Mary is all powerful!
- Thread starter theefaith
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That is a resurrected female person in Glory. I think the only person it could be is Mary. Maybe you can prove that wrong. Knowing the symbols that are biblical and the symbolic language of myth would be helpful.
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
Okay blessed among women . Just dont pray to her or the saints or angles ,cause that is blasphemous .
Well that would divide the Church to stop communicating with our victorious members. They are waiting for the resurrection to receive their bodies for eternity.
Sincerely @amigo de christo, the boundary between life and death isn't what it was before Jesus descended there.
You mistake the relationship between the Church on earth and the Church in heaven for communication with the dead.
The Body of Christ isn't divided or subject to death .
Sincerely @amigo de christo, the boundary between life and death isn't what it was before Jesus descended there.
You mistake the relationship between the Church on earth and the Church in heaven for communication with the dead.
The Body of Christ isn't divided or subject to death .
Bob Carabbio
Well-Known Member
Jim B
Well-Known Member
And the birth of our Saviour is one that Mary, herself, with her freewill, said "YES", and delivered salvation for all mankind. Lk 1:38
Biblical Mary, mother of God, ever Virgin, sinless, mother of our salvation!
Mother of God Lk 1:43
Immaculate conception (sinless) gen 3:15 enmity or total war none of satans works are found in Mary!
Also Lk 1:28 full of grace lk 1:49 great things plural (immaculate conception of Mary and the miraculous conception of Jesus) Rev12:1 woman clothed with the sun. Immaculate purity
Lk 1:30 found favor with God (the salvation lost by Adam) mother of our salvation Lk 2:30 and cos she consented to our salvation! Lk 1:38
Perpetual Virgin Isa 7:14 matt 1:21
Lk 1:31-34
Spiritual Mother Jn 19:26-27 rev 12:17
Mother of the creator is mother of all creation!
Mother of the Redeemer is the mother of all the redeemed!
Mother of our Savior is the mother of all those who obtain salvation!
Lk 1:30
All generations call me blessed! Lk 1:
Thanksgiving in praise of Mary for bearing our savior! Matt 1:23 And finding our salvation! Lk 1:30
Praise honor veneration and devotion are not worship and redound to the Glory of God who created Mary immaculate Lk 1:49 and Christ source of all grace! Jn 1:16-17
The Holy Spirit is “uncreated Advocate” and Mary is “created Advocate.” Advocacy for the Church is their common cause. Since Mary is full of grace and full of the Holy Spirit, her will, prayers, and advocacy mirror that of the Holy Spirit. (This does not make Her God)
Mary is depicted as the spouse of the Holy Spirit therefore the child to be born will be called holy, the Son of God.” Lk 1:35
This is nuptial language hearkening back to Ruth 3:8, where Ruth said to Boaz “spread your skirt over me” when she revealed to him his duty to marry her according to the law of Deuteronomy 25. When Mary became pregnant, Joseph would have been required to divorce her because she would then belong to another (see Dt 24:1-4; Jer 3:1). But when Joseph found out that “the other” was the Holy Spirit, the idea of his having conjugal relations with Mary was not a consideration.
Let us take our helper (advocate) and intercessor the Virgin Mary, Mother of God, so that she, who from the moment of her conception overcame Satan may show her power over these evil sects, in which is revived the contumacious spirit of the demon, together with his unsubdued perfidy and deceit. Let us beseech Michael, the prince of the heavenly angels, who drove out the infernal foe; and Joseph, the spouse of the most holy Virgin, and heavenly patron of the Catholic Church; and the great Apostles, Peter and Paul, the fathers and victorious champions of the Christian faith. By their patronage, and by perseverance in united prayer, we hope that God will mercifully and opportunely succor the human race, which is encompassed by so many dangers.
Gen 3:15 I will put enmities between thee and the woman, and thy seed and her seed: she shall crush thy head, and thou shalt lie in wait for her heel.
Lk 1: 35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
Lk 1:28 Hail Mary, full of grace!
It only by the power of the Holy Spirit thru the immaculate purity of Mary that the virgin-mother brings forth the Holy son of God!
Lk 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
A new song!
Good enough for Angels!
Good enough for the Bible!
Good enough for me!
Hail Mary! Full of grace, the Lord is with thee, blessed art thou among women,
Lk 1:28 blessed is the fruit of thy womb, (Jesus) Lk 1:42 Holy Mary, mother of God, Lk 1:43 pray for us sinners, now,
rev 5:8 and at the hour of our death, Matt 24:13 amen!
It is really God who greeting Mary with the “Hail Mary”!
Lk 1:26 & Lk 1:45
Blessed art thou among all women! Lk 1:28 & Lk 1:45 & Lk 1:48
All generations shall call me blessed!
A song of thanksgiving for bringing our salvation!
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The above was posted by theefaith but I couldn't find the post. Probably put on ignore. I saw it in the e-mail with Bob Carabbio's post.
I hesitate to repeat it because it is the ultimate example of unScriptural babble I have ever read.
I am completely amazed the RCCs, who call themselves Christians, can add so much extraneous and false nonsense to Scripture!
