into the seen and vice versa, and if you continue to limit yourself to what is seen, we accomplish nothing.

 

[Truthnightmare]

Thank you for your kind wishes. Still it would appear that you are continuing to lean on your study of the trees to understand the forest and getting somewhat lost in the details. In other words, that's all interesting, but the words are discerned spiritually. Which is no disadvantage against your expressed knowledge of the details (any more than what science tells us of the origins of the universe or the age of the earth). Which prompts me to remind you that the things you have listed only point to the things unseen, which unlike your own dialog, I have been speaking of, that is, I have not been speaking of the object that you have been, but of the subject for which they were and are made manifest.

Thus, if the phase of "before the foundation of the world" were stated only once or in many different ways, is more the measure of the many ways God has appealed or offered us the insight which I have plainly referred to regarding the reality of God and truth amidst the many shadows that otherwise obscure the view causing things to appear dimly. Which, I know and understand, does not align with the logic that you have employed--but we speak of God who for the most part is Himself unseen.

So, yes, I have been translating the unseen into the seen and vice versa, and if you continue to limit yourself to what is seen, we accomplish nothing.

I will consider your words..
Peace to you ScottA

 

[Mr E]

This line of thinking goes down a deep hole friend. I see a few errors, or what I believe to be errors, however; for time sake I will present the following, as we keep “trees” in mind.

Ezekiel 31:3 "Behold, the Assyrian was a cedar in Lebanon with fair branches, and with a shadowing shroud, and of an high stature; and his top was among the think boughs."


Remember in our earlier discussion about the "Assyrian" and the "Box tree"? This "Assyrian", or in the Hebrew text, "teashshur" [box tree] is claiming himself to be a "cedar of Lebanon", or one of God's own people. The "cedars of Lebanon" are used by God in reference to the Israelites. So we see the word "Assyrian" does not belong here. This is a deception of the Hebrew word being mistranslated. "teashshur", or Satan, was changed to Assyrian to throw off the reader.

This was not by accident, but through the design of the Kenite scribes intentionally. See also Ezekiel 27:6, and Isaiah 41:19.


Ezekiel 31:4 "The waters made him great, the deep set him up on high with her rivers running round about his plants, and sent out her little rivers unto all the trees of the field."


This "tree" is "Satan", and the description of the tree is really a description of Satan, who was created in perfect beauty.

The "waters" are the nations [peoples]; his plants are Satan's children, the Kenites; who through the sexual union between Eve and Satan in the Garden of Eden, produced their son, "Cain". The Kenites are the offspring of "Cain", and are not of Adam, Abraham, Jacob [Israel] or any part of the House of Israel [the cedars of Lebanon]. "Kenite" in Strong's Hebrew dictionary, numbers 7014, and 7017 identify the Kenites as a separate oriental tribe, of the seed, or offspring of Cain, the first son of Eve. If you can understand this, the rest of this chapter will be made easier.

The "trees" of the field are the peoples of the whole world. So we see the prophecy is starting to take form.


Ezekiel 31:5 "Therefore his height was exalted above all the trees of the field, and his boughs were multiplied, and his branches became long because of the multitude of waters, when he shot forth."


Remember in Genesis 3:1; "Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?"

Satan was more subtle than all the Living beings of God's creation. In Ezekiel 28:3; we were also told that Satan was wiser then even Daniel.


Ezekiel 31:6 "All the fowls of heaven made their nests in his boughs, and under his branches did all the beasts of the field bring forth their young, and under his shadow dwelt all great nations."


Satan always found room for corruption, and deception through his offspring, the Kenites, is obvious by the deceptions they use in commerce and banking, the fields that they control. They have always hidden in the shadows of Great nations, and lived well, as they rob through their deceit. Politics and religion are also strong areas for their advancement, and brother Judah gets the brunt of the blame, because God's people are ignorant of this hidden race, and how they take control.


Ezekiel 31:7 "Thus was he fair in his greatness, in the length of his branches: for his root was by great waters."


Ezekiel 31:8 "The cedars in the garden of God could not hide him: the fir trees were not like his boughs, and the chestnut trees were not like his branches; nor any tree in the garden of God was like unto him in his beauty."


