Mary found the tomb empty...where did Jesus body go?

[michaelvpardo]

Do people usually carry a Bible to those sermons where people "get in the spirit", and fall down, or those faith healing tele-evangelist sessions? I don't usually see that, but I personally know of many services where many people flood there without a Bible, and do quite a lot of singing, and listen to the pastor say "the Bible says" even though he never opens a Bible.

I couldn't tell you. I've never attended any pentecostal church regularly though I went with my former wife to a single service to hear a friend of hers sing or something like that. I don't know what denomination it was, but the congregation was predominantly African American, one gentleman was bouncing around a bit during the service speaking "tongues", and they had a time for sharing testimony.

I was a little uncomfortable at first because this wasn't my normal experience and my wife and I were the only Caucasian faces, but I was moved to speak and greeted with Amens and affirmations of the Spirit, so accepted it for what it was. I didn't notice if anyone was carrying Bibles, but His Spirit was evident.

 

[michaelvpardo]

I am sure you aware of God being a Sovereign God....and He establishes His Laws/Principles and does not change His mind....so God being all powerful could have simply punished Satan and the one third of angels that fell with him and never create mankind....thrown into an eternal bliss....so why didn't He?
I had a vision of things that explained why but I won't share here. Maybe send it to you privately...
But bottom...Adam opened a doorway that Satan entered through to deceive man and thumb his nose at God basically saying your creation is weak and pathetic....look how easily I was able to cause chaos and havoc on your Sovereignty.
So God created a plan for redemption to bring man back into a relationship with Him through Jesus...the Sacrificial Lamb of God.
And in this plan it would reverse the consequences...curses that came to man and basically go back through that same door that was opened and shut it and seal it forever.

Satan is always counterfeiting God's ways, personality, power and such...

I know this is extremely spoken as theory and it may be hard to grasp what I am trying to show you but it really is simple...when you a door you must close it....

Scripture actually calls Jesus the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world in Revelation 13:8 and if you can accept that God is both sovereign and "knows the end from the beginning " as in Isaiah 46:10, then our redemption wasn't "plan B" and even our fall was ultimately part of God's plan, but for our good and His glory.

What is revealed is for us, but the secret things belong to God (though "hidden manna" is a delight. )

 

[michaelvpardo]

Thanks for your response Enoch... You are not the guy who walked with God, and God took him, are you?

Are you making some assumptions here, based on suppositions though?
For example, you used Hebrews 9:11, 12, but why do you suppose this refers to an earlier ascension, than the actual one Luke reports on, in the book of Acts?

At Hebrews 12, Paul is addressing first century annointed Christians. Why have you applied it to early Jews, supposing that they are Saints?

You have assumed that these went to heaven, but on the basis that you suppose that Paul's address to first century born again - annointed sons of God, is addressing "OT Saints".
Can you explain how you did that?

Would the idea that faithful ones of old, went to heaven, not contradict these scriptures... John 3:13; Hebrews 6:19, 20; Hebrews 10:19, 20 ?
This is what Paul speaks of at length, in Hebrews 9, isn't it?
Jesus make a covenant with his disciples, to be in his kingdom, isn't that so? Luke 22:28-30 These are the ones he promised to return for, to take them home. John 14:3

What do you think about Jesus' words at Luke 12:32?

No, the book of Hebrews is written to Hebrew believers under the law of Moses or some verses would be contrary to sound doctrine. There is no proof that it was written by Paul, because the author of the letter isn't identified in it (which was very uncharacteristic of Paul), and any Hebrew believer familiar with the law and the prophets could have written the same if possessing the Holy Spirit and able to write.

The Apostles weren't the only Jewish believers in Christ, and Paul wasn't the only Jewish believer who was trained in scripture and believed that Jesus is Lord, but all Hebrew believers were born under the law and had to learn the doctrines of grace. Paul rebuked Peter for hypocrisy, but Peter's hypocrisy was the result of his Jewish traditions under the law. Paul actually confesses to a similar hypocrisy, putting on one face for one group and another face for another group, with the justification that he might save some. Paul was a real piece of work, but all the Pharisees were.

 

[Heart2Soul]

Scripture actually calls Jesus the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world in Revelation 13:8 and if you can accept that God is both sovereign and "knows the end from the beginning " as in Isaiah 46:10, then our redemption wasn't "plan B" and even our fall was ultimately part of God's plan, but for our good and His glory.