What is this worship of Mary, a teenager who was chosen to give birth to Jesus and is a minor figure in the Bible, all about. What need do RCC's have to make Mary into someone/something she is not and never was?
She gave birth to Jesus, the firstborn of his siblings. Therefore, she was not a perpetual virgin. (The word in Isaiah 7:14 can also be translated as "young woman".)
When she and Jesus' brothers tried to talk with him, He refused to talk with them and claimed that others were His mother and brothers.
There is no indication anywhere in Scripture that Mary was sinless. None. There was one sinless person: Jesus.
Calling her the mother of our salvation is absurd. That also is not found in Scripture.
Genesis 3:13-15, "Then the Lord God said to the woman, “What is this you have done?”
The woman said, “The serpent deceived me, and I ate.”
So the Lord God said to the serpent, “Because you have done this,
“Cursed are you above all livestock
and all wild animals!
You will crawl on your belly
and you will eat dust
all the days of your life.
And I will put enmity
between you and the woman,
and between your offspring and hers;
he will crush your head,
and you will strike his heel.”
In verse 13 "the woman" is clearly Eve; it is not Mary (unless one believes that Mary was in the garden of Eden, which she wasn't)
Mary, like every other person except Jesus, was born in sin.
"Mother of the creator is mother of all creation!" is nonsense. She was the mother of Jesus and His siblings, not all creation.
"Mother of the Redeemer is the mother of all the redeemed!" is likewise unScriptural nonsense.
"Mother of our Savior is the mother of all those who obtain salvation!" is likewise unScriptural nonsense.
The Holy Spirit is “uncreated Advocate” and Mary is “created Advocate.” is also unScriptural.
"Mary is depicted as the spouse of the Holy Spirit" is bizarre. Where in the Bible does it say this? Supernatural impregnation is not marriage.
Praying to Mary is ridiculous. Why pray to a dead woman? Or to any "saint" (also a dead person). Prayer is meant to be for God. Jesus, God's son (and Mary's offspring) said to pray to "our Father, who is in heaven". Jesus never said to pray to his mother or any other dead person.
Catholics have so distorted the truths of the Bible that I fear for their souls. They have created one unScriptural myth after another to the xtant that the fundamental truths of Christianity have been lost.
Finally, they persist in depicting Jesus as a dead European who is still on the cross! It is a disgusting visual denial of His resurrection!
Biblical Mary, mother of God, ever Virgin, sinless, mother of our salvation!
Mother of God Lk 1:43
Immaculate conception (sinless) gen 3:15 enmity or total war none of satans works are found in Mary!
Also Lk 1:28 full of grace lk 1:49 great things plural (immaculate conception of Mary and the miraculous conception of Jesus) Rev12:1 woman clothed with the sun. Immaculate purity
Lk 1:30 found favor with God (the salvation lost by Adam) mother of our salvation Lk 2:30 and cos she consented to our salvation! Lk 1:38
Perpetual Virgin Isa 7:14 matt 1:21
Lk 1:31-34
Spiritual Mother Jn 19:26-27 rev 12:17
Mother of the creator is mother of all creation!
Mother of the Redeemer is the mother of all the redeemed!
Mother of our Savior is the mother of all those who obtain salvation!
Lk 1:30
All generations call me blessed! Lk 1:
Thanksgiving in praise of Mary for bearing our savior! Matt 1:23 And finding our salvation! Lk 1:30
Praise honor veneration and devotion are not worship and redound to the Glory of God who created Mary immaculate Lk 1:49 and Christ source of all grace! Jn 1:16-17
The Holy Spirit is “uncreated Advocate” and Mary is “created Advocate.” Advocacy for the Church is their common cause. Since Mary is full of grace and full of the Holy Spirit, her will, prayers, and advocacy mirror that of the Holy Spirit. (This does not make Her God)
Mary is depicted as the spouse of the Holy Spirit therefore the child to be born will be called holy, the Son of God.” Lk 1:35
This is nuptial language hearkening back to Ruth 3:8, where Ruth said to Boaz “spread your skirt over me” when she revealed to him his duty to marry her according to the law of Deuteronomy 25. When Mary became pregnant, Joseph would have been required to divorce her because she would then belong to another (see Dt 24:1-4; Jer 3:1). But when Joseph found out that “the other” was the Holy Spirit, the idea of his having conjugal relations with Mary was not a consideration.
Let us take our helper (advocate) and intercessor the Virgin Mary, Mother of God, so that she, who from the moment of her conception overcame Satan may show her power over these evil sects, in which is revived the contumacious spirit of the demon, together with his unsubdued perfidy and deceit. Let us beseech Michael, the prince of the heavenly angels, who drove out the infernal foe; and Joseph, the spouse of the most holy Virgin, and heavenly patron of the Catholic Church; and the great Apostles, Peter and Paul, the fathers and victorious champions of the Christian faith. By their patronage, and by perseverance in united prayer, we hope that God will mercifully and opportunely succor the human race, which is encompassed by so many dangers.
