Many Say ‘Just Believe’… But What Did Jesus Actually Teach?

[Gray_Joy]

I think he may KNOW that everyone will not recieve him in faith. But he does not wish it.

Wish? No.
Chooses it,yes. Just as he tells us.

 

[mailmandan]

we are justified not saved until death and judgment

Justified =:saved from the PENALTY of sin. Glorified = saved from the PRESENCE of sin. This can be confusing for works-salvationists.

justified freely by grace which provides union with God and His saints in the new covenant

Amen!

then we must participate in sanctification and perseverance

Not must, but will. (Romans 8:30)

why is the virtue of patience so often presented in scripture for us?

Because it confirms our union with Christ. You make it sound like patience is a difficult self endeavor that most Christians will fail to achieve, which culminates in works righteousness.

Hebrews 6:12
That ye be not slothful, but followers of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises.

Hebrews 10:36
For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done they will of God, ye might receive the promise.

Patience is not simply conjured up through the flesh. Patience is a fruit of the Spirit (Galatians 5:22) for those who have received the Holy Spirit and is directly received through God's grace rather than solely through human willpower.

James 1:3
Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience.

James 1:4
But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing.

2 Peter 1:6
And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;

Again, this is not mere human willpower. It is God who works in believers both to will and to do for His good pleasure. (Philippians 2:13)

Revelation 14:12
Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus. (rev 12:17)

'Descriptive' of the saints.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Wish? No.
Chooses it,yes. Just as he tells us.

He choses to save everyone who sees and believes, Yes John 6..

 

[faithhopecharity]

So, we are initially saved by faith at the starting line of the race but ultimately saved by works at the finish line?

we are justified not saved until death and judgment

justified freely by grace which provides union with God and His saints in the new covenant

then we must participate in sanctification and perseverance

thks

why is the virtue of patience so often presented in scripture for us?

Hebrews 6:12
That ye be not slothful, but followers of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises.

Hebrews 10:36
For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done they will of God, ye might receive the promise.

James 1:3
Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience.

James 1:4
But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing.

No, that's definitely the wrong way to look at it, because a non-believer without Faith can have more works in Christ than all those of Faith put together, and it won't be enough to enter into the Kingdom of Heaven. One must... have FAITH, regardless of works.

However, what did Jesus say about treasure and one's heart? Wherever your treasure is, that is where your heart will be. And that means if you truly have Faith, then you will naturally have works to go along with that Faith. Likewise with the race analogy, you don't just claim to be a race-car driver with only filling out a race application form; you actually participate in the race.

Those against this understanding usually point to man's false Hyper-Grace Dispensationalist philosophy. That system by men is deception, because it promotes the idea that once one believes on Lord Jesus Christ, they have never have sin again, and never fall away. But their falling away and continuing in sin is exactly... what that Hyper-Grace system promotes! They don't watch theirselves for sin, and don't repent of sin, because they are told they cannot sin anymore because of their Faith on Jesus Christ. In that sense, that false doctrine is saying that doing iniquity doesn't really matter, because Jesus has already covered that.

And that is exactly the example Lord Jesus gave in Matthew 7 about those who will say, "Lord, Lord" on the day of His future coming, and He will tell them, "... I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity." (Matt.7:23)

Amen!

will never inherit the kingdom of God or attain to eternal salvation

Eph 5:2-6
gal 5:1-4
gal 5:19-21
gal 6:7-8
1 cor 6:9-10 & 15-20
2 cor 4:7
1 tim 5:12
rev 21:8
rev 21:27
rom 8:1
can lose grace gal 5:4
can have grace in vain 1 cor 15:10
treasure in earthen vessels 2 cor 4:7
1 Jn 3:15 no life (grace)

We have union by grace not eternal salvation!

thks

 

[Gray_Joy]

He choses to save everyone who sees and believes, Yes John 6..

John 6:44: "No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day."

John 6:65: "He went on to say, 'This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled them.'"

John 6:37: "All those the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away."

 

[Eternally Grateful]

John 6:44: "No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day."

John 6:65: "He went on to say, 'This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled them.'"

John 6:37: "All those the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away."

take these in context.

37 All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out. 38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. 39 This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day. 40 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”

 

[Gray_Joy]

take these in context.