What is revealed is for us, but the secret things belong to God (though "hidden manna" is a delight. )

I glad you could make sense out of what I was saying and my typos...lol.
Oh I definitely believed He saw all things from beginning to end. He is the beginning and end.
I shared not too long ago that God told me that past, present, and future co-exist and it took me awhile to meditate and find support in scripture.
In Revelation Jesus said...I am He who was, who is, and who is to come.
And after further meditation I concluded that God exists outside of time, created the measurements of time for man, and is not bound by time.
You know, 1 day as 1000 years...
This makes me think of the names written in the book of life....from the beginning.
It was already written before we were born...not that God chose them but because He saw all things from beginning to end and made record of what He saw.

Anyway, God's plan of redeeming mankind could only be accomplished by the sacrifice of His Son to take man's sins on Himself....and taking back authority of Satan's power to tempt man and destroy him....
I love you Lord Jesus! Thank you for what you have done for us.
Worthy is the Lamb that was slain.

 

[michaelvpardo]

I glad you could make sense out of what I was saying and my typos...lol.
Oh I definitely believed He saw all things from beginning to end. He is the beginning and end.
I shared not too long ago that God told me that past, present, and future co-exist and it took me awhile to meditate and find support in scripture.
In Revelation Jesus said...I am He who was, who is, and who is to come.
And after further meditation I concluded that God exists outside of time, created the measurements of time for man, and is not bound by time.
You know, 1 day as 1000 years...
This makes me think of the names written in the book of life....from the beginning.
It was already written before we were born...not that God chose them but because He saw all things from beginning to end and made record of what He saw.

Anyway, God's plan of redeeming mankind could only be accomplished by the sacrifice of His Son to take man's sins on Himself....and taking back authority of Satan's power to tempt man and destroy him....
I love you Lord Jesus! Thank you for what you have done for us.
Worthy is the Lamb that was slain.

Awesome. Before I was born again I studied science as well as scripture and one book that I read was Einstein's book on the theories of general and special relativity. I won't explain it in depth, but Einstein explained mathematically that time is a spatial dimension and it's passage varies with relative velocity. The implication that Einstein described was that all time coexists spatially and that we just experience it sequentially. Einstein believed in a God, but couldn't accept the God of scripture and defined God in his own way, but his theory confirms your understanding and gives me insight into God's manifestation as "the trinity." Eg. Time is part of creation (there is no time before the beginning), so God existed outside of time in "eternity" as the invisible immortal God, but entered creation to interact with us through His Holy Spirit and the person of His Son, yet all remain one God. It's difficult to prove from scripture because scripture doesn't contain the discipline of physics, but it is in full agreement with scripture.

I'm actually inclined to believe that those scientists who oppose Einstein's theories, do so because his theories support the existence of God and because "pure" science disallows consideration of the supernatural.

 

[Heart2Soul]

Awesome. Before I was born again I studied science as well as scripture and one book that I read was Einstein's book on the theories of general and special relativity. I won't explain it in depth, but Einstein explained mathematically that time is a spatial dimension and it's passage varies with relative velocity. The implication that Einstein described was that all time coexists spatially and that we just experience it sequentially. Einstein believed in a God, but couldn't accept the God of scripture and defined God in his own way, but his theory confirms your understanding and gives me insight into God's manifestation as "the trinity." Eg. Time is part of creation (there is no time before the beginning), so God existed outside of time in "eternity" as the invisible immortal God, but entered creation to interact with us through His Holy Spirit and the person of His Son, yet all remain one God. It's difficult to prove from scripture because scripture doesn't contain the discipline of physics, but it is in full agreement with scripture.

I'm actually inclined to believe that those scientists who oppose Einstein's theories, do so because his theories support the existence of God and because "pure" science disallows consideration of the supernatural.

WOW! So what a confirmation that what I heard God say to me was indeed Him speaking....
It's so amazing how God begins to reveal things to us....I believe the reason He shared this with me is to.prepare me for walking in the spiritual realm...like Enoch.
So He first had to get me to understand time...(maybe because He will show me things past, present and future.....I am not sure yet....God doesn't show me too much of my future because I have a tendency to be impatient and make it happen in my time...ugh.

Thanks for.sharing that!

 

[michaelvpardo]

WOW! So what a confirmation that what I heard God say to me was indeed Him speaking....
It's so amazing how God begins to reveal things to us....I believe the reason He shared this with me is to.prepare me for walking in the spiritual realm...like Enoch.
So He first had to get me to understand time...(maybe because He will show me things past, present and future.....I am not sure yet....God doesn't show me too much of my future because I have a tendency to be impatient and make it happen in my time...ugh.

Thanks for.sharing that!

The Lord has given me glimpses, like small vignettes of my own future since I was a child, but in remembrance of them in the moment of their occurrence I have the option of choice (they tend to be markers for decisions with specific outcomes). This is like personal prophecy as guidance, allowing me "better choices", but the Scripture says that the just shall live by faith.