Gen 3:15 I will put enmities between thee and the woman, and thy seed and her seed: she shall crush thy head, and thou shalt lie in wait for her heel.
Lk 1: 35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
Lk 1:28 Hail Mary, full of grace!
It only by the power of the Holy Spirit thru the immaculate purity of Mary that the virgin-mother brings forth the Holy son of God!
Lk 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
A new song!
Good enough for Angels!
Good enough for the Bible!
Good enough for me!
Hail Mary! Full of grace, the Lord is with thee, blessed art thou among women,
Lk 1:28 blessed is the fruit of thy womb, (Jesus) Lk 1:42 Holy Mary, mother of God, Lk 1:43 pray for us sinners, now,
rev 5:8 and at the hour of our death, Matt 24:13 amen!
It is really God who greeting Mary with the “Hail Mary”!
Lk 1:26 & Lk 1:45
Blessed art thou among all women! Lk 1:28 & Lk 1:45 & Lk 1:48
All generations shall call me blessed!
A song of thanksgiving for bringing our salvation!
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The above was posted by theefaith but I couldn't find the post. Probably put on ignore. I saw it in the e-mail with Bob Carabbio's post.
I hesitate to repeat it because it is the ultimate example of unScriptural babble I have ever read.
I am completely amazed the RCCs, who call themselves Christians, can add so much extraneous and false nonsense to Scripture!
What is this worship of Mary, a teenager who was chosen to give birth to Jesus and is a minor figure in the Bible, all about. What need do RCC's have to make Mary into someone/something she is not and never was?
She gave birth to Jesus, the firstborn of his siblings. Therefore, she was not a perpetual virgin. (The word in Isaiah 7:14 can also be translated as "young woman".)
When she and Jesus' brothers tried to talk with him, He refused to talk with them and claimed that others were His mother and brothers.
There is no indication anywhere in Scripture that Mary was sinless. None. There was one sinless person: Jesus.
Calling her the mother of our salvation is absurd. That also is not found in Scripture.
Genesis 3:13-15, "Then the Lord God said to the woman, “What is this you have done?”
The woman said, “The serpent deceived me, and I ate.”
So the Lord God said to the serpent, “Because you have done this,
“Cursed are you above all livestock
and all wild animals!
You will crawl on your belly
and you will eat dust
all the days of your life.
And I will put enmity
between you and the woman,
and between your offspring and hers;
he will crush your head,
and you will strike his heel.”
In verse 13 "the woman" is clearly Eve; it is not Mary (unless one believes that Mary was in the garden of Eden, which she wasn't)
Mary, like every other person except Jesus, was born in sin.
"Mother of the creator is mother of all creation!" is nonsense. She was the mother of Jesus and His siblings, not all creation.
"Mother of the Redeemer is the mother of all the redeemed!" is likewise unScriptural nonsense.
"Mother of our Savior is the mother of all those who obtain salvation!" is likewise unScriptural nonsense.
The Holy Spirit is “uncreated Advocate” and Mary is “created Advocate.” is also unScriptural.
"Mary is depicted as the spouse of the Holy Spirit" is bizarre. Where in the Bible does it say this? Supernatural impregnation is not marriage.
Praying to Mary is ridiculous. Why pray to a dead woman? Or to any "saint" (also a dead person). Prayer is meant to be for God. Jesus, God's son (and Mary's offspring) said to pray to "our Father, who is in heaven". Jesus never said to pray to his mother or any other dead person.
Catholics have so distorted the truths of the Bible that I fear for their souls. They have created one unScriptural myth after another to the xtant that the fundamental truths of Christianity have been lost.
Finally, they persist in depicting Jesus as a dead European who is still on the cross! It is a disgusting visual denial of His resurrection!
Testimony of the successors of the apostles
Intercession of the Saints
HERMAS
“[The Shepherd said:] ‘But those who are weak and slothful in prayer, hesitate to ask anything from the Lord; but the Lord is full of compassion, and gives without fail to all who ask him. But you, [Hermas,] having been strengthened by the holy angel [you saw], and having obtained from him such intercession, and not being slothful, why do not you ask of the Lord understanding, and receive it from him?’” (The Shepherd 3:5:4 [A.D. 80]).
CLEMENT OF ALEXANDRIA
“In this way is he [the true Christian] always pure for prayer. He also prays in the society of angels, as being already of angelic rank, and he is never out of their holy keeping; and though he pray alone, he has the choir of the saints standing with him [in prayer]” (Miscellanies 7:12 [A.D. 208]).
ORIGEN
“But not the high priest [Christ] alone prays for those who pray sincerely, but also the angels . . . as also the souls of the saints who have already fallen asleep” (Prayer 11 [A.D. 233]).
CYPRIAN OF CARTHAGE
“Let us remember one another in concord and unanimity. Let us on both sides [of death] always pray for one another. Let us relieve burdens and afflictions by mutual love, that if one of us, by the swiftness of divine condescension, shall go hence first, our love may continue in the presence of the Lord, and our prayers for our brethren and sisters not cease in the presence of the Father’s mercy” (Letters 56[60]:5 [A.D. 253]).