37 All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out. 38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. 39 This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day. 40 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”

It's true.
Those whom God calls into his grace will be saved.
Those whom he chooses not to call shall not be saved.

We are God's choice. We are not saved of ourselves , but by the grace of God.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

It's true.
Those whom God calls into his grace will be saved.
Those whom he chooses not to call shall not be saved.

He does not chose anyone not to call.

We are God's choice. We are not saved of ourselves , but by the grace of God.

I did not save myself. God drew me, He brought me to my knees as the tax collector.. All I did was recieve him. It is the work of God I believed.

God will hold us accountable for what we chose, to recieve God in faith. or to deny God in unbelief. He was sent to save the world!

 

[Gray_Joy]

He does not chose anyone not to call.

I did not save myself. God drew me, He brought me to my knees as the tax collector.. All I did was recieve him. It is the work of God I believed.

God will hold us accountable for what we chose, to recieve God in faith. or to deny God in unbelief. He was sent to save the world!

Thank you for the chat.
Be Blessed

 

[Davy]

In context, Jesus is addressing false prophets/bad trees that bear bad fruit. Jesus never knew them (vs. 23) which means they were never saved. Not they were once saved but fell away and are no longer saved.

That I cannot agree with, nor does God's Word. It is instead a doctrine from the Hyper-Grace cannot sin anymore crowd, like, "Their Faith wasn't real, otherwise they would have remained with us."

Those of Matthew 7 that Jesus will say to get away from Him cast out demons in His name, preached Him in the streets, and did many wonderful works in His name. Someone who never truly believed on Jesus cannot do that, because those works come from The Holy Spirit through the 'believer'. And thus those Jesus will turn away represent those who 'fall away' from the Faith, and confirms the idea of the five foolish virgins of Matthew 25 who only had the Oil (Holy Spirit) that was in their lamps, and not a spare vessel of the Oil like the five wise virgins had.

 

[Gray_Joy]

That I cannot agree with, nor does God's Word. It is instead a doctrine from the Hyper-Grace cannot sin anymore crowd

No.
God says what he means and means what he says.
Only those whom he calls can respond and be saved. And with his eternal seal upon us ,his holy spirit works from within us so that we know too,what he said about sin is also true.

Those in him do not make a habit of sinning. If they do they are not his,and he does not know them.

, like, "Their Faith wasn't real, otherwise they would have remained with us."

Those of Matthew 7 that Jesus will say to get away from Him cast out demons in His name, preached Him in the streets, and did many wonderful works in His name. Someone who never truly believed on Jesus cannot do that, because those works come from The Holy Spirit through the 'believer'. And thus those Jesus will turn away represent those who 'fall away' from the Faith, and confirms the idea of the five foolish virgins of Matthew 25 who only had the Oil (Holy Spirit) that was in their lamps, and not a spare vessel of the Oil like the five wise virgins had.

 

[faithhopecharity]

Justified =:saved from the PENALTY of sin. Glorified = saved from the PRESENCE of sin. This can be confusing for works-salvationists.

Amen!

Not must, but will. (Romans 8:30)

Because it confirms our union with Christ. You make it sound like patience is a difficult self endeavor that most Christians will fail to achieve, which culminates in works righteousness.

Patience is not simply conjured up through the flesh. Patience is a fruit of the Spirit (Galatians 5:22) for those who have received the Holy Spirit and is directly received through God's grace rather than solely through human willpower.

Again, this is not mere human willpower. It is God who works in believers both to will and to do for His good pleasure. (Philippians 2:13)

'Descriptive' of the saints.

patience is not faith its love enduring suffering

love in action
love is made known in deeds

we need patience

Hebrews 10:36
For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.

patience is a perfect work, implies merit

James 1:4
But let patience have her perfectwork, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing.

thks

6 sins against the Holy Ghost!

That express extreme resistance to God's grace:

1) Despair: Giving up hope for one's salvation and the forgiveness of sins.

2) Presumption: Hoping to be saved without merit or repentance, relying only on God's mercy.

3) Impugning the known truth: Willfully and stubbornly rejecting the truth revealed by God.

4) Envy of another's spiritual good:

5) Obstinacy in sin: Persisting in a state of sin despite the Holy Spirit's guidance to repent.

6) Final impenitence: Dying without repenting for one's sins.
(the unforgivable sin)

thks