If you live according to what you're shown, it can't be strictly called faith unless there remains an option of choice. This is to some extent the same as biblical prophecy, because prophecy was typically given with the option of repentance and rarely just as simple prediction (Messianic prophecy was revelatory and there was no option to Christ.)

In the Old testament God promises to guide us by whispering in our ear, but this still requires faith in believing His voice. You just have to believe that God's guidance is the best choice and that His principal instruction is through His word. It works for me.

 

[EloyCraft]

Read the account of the transformation upon the mount again. It's called a vision and a vision doesn't have to be literal. I don't need you or anyone else to teach me, because God teaches me by His Holy Spirit, received through prayer in an employee parking lot in Jersey city, New Jersey.
I'd be happy to correct you though if you'd like.

It's TransFIGURation. Not transformation.

 

[michaelvpardo]

It's TransFIGURation. Not transformation.

transformation
[ˌtran(t)sfərˈmāSH(ə)n]
NOUN

1. a thorough or dramatic change in form or appearance.
   "its landscape has undergone a radical transformation"
   synonyms:
   change · alteration · modification · variation · conversion · revision · amendment · metamorphosis · transfiguration · evolution ·
   [more]
   • a metamorphosis during the life cycle of an animal.
   • physics
     the induced or spontaneous change of one element into another by a nuclear process.
   • mathematics
     logic
     a process by which one figure, expression, or function is converted into another that is equivalent in some important respect but is differently expressed or represented.
   • linguistics
     a process by which an element in the underlying deep structure of a sentence is converted to an element in the surface structure.
   • biology
     the genetic alteration of a cell by introduction of extraneous DNA, especially by a plasmid.
   • biology
     the heritable modification of a cell from its normal state to a malignant state.

transfiguration
[tran(t)sˌfiɡ(y)əˈrāSH(ə)n]
NOUN

1. a complete change of form or appearance into a more beautiful or spiritual state.
   "in this light the junk undergoes a transfiguration; it shines"
   synonyms:
   change · alteration · modification · variation · conversion · revision · amendment · metamorphosis · evolution · mutation ·
   [more]
   • (the Transfiguration)
     Christ's appearance in radiant glory to three of his disciples (Matthew 17:2, Mark 9:2–3, Luke 9:28–36).
   • the church festival commemorating this, held on August 6.

Sorry chief, the transfiguration is a religious term describing the transformation of Christ. I didn't create the English language, I just understand it.

 

[EloyCraft]

Are y
No,

transformation
[ˌtran(t)sfərˈmāSH(ə)n]
NOUN

1. a thorough or dramatic change in form or appearance.
   "its landscape has undergone a radical transformation"
   synonyms:
   change · alteration · modification · variation · conversion · revision · amendment · metamorphosis · transfiguration · evolution ·
   [more]
   • a metamorphosis during the life cycle of an animal.
   • physics
     the induced or spontaneous change of one element into another by a nuclear process.
   • mathematics
     logic
     a process by which one figure, expression, or function is converted into another that is equivalent in some important respect but is differently expressed or represented.
   • linguistics
     a process by which an element in the underlying deep structure of a sentence is converted to an element in the surface structure.
   • biology
     the genetic alteration of a cell by introduction of extraneous DNA, especially by a plasmid.
   • biology
     the heritable modification of a cell from its normal state to a malignant state.

transfiguration
[tran(t)sˌfiɡ(y)əˈrāSH(ə)n]
NOUN

1. a complete change of form or appearance into a more beautiful or spiritual state.
   "in this light the junk undergoes a transfiguration; it shines"
   synonyms:
   change · alteration · modification · variation · conversion · revision · amendment · metamorphosis · evolution · mutation ·
   [more]
   • (the Transfiguration)
     Christ's appearance in radiant glory to three of his disciples (Matthew 17:2, Mark 9:2–3, Luke 9:28–36).
   • the church festival commemorating this, held on August 6.

Sorry chief, the transfiguration is a religious term describing the transformation of Christ. I didn't create the English language, I just understand it.

A religious term hmm. The word religious isn't just used to describe worship. Natural human behavior is ritualistic. That is religious. A more precise term includes the spiritual nature of what happened on the mountain.
Yes it was a vision of a reality that wasn't local. What I mean by that Elijah and Moses are a higher state of life. But like I said, " in the light of Christ's Transfiguration."

You should know. A spiritual state doesn't exclude physical reality.

 

[EloyCraft]

Are you on the level? Do you hold to literal interpretation or "symbology"?

Scripture isn't limited to the literal. Words symbolize concepts the concepts don't change but words are migratory. You seem to get that reversed.