The "garden of God" is the "garden of Eden, of Genesis 2:8. The "fir trees" then are an example of eternal beings. God states in Hosea 14:8 that He [God] is like a great fir tree. These fir trees are examples of eternal beings. Here in Ezekiel 31:8, God is telling Satan; you are not like me, for your just an old box or chestnut tree.

However, we are told here that Satan's tree, or body is also not like any other tree [person] that God has created. For God created Satan's beauty in the full pattern of beauty. Before Satan's fall, in the world that was, Satan must have held a very high position in God's heavenly order. For God created Satan above all His other created beings, and his purpose and duties were to protect the "Cherub that covereth", which is God's holy mountain.


God anointed Satan for the highest of positions, and Satan's pride caused him to fall. See Ezekiel 28:14:15. Because of his pride, Satan has been sentenced to death.

Ezekiel 31:9 "I have made him fair by the multitude of his branches: so that all the trees of Eden, that were in the garden of God, envied him."


We are back in the Garden of Eden again [Genesis 2], and though the word "tree" is used, it is still in reference to people. It is sort of like a parable where we are substituting the word trees for people. All races, including Adam and Eve envied Satan. He used his wisdom and great beauty as a tool to subdue all mankind and upset God's eternal plan. ~ TSO​

Yes. Kind of.

Trees, stones…. These physical elements, when considered in the spiritual context (the spiritual realm) are always associated with physical people. The things that “houses” are made of, for we are dwelling places for spirit. Temporary housing.

In the spiritual context- ”a man” references a spiritual man, and not a physical man. All of these “animals” reference spiritual attributes— of all kinds, that can be associated with spiritual beings that descend and take up residence in those physical “houses.”

Or something like that.

 

[Ziggy]

Yes. Kind of.

Trees, stones…. These physical elements, when considered in the spiritual context (the spiritual realm) are always associated with physical people. The things that “houses” are made of, for we are dwelling places for spirit. Temporary housing.

In the spiritual context- ”a man” references a spiritual man, and not a physical man. All of these “animals” reference spiritual attributes— of all kinds, that can be associated with spiritual beings that descend and take up residence in those physical “houses.”

Or something like that.

Kind of like Noah's ark with all the clean and unclean animals.
I see this as Israel (clean) and Gentiles(unclean) entering into the kingdom of heaven and Jesus is the door that was opened and shut to bring them in and let them out.
The flood is the evil/darkness which covers the earth. But we are safe in Him. Jesus the Ark of Noah.

Interesting about the raven that went out and traveled through the earth to and fro.
And the dove that found an olive branch.

Why a snake, why a raven. It must have something to do with their characteristics.

long day..
Hugs

 

[Pierac]

والغرض من هذا الموضوع ليس معرفة من يستطيع واحد
يصل آخر

Did you actually write this.... What a Girly Man...

What were you Thinking!!!

 

[Truthnightmare]

Did you actually write this.... What a Girly Man...

What were you Thinking!!!

I don’t take you seriously…

James 1:26
If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion is vain.

So you think I’m girly huh? Fortunately we can determine if this is true. Would you like the opportunity to to test your notion in person?

 

[Pierac]

I don’t take you seriously…

James 1:26
If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion is vain.

So you think I’m girly huh? Fortunately we can determine if this is true. Would you like the opportunity to to test your notion in person?

Now you got me thinking... Maybe I was wrong.... Your a Little Girly Man... not quite Girly.... Like you wear pull-ups... not quite ready for panties!

Seriously

 

[Truthnightmare]

Now you got me thinking... Maybe I was wrong.... Your a Little Girly Man... not quite Girly.... Like you wear pull-ups... not quite ready for panties!

Seriously

You’re making a fool of yourself!

 

[marks]

I don’t take you seriously…

James 1:26
If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion is vain.

So you think I’m girly huh? Fortunately we can determine if this is true. Would you like the opportunity to to test your notion in person?

Will you respond in kind? Or take the high road?

Much love!

 

[Pierac]

You’re making a fool of yourself!

No... I'm making a fool of you... there is a difference... You just don't have eyes to see...

Enjoy your day... Peace.... Chill....

 

[Truthnightmare]

Will you respond in kind? Or take the high road?

Much love!

Proverbs 12:16 thx

 

[marks]

Proverbs 12:16 thx

Proverbs 12:16 KJV
A fool's wrath is presently known: but a prudent man covereth shame.

Much love!