ANONYMOUS
“Atticus, sleep in peace, secure in your safety, and pray anxiously for our sins” (funerary inscription near St. Sabina’s in Rome [A.D. 300]).
“Pray for your parents, Matronata Matrona. She lived one year, fifty-two days” (ibid.).
“Mother of God, [listen to] my petitions; do not disregard us in adversity, but rescue us from danger” (Rylands Papyrus 3 [A.D. 350]).
METHODIUS
“Hail to you for ever, Virgin Mother of God, our unceasing joy, for to you do I turn again. You are the beginning of our feast; you are its middle and end; the pearl of great price that belongs to the kingdom; the fat of every victim, the living altar of the Bread of Life [Jesus]. Hail, you treasure of the love of God. Hail, you fount of the Son’s love for man. . . . You gleamed, sweet gift-bestowing Mother, with the light of the sun; you gleamed with the insupportable fires of a most fervent charity, bringing forth in the end that which was conceived of you . . . making manifest the mystery hidden and unspeakable, the invisible Son of the Father—the Prince of Peace, who in a marvelous manner showed himself as less than all littleness” (Oration on Simeon and Anna 14 [A.D. 305]).
“Therefore, we pray [ask] you, the most excellent among women, who glories in the confidence of your maternal honors, that you would unceasingly keep us in remembrance. O holy Mother of God, remember us, I say, who make our boast in you, and who in august hymns celebrate the memory, which will ever live, and never fade away” (ibid.).
“And you also, O honored and venerable Simeon, you earliest host of our holy religion, and teacher of the resurrection of the faithful, do be our patron and advocate with that Savior God, whom you were deemed worthy to receive into your arms. We, together with you, sing our praises to Christ, who has the power of life and death, saying, ‘You are the true Light, proceeding from the true Light; the true God, begotten of the true God’” (ibid.).
CYRIL OF JERUSALEM
“Then [during the Eucharistic prayer] we make mention also of those who have already fallen asleep: first, the patriarchs, prophets, apostles, and martyrs, that through their prayers and supplications God would receive our petition . . . ” (Catechetical Lectures 23:9 [A.D. 350]).
HILARY OF POITIERS
“To those who wish to stand [in God’s grace], neither the guardianship of saints nor the defenses of angels are wanting” (Commentary on the Psalms 124:5:6 [A.D. 365]).
EPHRAIM THE SYRIAN
“You victorious martyrs who endured torments gladly for the sake of the God and Savior, you who have boldness of speech toward the Lord himself, you saints, intercede for us who are timid and sinful men, full of sloth, that the grace of Christ may come upon us, and enlighten the hearts of all of us so that we may love him” (Commentary on Mark [A.D. 370]).
“Remember me, you heirs of God, you brethren of Christ; supplicate the Savior earnestly for me, that I may be freed through Christ from him that fights against me day by day” (The Fear at the End of Life [A.D. 370]).
THE LITURGY OF ST. BASIL
“By the command of your only-begotten Son we communicate with the memory of your saints . . . by whose prayers and supplications have mercy upon us all, and deliver us for the sake of your holy name” (Liturgy of St. Basil [A.D. 373]).
PECTORIUS
“Aschandius, my father, dearly beloved of my heart, with my sweet mother and my brethren, remember your Pectorius in the peace of the Fish [Christ]” (Epitaph of Pectorius [A.D. 375]).
GREGORY OF NAZIANZ
“May you [Cyprian] look down from above propitiously upon us, and guide our word and life; and shepherd this sacred flock . . . gladden the Holy Trinity, before which you stand” (Orations 17[24] [A.D. 380]).
“Yes, I am well assured that [my father’s] intercession is of more avail now than was his instruction in former days, since he is closer to God, now that he has shaken off his bodily fetters, and freed his mind from the clay that obscured it, and holds conversation naked with the nakedness of the prime and purest mind . . . ” (ibid., 18:4).
GREGORY OF NYSSA
“[Ephraim], you who are standing at the divine altar [in heaven] . . . bear us all in remembrance, petitioning for us the remission of sins, and the fruition of an everlasting kingdom” (Sermon on Ephraim the Syrian [A.D. 380]).
JOHN CHRYSOSTOM
“He that wears the purple [i.e., a royal man] . . . stands begging of the saints to be his patrons with God, and he that wears a diadem begs the tentmaker [Paul] and the fisherman [Peter] as patrons, even though they be dead” (Homilies on Second Corinthians 26 [A.D. 392]).
“When you perceive that God is chastening you, fly not to his enemies . . . but to his friends, the martyrs, the saints, and those who were pleasing to him, and who have great power [in God]” (Orations 8:6 [A.D. 396]).
AMBROSE OF MILAN
“May Peter, who wept so efficaciously for himself, weep for us and turn towards us Christ’s benign countenance” (The Six Days Work 5:25:90 [A.D. 393]).
JEROME
“You say in your book that while we live we are able to pray for each other, but afterwards when we have died, the prayer of no person for another can be heard. . . . But if the apostles and martyrs while still in the body can pray for others, at a time when they ought still be solicitous about themselves, how much more will they do so after their crowns, victories, and triumphs?” (Against Vigilantius 6 [A.D. 406]).