 

[michaelvpardo]

Scripture isn't limited to the literal. Words symbolize concepts the concepts don't change but words are migratory. You seem to get that reversed.

I'm not a Mason. They're a spiritual whore and have influenced Christian doctrine for centuries while embracing every religion that holds to a creator and a resurrection.
They even have their own prophecy of a coming kingdom of Masonic Brothers, the Satanic version of Christ's kingdom.

They even invented a constitutional republic to try to grow that kingdom. It's by no means a Christian organization but pagan at its core emphasizing the symbolism of scripture while disregarding the plain meaning of text.

I like to know who I'm talking to and if their denomination was one of the religious systems created by Masonic members to loot the sheep and warp the gospel.
It's hard to test the spirits when some hide behind scripture and practice lies to conceal secret doctrine.

 

[The Disciple John]

I am sure you aware of God being a Sovereign God....and He establishes His Laws/Principles and does not change His mind....so God being all powerful could have simply punished Satan and the one third of angels that fell with him and never create mankind....thrown into an eternal bliss....so why didn't He?
I had a vision of things that explained why but I won't share here. Maybe send it to you privately...

I would really appreciate that, thanks. I'll look forward to it. Don't forget you know. You know how our brains get sometimes.

But bottom...Adam opened a doorway that Satan entered through to deceive man and thumb his nose at God basically saying your creation is weak and pathetic....look how easily I was able to cause chaos and havoc on your Sovereignty.
So God created a plan for redemption to bring man back into a relationship with Him through Jesus...the Sacrificial Lamb of God.
And in this plan it would reverse the consequences...curses that came to man and basically go back through that same door that was opened and shut it and seal it forever.

Satan is always counterfeiting God's ways, personality, power and such...

I know this is extremely spoken as theory and it may be hard to grasp what I am trying to show you but it really is simple...when you a door you must close it....

I totally understand you.
I was sharing this with someone. God had a son before Jesus was born. In fact, God has many sons. He sent one - his only begotten. John 3:16
So Jesus was really God's son before being born on earth - before Adam even existed - Only God's son had another name, in heaven. John 17:5

 

[The Disciple John]

The Father is eternally knowing Himself. God knowing God. This is a Generation. A true Son. You and I can say I give you my word. I am only as good as my word. My word is of my own substance. For God this relationship of knowing and identity generates a rational divine substance. Considering all rational beings are persons God knowing God generates God. God the Father generates God the Son.

I'm sorry I have no idea what you are trying to say.

The thing is... scripture is only useful for proving a point if it means the same thing to those using it. Otherwise it only causes confusion. Reason assents to Faith. Faith and reason go hand and hand. That's the only way meaning can be agreed on. Ever notice that quoting scripture rarely or ever resolves debates between denominations? One doesn't have to have a Bible handy to know and use Scripture to articulate what it means.

I don't find that to be true. Rather, I find that problem occurs because people do what you are doing. They say anything that comes to mind, and do not regard what the scriptures say.
In fact, I find they hardly know what the scriptures say.

When they are put in a position to use scripture, it quickly becomes manifest, when they fuddle by saying something totally foreign to scripture.

Paul said, Every scripture inspired of God is also profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for instruction which is in righteousness - 2 Timothy 3:16
Evidently, the real reason people avoid scripture is because they don't want to be corrected.
They really display the quality opposite to humility, which prevents them knowing or understanding anything in God's word.

 

[The Disciple John]

Assuming that scripture is using metaphor and simile because it isn't our experience is presumption based upon a carnal mind. If the Holy Spirit teaches you a truth about one of these "personifications" then it's reasonable to rest in that understanding. If you're reading poetic literature like the Psalms or wisdom literature like proverbs, it's reasonable to assume that some of the language is figurative. However, if you treat the entire collection of scripture in the same way, you can falsely interpret it to mean almost anything and create the most fanciful doctrines. Didn't some church authority make an argument for the number of angels that could stand on a pin?

Jesus always spoke in parables to the masses that followed Him to see the Jesus show, the healing, the miracles, the signs and wonders, but He gave a biblical reason for doing so and willingly explained things to His disciples and bluntly. His teaching about the Holy Spirit was given directly to His closest disciples, His Apostles and the women who followed and attended to Him. He taught them plainly.

And in His resurrection, He gave the instruction to make disciples of men, baptizing them in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. I don't know the original languages of scripture, but in English the verse is given in singular form not plural, "name" not names. Why would God have us be baptized in the name of some object? What would be the point?

It seems more than a bit absurd to me, but then again I'm trapped in another pointless argument with someone who thinks Job compares men with saints in heaven because Job was a saint and apparently had mystical knowledge of what a saint is.

