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Featured ....many will say to me 'Lord, Lord'...

Discussion in 'Bible Study Forum' started by quietthinker, Dec 2, 2018.

  1. quietthinker

    quietthinker Well-Known Member

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    You might like to check John 8 particularly verses 30-59

    It opens with, in verse 31 'to the jews who believed on him' and finishes with verse 59 'at this they picked up stones to stone him'

    Surprise, surprise.....Jesus addresses these same Jews who believed on him....yes, they thought he had merit, perhaps for their own purposes and yet a few verses later were ready to kill him. Now isn't that an interesting take?

    Is it any different today?....many loudly proclaiming their allegiance but with knives in their pockets. How do they do it? ....diffusion, misunderstanding (deliberate?) the insistence on views that have them deceived all the while claiming to be 'Abrahams children' ....seekers for their own temporal glory and language smoother than poo.

    Ultimately, the stones they pick up against the innocent reveal their identity
     
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  2. 101G

    101G Well-Known Member

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    "My people are destroyed for lack of KNOWLEDGE". why? because they "reject" knowledge. and what's the result? I will also "reject" you.

    what an indictment.
     
  3. Episkopos

    Episkopos Well-Known Member

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    People seem satisfied with knowledge ABOUT God. But is that the knowledge that is lacking among God's people?

    Never have there been more bibles in the world than now. Yet, never has there been so much darkness in the world.

    There is a famine in the earth...of knowing God and hearing His words (prophetic as well as direct revelation).

    IOW...the prophets of God are not being heard. AND people are not in a position to hear the Lord.

    But there is yet another crucial element of knowledge that is missing. We don't know ourselves as we ought. We place ourselves in the scriptures according to our own conceits. Why don't we identify with being naked and blind, rather than blessed and chosen? Or both?

    So then our outside man filters out the truth so as to appeal to our egos...thus sidestepping the truth that would make us free.

    Freedom is intolerable to the carnal man. He prefers security and a pat on the back. Only the wise receive correction.
     
  4. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member

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    I visit a few Christian forums from time to time and many are down right gnarly in their treatment of others. But it really makes those with love in their hearts shine against the contrast.
     
  5. 101G

    101G Well-Known Member

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    I agree, (Hebrews 5:12)
     
  6. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member

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    “Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.” (Matthew 7:21–23) (KJV 1900)

    A question I ask is which end time churches come closest to this description and which ones do not?
     
  7. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    More spiritual confusion being promoted by you. Why would Christians identify themselves as being naked and blind, when that is the condition of the unsaved? And how could both things be true at one and the same time?

    If a person is genuinely a child of God, he or she is clothed with the righteousness of Christ (therefore impossible to be spiritually naked).

    If a person has the the indwelling Holy Spirit, he or she can see spiritual things (therefore impossible to be spiritually blind).
     
  8. Heb 13:8

    Heb 13:8 Well-Known Member

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    Ezek 13

    “ ‘Because they lead my people astray, saying, “Peace,” when there is no peace, and because, when a flimsy wall is built, they cover it with whitewash, 11therefore tell those who cover it with whitewash that it is going to fall. Rain will come in torrents, and I will send hailstones hurtling down, and violent winds will burst forth. 12When the wall collapses, will people not ask you, “Where is the whitewash you covered it with?” 13“ ‘Therefore this is what the Sovereign Lord says: In my wrath I will unleash a violent wind, and in my anger hailstones and torrents of rain will fall with destructive fury. 14I will tear down the wall you have covered with whitewash and will level it to the ground so that its foundation will be laid bare. When it b falls, you will be destroyed in it; and you will know that I am the Lord. 15So I will pour out my wrath against the wall and against those who covered it with whitewash. I will say to you, “The wall is gone and so are those who whitewashed it, 16those prophets of Israel who prophesied to Jerusalem and saw visions of peace for her when there was no peace, declares the Sovereign Lord.” ’

    Matt 7

    15Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. 16Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? 17Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. 18A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. 19Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. 20Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. 21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. 24Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: 25And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock. 26And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: 27And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.
     
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  9. Hidden In Him

    Hidden In Him Well-Known Member

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    Great post! I'm done getting upset with people. Even if their teachings are damaging people and leading them astray, I treat them with love now. It doesn't mean not confronting people over what they teach, but we are ultimately called to be like our Father in Heaven, who out of love sends rain on both the just and the unjust : )
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2018 at 11:02 PM
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  10. brakelite

    brakelite Well-Known Member

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    We can all be very friendly and chatty and loving with one another until someone lays our glory in the dust by pointing out some discrepancy in our faith system which offends us because we are so sure we are right. Then we start shooting messengers with our double barrelled Bibles quickly forgetting what Jesus said regarding choosing the high places at the table.
     
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  11. Hidden In Him

    Hidden In Him Well-Known Member

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    Quiet, not that I'm trying to derail your premise here, but I was taking a closer look at this, and I'm not totally sure He was addressing those Jews that believed on Him but rather the ones in the temple that he was talking to before he turned to the believers. Let me quote the text and show you what I mean:

    20 These words spake he in the treasury, as he taught in the temple: and no man took him; because his hour was not yet come.
    21 He said therefore again unto them, I go away, and ye shall seek me, and shall die in your sin: whither I go, ye cannot come.
    22 The Jews therefore said, "Will he kill himself, that he saith, 'Whither I go, ye cannot come'?"
    23 And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world.
    24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for except ye believe that I am [he], ye shall die in your sins.
    25 They said therefore unto him, "Who art thou?" Jesus said unto them, "Even that which I have also spoken unto you from the beginning.
    26 I have many things to speak and to judge concerning you: howbeit He that sent me is true; and the things which I heard from Him, these speak I unto the world."
    27 They perceived not that he spake to them of the Father.
    28 Jesus therefore said, "When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am [he], and [that] I do nothing of myself, but as the Father taught me, I speak these things.
    29 And He that sent me is with me; He hath not left me alone; for I do always the things that are pleasing to him."
    30 As He spake these things, many believed on him.
    31 Jesus therefore said to those Jews that had believed him, "If ye abide in my word, [then] are ye truly my disciples; 32 and ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free."
    33 They answered unto him, "We are Abraham's seed, and have never yet been in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?"
    34 Jesus answered them, "Verily, verily, I say unto you, Every one that commits sin is the bondservant of sin.
    35 And the bondservant abideth not in the house for ever: the son abideth for ever.
    36 If therefore the Son shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.
    37 I know that ye are Abraham's seed: yet ye seek to kill me, because my word hath not free course in you."

    See, the Jews who didn't perceive what He was saying in v.22 also didn't understand what He meant in v.27. But then he encourages those who believe in Him in v.31 to let His word abide in them, with the suggestion being that they continue letting it abide in them since they already believed in Him. Yet to those He is addressing in v.37 he tells them that His word does not have free course in them.

    So I think He was addressing two different groups there. The Jews who did not believe are the ones who again answer Him in v.33. The argument they use there is similar to the one John the baptist warned the Pharisees not to use in Matthew 3:9, and aside from when Jesus turns to those who believe it is the Pharisees He is addressing in John 8 (see John 8:13).

    Blessings in Christ.
     
  12. quietthinker

    quietthinker Well-Known Member

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    Thank you for your comments Hidden...please reread the texts I quoted, John 8:30-59 Jesus is addressing the jews who believed in him as stated in vs 31. The continuing context confirms this. There is no shift of audience.....finally those same ones addressed took up stones to throw at him, vs 59.
     
  13. mjrhealth

    mjrhealth Well-Known Member

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    knowledge helps little when there is no wisdom to go with it

    1Co 8:1 Now as touching things offered unto idols, we know that we all have knowledge. Knowledge puffeth up, but charity edifieth.
    1Co 8:2 And if any man think that he knoweth any thing, he knoweth nothing yet as he ought to know.
    1Co 8:3 But if any man love God, the same is known of him.
     
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  14. Hidden In Him

    Hidden In Him Well-Known Member

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    Ok. I guess we just see it differently. I see a mixed audience, and him addressing both those who believed and those who didn't. But I admit that must be read into the text because it isn't stated explicitly.
     
  15. Taken

    Taken Well-Known Member

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    Yes, many will say Lord, Lord....However their pleading will be AFTER the DOOR is SHUT.

    Luke 13
    1. [25] When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are:
    God Bless,
    Merry Christmas
    Taken
     
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  16. Episkopos

    Episkopos Well-Known Member

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    The kind of knowledge that is lacking is not bible knowledge....the kind that puffs people up. But it is the knowledge of oneself...as well as the ways of God that are lacking.

    In many ways we don't realize how we offend God by grieving His Spirit...or quenching His Spirit. We don't see how we lack faith or how we so often fail to fully trust the Lord in every situation.

    Then we are ignorant of God's ways....on how He cannot accept anything that is at all impure. We can't fathom the possibility that we could be rejected by Him...so we lack the rightful fear that keeps us in the right place.

    Then there is knowledge about how things really are...as in sound doctrine...
     
  17. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member

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    Bible knowledge truly humbles people, making them dedicated empty vessels for God's service. It's people who are full of themselves that puffs up and renders them useless.
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2018 at 8:29 AM
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  18. Episkopos

    Episkopos Well-Known Member

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    I have been to many churches where people are encouraged to put on a religious persona...a posturing...a religious cocoon...through an indoctrination that causes people to "feel" Christian among others who are likewise swept up in the emotional experience. All this is a religious veneer according to the flesh. I think a lot of people don't fully realize how the flesh can act religious...in fact ALL religious activity is according to the flesh.

    But this outer religious treatment of the flesh creates but a superficial link with God...whereby people cry out to Him for miracles...visible ones of course....since the whole thing is external to the true self. It is an external religion for the external persona of a man. Many people are looking to save themselves...it is according to human nature to try to survive. So the superficial external gospel is targeting the religious self life that is so easy to adopt. Many will be fooled into thinking that this is the true gospel, having never known the depths of Christ. But there is no depth or root in this that causes a real connection to God.

    It is no wonder then that Jesus would not know these people who use an external Christianity to look for external improvements to their lives.

    But God is not interested in getting to know us according to the flesh. We are not even to know each other this way.
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2018 at 8:33 AM
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  19. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member

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    People find it easier to believe in what they can see. But this is not biblical faith. So, many today crave physical stimuli as a crutch to fill the void for their lack of genuine faith.
     
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  20. Episkopos

    Episkopos Well-Known Member

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    Here is a sinister irony.

    Religion seeks to bridge the gap between God and people. Religion gives people a name and promises based on adherence to it. One of these names is "Christian."

    But religion IS that gap. When we fall into religion...we fall into the breach. So then rather than religion bridging the gap between us and God...it causes people to throw themselves headlong into the breach to their own destruction.

    Just as strong drugs cause a person to think they can fly off of buildings (to their own destruction)...so religion is a drug of the soul that causes people to throw themselves from the relative safety of humility and ignorance into the breach of a failed knowledge of God.

    But this continues to be ever popular with people looking for a quick fix.
     
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