AUGUSTINE
“A Christian people celebrates together in religious solemnity the memorials of the martyrs, both to encourage their being imitated and so that it can share in their merits and be aided by their prayers” (Against Faustus the Manichean [A.D. 400]).
“There is an ecclesiastical discipline, as the faithful know, when the names of the martyrs are read aloud in that place at the altar of God, where prayer is not offered for them. Prayer, however, is offered for the dead who are remembered. For it is wrong to pray for a martyr, to whose prayers we ought ourselves be commended” (Sermons 159:1 [A.D. 411]).
“At the Lord’s table we do not commemorate martyrs in the same way that we do others who rest in peace so as to pray for them, but rather that they may pray for us that we may follow in their footsteps” (Homilies on John 84 [A.D. 416]).
“Neither are the souls of the pious dead separated from the Church which even now is the kingdom of Christ. Otherwise there would be no remembrance of them at the altar of God in the communication of the Body of Christ” (The City of God 20:9:2 [A.D. 419]).
God initiated each covenant and the mediator always remains on earth mediating the covenant except for Christ who made Peter His personal representative and vicar! (Matt 16:18)
Adam
(Marriage covenant)
Noah
(Family covenant)
Abraham
(Tribal covenant)
Moses:
(National covenant)
Jesus Christ:
(Universal covenant)
New and eternal covenant founded by Jesus Christ! Matt 16:18
Universal (Catholic)
World universal
Lk 2:10 And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people. ( catholic universal) All men!
Lk 2:31 prepared before the face of all (catholic) people. All men!
Jn 1:29 lamb of God who takes way the sins of the world. All men!
Jn 3:16 for God so loved the world
1 Jn 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world. All men!
Lk 2: 10 And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people. All men!
11 For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord. (All people universal) All men!
1 Tim 2:5 one mediator
Jn 10:16 One new covenant church
Kingdom
Dan 2:44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.
the holy Catholic Church
Lk 1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.
Matthew 5:14
Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.
Lk 22:29 And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;
30 That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
31 And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat: (plural Peter and his successors)
32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.
Jesus Christ is king!
We must submit and obey the king of kings!
And His authorized ministers that He Himself appointed!
Matt 16:18-19 & 28:28 eph 2:20 Jn 20:21-23
Lk 10:16
He who hears you hears me...
John 13:20
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.
Adam
(Marriage covenant)
Noah
(Family covenant)
Abraham
(Tribal covenant)
Moses:
(National covenant)
Jesus Christ:
(Universal covenant)
New and eternal covenant founded by Jesus Christ! Matt 16:18
Universal (Catholic)
World universal
Lk 2:10 And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people. ( catholic universal) All men!
Lk 2:31 prepared before the face of all (catholic) people. All men!
Jn 1:29 lamb of God who takes way the sins of the world. All men!
Jn 3:16 for God so loved the world
1 Jn 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world. All men!
Lk 2: 10 And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people. All men!
11 For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord. (All people universal) All men!
1 Tim 2:5 one mediator
Jn 10:16 One new covenant church
Kingdom
Dan 2:44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.
the holy Catholic Church
Lk 1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.
Matthew 5:14
Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.
Lk 22:29 And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;
30 That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
31 And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat: (plural Peter and his successors)
32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.
Jesus Christ is king!
We must submit and obey the king of kings!
And His authorized ministers that He Himself appointed!
Matt 16:18-19 & 28:28 eph 2:20 Jn 20:21-23
Lk 10:16
He who hears you hears me...
John 13:20
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.
Jim B
Well-Known Member
None of these people are Biblical authors, so they are just people's opinions. Sola scriptura!
Jim B
Well-Known Member
I have never seen Adam, Noah, Abraham, Moses, or Peter walking around anywhere. So you have made another false statement when you wrote "God initiated each covenant and the mediator always remains on earth mediating the covenant except for Christ who made Peter His personal representative and vicar". Also, Peter, the man who denied Christ three times, was the apostle to the Jews, and a hypocrite (see below), was never made Christ's "personal representative and vicar"
Galatians 2:14, "When I saw that they were not acting in line with the truth of the gospel, I said to Cephas [Peter] in front of them all, “You are a Jew, yet you live like a Gentile and not like a Jew. How is it, then, that you force Gentiles to follow Jewish customs?"
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
The exact response i expected . As for me and the lambs we will learn our bibles well .
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
A lot of words of no effect my friend . Should have stuck with the scriptures .
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
Divide the church . Yall have been seriously deluded by the CC my friend .
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
Divide the church . God does not approve of us praying to those who have already departed from the earth .
Samuel could avouch for that my friend .
We dont pray to one another nor to anyone else , but GOD .
To do so is blasphemy . Learn this now , cause on the day of judgment
it will be too late .
Jim B
Well-Known Member
You wrote that "We must submit and obey the king of kings!
And His authorized ministers that He Himself appointed!