I can't fathom how a cultists can latch on to a single verse as a basis of doctrine and ignore all other contradictory verses as though they didn't exist. There's no sanity in it. There's no reconciliation or harmonizing of scripture to itself. What kind of god do the cults worship other than themselves?

I'm definitely getting too old for this. I spent about an hour with my old stong's Concordance and a magnifying glass searching for proofs to support what I already know to be accepted and sound doctrine, while knowing that a cultist will reject any and all proofs provided. If that isn't an exercise in futility, I don't know what is.

So, what's your justification for ignoring what scripture plainly says?

Uh. Don't look at me. It's the people latching on to "he", and "will teach" etc. and ignoring the rest of scriptures Lol. Ask them.
Wait. Aren't you doing that?

 

[farouk]

This is true...it could lead to the conclusion that He was now in His glorified body if one considers a glorified body to mean putting off the corruptible and putting on the incorruptible....not to say Jesus committed any sin of the flesh....afterall He was tempted but yet He did not yield to that temptation but resisted and the tempter fled.
But by His obedience when He resurrected then the prophesy was fulfilled in that by Adam all were made sinners and by one man all were made righteous....undoing the works of Satan and destroying the curse of sin and death.

@Heart2Soul There was nothing in the Lord's pre-Resurrection body to respond to sin: John 14.30: "...the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me."

 

[farouk]

Awesome. Before I was born again I studied science as well as scripture and one book that I read was Einstein's book on the theories of general and special relativity. I won't explain it in depth, but Einstein explained mathematically that time is a spatial dimension and it's passage varies with relative velocity. The implication that Einstein described was that all time coexists spatially and that we just experience it sequentially. Einstein believed in a God, but couldn't accept the God of scripture and defined God in his own way, but his theory confirms your understanding and gives me insight into God's manifestation as "the trinity." Eg. Time is part of creation (there is no time before the beginning), so God existed outside of time in "eternity" as the invisible immortal God, but entered creation to interact with us through His Holy Spirit and the person of His Son, yet all remain one God. It's difficult to prove from scripture because scripture doesn't contain the discipline of physics, but it is in full agreement with scripture.

I'm actually inclined to believe that those scientists who oppose Einstein's theories, do so because his theories support the existence of God and because "pure" science disallows consideration of the supernatural.

@michaelvpardo Such a lot is contained in the Lord Jesus' glorious title: 'Alpha and Omega'.... (Revelation 1).

 

[EloyCraft]

I'm not a Mason. They're a spiritual whore and have influenced Christian doctrine for centuries while embracing every religion that holds to a creator and a resurrection.
They even have their own prophecy of a coming kingdom of Masonic Brothers, the Satanic version of Christ's kingdom.

They even invented a constitutional republic to try to grow that kingdom. It's by no means a Christian organization but pagan at its core emphasizing the symbolism of scripture while disregarding the plain meaning of text.

I like to know who I'm talking to and if their denomination was one of the religious systems created by Masonic members to loot the sheep and warp the gospel.
It's hard to test the spirits when some hide behind scripture and practice lies to conceal secret doctrine.

I'm not a Mason. I have no fear whatsoever of an imitation when the real thing belongs to me. Christ gave Himself to His Church. Truth belongs to us. We love it wherever it's found. We can give it , no one can take it from us. We love Truth wherever it's found. Paul demonstrated this in Athens.
Pagans of the past are no more, their symbols are no longer theirs. Paul almost captured the unknown God in Athens. That symbol would have served our Lord from then to.now. I suspect you would be calling it pagan antichristian or whatever not knowing It is serving your Lord.

 

[EloyCraft]

Paul said, Every scripture inspired of God is also profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for instruction which is in righteousness - 2 Timothy 3:16

You can't correct me quoting Scripture nor I you. The Scriptures we believe the same thing about we can use but even those fail us when one of us develops a deeper understanding. These are characteristics of both parties when that happens. The party that developed the faith will recognize what the other one believes is truth and from God. The one that didn't develop deeper understanding will reject the one that did and claim they have parted from the true faith.

 

[Enoch111]

Pagans of the past are no more, their symbols are no longer theirs.

How did you arrive at this conclusion? Paganism has been on the rise in Europe and North America. I will not attach the link to this quote for obvious reasons: "Paganism is growing among our European friends as well. In fact, Great Britain does an excellent job of allowing pagans to identify with what type of pagan they are. Categories such as Pagan, Wiccan, Druid, and Heathen are all options."

They have a photograph of pagans standing around Stonehenge, and performing their pagan rituals garbed in pagan costumes.