Matt 16:18-19 & 28:28 eph 2:20 Jn 20:21-23"
Except all "His authorized ministers" mentioned in those verses are dead.
You got one thing right in all your posts...
We must obey the King of Kings and Lord of Lords, Jesus Christ.
Congratulations on agreeing with Scripture -- once!
Sola Scriptura.
Paul Christensen
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The issue is that RC theology is based more on what successive popes have decreed as doctrine over and above the Bible. This is the same as the "new revelation" that some Charismatics are teaching that is also not found in the Bible, but is extra-Biblical revelation that they say the Holy Spirit has revealed to them.
As I said, read more carefully:
Your question was basically as follows:
"Is there proof in the Bible that Mary's biological son was Jesus only"
An Answer is as follows:
Before we begin, please pray, and open your Bible.
We can know that Jesus was the ‘firstborn’ of Mary, as per St. Mattew 1:25; St. Luke 2:7.h
Now, because of the term, ‘firstborn’, many incorrectly teach that it automatically implies, further children (of Mary, by Joseph), but this is not necessarily the case, as the word ‘firstborn’ has a range of meaning, from simply the original child of inheritance, and also the first to be born among others later to come (1 Samuel 8:2; 1 Chronicles 3:1,15, 8:1,39, 26:2,4, &c.), and even has a greater meaning, than simply ‘first child to be born’, but is used to describe even those who are not a first child, but that which is the child through whom the inheritance or blessing or rulership comes:
Consider that Numbers 3:42,43, 18:15, 33:4; Judges 11:34; or Nehemiah 10:36; Psalms 78:51, 105:36, 135:8; or Luke 1:7-80, 9:28, &c. In some of those cases there was only a single child, and yet, would be the “firstborn”. Even the ‘only’ children in those cases are ‘firstborn’, even if they never had another child after. There is no indication that all the Israelites, or all the Egyptians had other child after their ‘firstborn’, though many would have. In the cases of John the Baptist, Jesus and the daughter of Jephthae, and the son of the man who came to Jesus, &c. they are only children, yet would be considered ‘firstborn’.
Genesis 10:15, 19:31,33,34,37, 22:21, 25:13,25, 27:19,32, 29:26, 35:23, 36:15, 38:6,7,28, 41:51, 43:33, 46:8, 48:14,18, 49:3; Exodus 4:23, 6:14, 11:5, 12:12,29, 13:2,13,15, 22:29, 34:20; Numbers 3:2,12,13,40,41,42,43,45,46,50, 8:16,17, 18:15, 33:4; Deuteronomy 21:15,16,17, 25:6; Joshua 6:26, 17:1; Judges 8:20; 1 Samuel 8:2, 14:49, 17:13; 2 Samuel 3:2; 1 Kings 16:34; 1 Chronicles 1:13,29, 2:3,13,25,27,42,50, 3:1,15, 4:4, 5:1,3, 6:28, 8:1,30,39, 9:5,31,36, 26:2,4; 2 Chronicles 21:3; Nehemiah 10:36; Psalms 78:51, 105:36, 135:8, 136:10; Micah 6:7; Matthew 1:25; Luke 2:7; Hebrews 11:28.
Continuing with the ‘firstborn’, in the greater sense, see:
Isaac over Ishmael: Genesis 22:2,12,16.
Ephraim was made firstborn, over Manasseh: Genesis 41:50-52, 48:16-20; Jeremiah 31:9.
Joseph over Reuben: Genesis 49:3; 1 Chronicles 5:1.
Jacob/Israel over Esau: Exodus 4:22; Genesis 25:25-26; Hosea 11:1; Matthew 2:13-15.
Levites over the others: Numbers 3:41-45, 8:14-18.
David over others: Psalms 89:20,27; 1 Samuel 16:10-11. David is a type of Christ (Luke 24:27; John 5:39).
Simri, over others: 1 Chronicles 26:10.
Jesus over all: Colossians 1:15-18; see also 2 Corinthians 1:20, and Romans 9:5; Colossians 1:26, 2:10; Ephesians 1:21-23, 3:9, 4:15; Hebrews 7:26; John 1:3.
However, Jesus is also the ‘firstborn’ (spiritually; Luke 1:35) of the ‘woman’, that ‘church in the wilderness (Acts 7:38), among many 'brethren": Isaiah 9:6; Luke 2:11; Hebrews 2:10-12; Revelation 12:1-5,13.
and there are other uses: Job 18:12-13; Isaiah 14:30.
Scripture records explicitly that:
“Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.” Isaiah 7:14
“Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.” Matthew 1:18
“Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.” Matthew 1:23
“And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS.” Matthew 1:25
“To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin's name was Mary.” Luke 1:27
“And she brought forth her firstborn son, and wrapped him in swaddling clothes, and laid him in a manger; because there was no room for them in the inn.” Luke 2:7
This means that Mary had no children before Jesus, since He is called her “firstborn son” and she was a “virgin”, thus we can immediately eliminate any others before that time for her.
What then of afterwards, since it is written that Joseph “knew her not till she had brought forth” Jesus?, which would help indicate that their marriage was eventually consummated after her purification [Luke 2:22], as is the rightful God-gifted/given position of the married, Husband and Wife, before God [Genesis 2:24; Proverbs 5:18, 18:22; Matthew 1:25, 19:5; Mark 10:7; Ephesians 5:31; Hebrews 13:4, etc], Joseph fulfilling and “perform[ing] the duty of an husband” [see and compare Exodus 21:10; Deuteronomy 25:5,7, but in the case of an original husband to a new wife, etc], which includes intimacy of marital relations, and not remaining away from her forever, since that would lead to greater temptation for them both [1 Corinthians 7:5]. Though such marital relations are indeed indicated in the Scripture between Joseph and Mary [let us tread carefully in such areas, for they are personal, and generally private], this does not necessarily lead to further children, as is found the case with many a couple in Scripture, and as it is written, that those things are written about Jesus [John 5:39], being types in their lives pointing to Him and His life, etc.
Some, will of course, point to the term “firstborn”, and say that this means that there had to have been others afterwards born of Mary, being 'second-born' etc, yet the word itself, does not inherently dictate this, and is forced into it, by others which have an apriori, or preconceived notion to defend. The word simply means, “firstborn”, whether that child was the only one, or whether the first in a line/series of others/many, yet it is always the context which would indicate any further application or definition. Therefore, we need to consider some context.
Contextually, we do see that the Bible mentions that Jesus had “brothers” [named] and “sisters” [unnamed]:
“Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee.” Matthew 12:47
“Is not this the carpenter's son? is not his mother called Mary? and his brethren, James, and Joses, and Simon, and Judas?” Matthew 13:55
“Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon? and are not his sisters here with us? And they were offended at him.” Mark 6:3
etc.
Questions we can then ask of the Scripture, are:
[A] Who then are these “brothers” and “sisters” [at least two, plural]?
Are they of Mary after Jesus was born?
[II] Are are they of Joseph to another previous wife, before Mary was married to Joseph and before Jesus was born?
[III] Or could these be “cousins”, but simply called “brothers” and “sisters”?
They could not be “cousins”, since the Bible does not designate in such a way, but when a “cousin” or another family relative [like “mother in law”, etc] is made mention of, it is plainly stated:
“And, behold, thy cousin Elisabeth, she hath also conceived a son in her old age: and this is the sixth month with her, who was called barren.” Luke 1:36
“And her neighbours and her cousins heard how the Lord had shewed great mercy upon her; and they rejoiced with her.” Luke 1:58
“For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.” Matthew 10:35
“The father shall be divided against the son, and the son against the father; the mother against the daughter, and the daughter against the mother; the mother in law against her daughter in law, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.” Luke 12:53
“And led him away to Annas first; for he was father in law to Caiaphas, which was the high priest that same year.” John 18:13
etc.
Elizabeth, Mary's “cousin”, was never called Mary's “sister” in Scripture. The same applies to these “brothers” and “sisters” of Jesus, of their father Joseph. Not once in Scripture are they called “cousins” of Jesus. Thus, we can eliminate that option.
Scripture gives us clues, when we are so inclined to ask of God, asking for the Holy Spirit to teach us, and to pray for guidance in these things, that will be connected to show us the way to the answer.
The Scripture does not make any mention of Mary siring any other children after Jesus, or other than Jesus. This would sort of be an argument from silence, but not really as there are minute indications in Scriptures, which are helpful none-the-less, as we shall see further which demonstrates that conclusion.
Ok, now, we can confirm that Mary was indeed a 'virgin' and had no children before Jesus by th following texts: Isaiah 7:14; Matthew 1:18,23,25; Luke 1:27, 2:7, which helps to confirm the meaning 'firstborn' in reference to Jesus.
These texts are clear that Mary had no children before Jesus, for she was "virgin".
Nowhere, in scripture, is it recorded that Mary had a "second", "third" child and so on. Many incorrectly read those things into the text, simply based on the words "firstborn" and "brother(s)" and "sisters" of Jesus. However, the text never gives those children the designation of being the children of Mary, even once. They are called "brother(s)" and "sisters" of Jesus, never the sons and daughters of Mary. Thus they can only be the 'brothers' and 'sisters' of Jesus by Mary's marriage to Joseph. They are all older (humanly speaking) than Jesus, as we shall see.
Notice, "thy brethren", as in Matthew 12:47 and "his brethren", as in Matthew 13:55 and see also Mark 6:3.
These are not "cousins", since the Holy Scriptures, know how to designate relatives, see:
"daughter in law" (in reference to Sarai/Sarah), Genesis 11:31.
"son in law" (in reference to Lot's daughter's husbands), Genesis 19:12.
"daughter in law" (in reference to Tamar), Genesis 38:11.
"daughter in law" (the son's wife), Leviticus 18:15.
"father in law" (in reference to Moses' wifes' father), Numbers 10:29.
... &c. ...(yet a "son in law" can also be considered a "son" (as David to Saul through his wife, Michal, 1 Samuel 18:18,21, 26:17) and so also a "daughter in law" be a "daughter" (a in the case of Ruth and Naomi, Ruth 1:22, 2:2,8,20,22, 3:1,16,18, 4:15 ), and also as a term used of the elder to a younger, Ruth 3:10,11.)
"thy cousin Elizabeth" (in reference to Mary), Luke 1:36.
"her neighbours and cousins" (in reference to Mary), Luke 1:58.
"daughter in law, ... mother in law" (in general), Mathew 10:35; Luke 12:53.
"father in law" (to Caiphas), John 18:13.
Mary is never called the 'sister' of Elizabeth.
Now let's take a look at some other details.
One of those, is when we come to the event of the Cross itself in the Gospel accounts, we see that Jesus entrusts Mary into the hands of John the Apostle, and not to any previous family members who were born of Joseph previously, which would have been their duty to do, in taking care of a widower like Mary, if they were her actual blood children.
“When Jesus therefore saw his mother, and the disciple standing by, whom he loved, he saith unto his mother, Woman, behold thy son!” John 19:26
“Then saith he to the disciple, Behold thy mother! And from that hour that disciple took her unto his own home.” John 19:27
Another, is when Jesus previously had stated, that he had no inheritance on this earth to speak of, and therefore was not the eldest, by any means, but like King David before Him, was the youngest, even though Mary's “firstborn”, and would have received only from His father a portion which remained after being divided among the “sons” of Joseph, and since his earthly 'father' [not by blood/flesh, but by care/commission from Heaven] was deceased, His inheritance could only come from His Heavenly Father.
“And Jesus saith unto him, The foxes have holes, and the birds of the air have nests; but the Son of man hath not where to lay his head.” Matthew 8:20
“And Jesus said unto him, Foxes have holes, and birds of the air have nests; but the Son of man hath not where to lay his head.” Luke 9:58
The “brothers” of Jesus, being older, from Joseph, at a point in the Gospel record, convince Mary that Jesus was possessed of devils, for they did not follow Jesus, nor believe on Him, but rather they had listened to and believed the Pharisees, which were accusing Him of being used of Satan to cast out Satan, and since they were older, they were using their authority to convince Mary to get Jesus to cease what He had been sent to do:
“But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, This fellow doth not cast out devils, but by Beelzebub the prince of the devils.” Matthew 12:24
“While he yet talked to the people, behold, his mother and his brethren stood without, desiring to speak with him.” Matthew 12:46
“Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee. “ Matthew 12:47
“And the multitude cometh together again, so that they could not so much as eat bread.” Mark 3:20
“And when his friends heard of it, they went out to lay hold on him: for they said, He is beside himself.” Mark 3:21
“And the scribes which came down from Jerusalem said, He hath Beelzebub, and by the prince of the devils casteth he out devils.” Mark 3:22
“Because they said, He hath an unclean spirit.” Mark 3:30
“There came then his brethren and his mother, and, standing without, sent unto him, calling him.” Mark 3:31
“And the multitude sat about him, and they said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren without seek for thee.” Mark 3:32
“Then came to him his mother and his brethren, and could not come at him for the press.” Luke 8:19
“And it was told him by certain which said, Thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to see thee.” Luke 8:20
At another time, the “brothers” spoke to Jesus in tones of authority, something only which elders would do to their youngers, declaring His path before Him, apart from The Father's instruction:
“His brethren therefore said unto him, Depart hence, and go into Judaea, that thy disciples also may see the works that thou doest.” John 7:3
All of this, would point to God, lovingly, preserving from Mary and us, from the utter and total confusion it would have been, for the people of that day and of now, in considering any further children of Mary, as being also God, or Messiah, or Saviour, or etc, or thinking that some flesh/blood line was more pure or holy than another, or of entrusting the future of the religion of Christianity to a blood line of Mary, instead of the spiritual line of Christ. Think, briefly, for a moment, of how that would have been, if Mary had other children, or that were around, or still existed, once Christ ascended. Would they have looked Heavenward, or to flesh and blood, knowing the heart of men? The Wisdom of God is indeed Wise.
A lesson we can learn, from these things, is that we ought to remain focused upon Christ Jesus, rather than upon trivial things, though truthful they may be, and to be followers of Christ, as James, a brother of Christ, came to be [James 1:1]. Satan will always attempt to cause unnecessary and harmful division amongst the people of God, to get them to sin, to lose their focus of mission from Christ Jesus, etc.
If others, choose not to accept any of these things [for people are free to choose], and reject, and/or explain away the Scriptural accounts, or the Testimony of Jesus, which reveal the “proof” of them, -- have compassion upon them, and treat them kindly as brother or sister, not desiring to stir up strife over it, but praying for them and yourself, and us, that we may finally, and all, be of the same mind, which mind is in Christ Jesus.
The powerful lesson is, that Christ is no respecter of persons [Acts 10:34], neither of blood/flesh [Galatians 3:28; Colossians 3:11], but if we accept Him, then we are truly His real “brothers” and “sisters” [Matthew 12:49-50; Mark 3:34-35; Luke 8:21]. He can bring us from Enmity to Him, into Enmity with Sin! Amen!
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