Mary, Queen of Heaven

[Marymog]

Um no, it says plainly that Jesus' mother and his brothers came to see him. To believe they weren't her children is to add to scripture. The plain reading is that she had other children.

You can only imply that they are her children since no where in Scripture does it say that Mary had other children.

I am using YOUR criteria to come to my conclusion.....

You are VIOLATING your criteria to come to your conclusion....

What is going on here?

 

[Marymog]

How can I truly love someone I've never met? Jesus I have met. There's no scripture that tells me I can or should have a relationship with Jesus' mother.
I can honor and respect my own Mom because I have had a lifelong relationship with her. I don't see how this happens with a woman who died long ago.

What did He look like when you met Him? What was He wearing? How tall is He?

Curious Mary

 

[Marymog]

How would you know?

Hi Marks,

I don’t know!

How do you KNOW?

Curious Mary

 

[Marymog]

I believe that Jesus treated His mother as less than normal because He knew there would be a tendency for people to revere her after all was said and done.

He did not dishonour her; as a matter of fact her relationship to Him brought her too much honour; so Jesus treated her with less respect (calling her "Woman") to bring her honour down to a respectable level...to what it should be rather than to a highly exalted position as the Queen of Heaven.

JBF,

Who is teaching you this garbage? You believe “Jesus treated His mother as less than normal” but you also believe “He did not dishonour her”???? Huhhhhhh???? She had “too much honor”????? WHAT???

Who else is called “woman” in Scripture? Eve? Think about it!!

Is there a King in heaven?

Keeping it real....Mary

 

[Marymog]

She did have other children.

Mar 6:1, And he went out from thence, and came into his own country; and his disciples follow him.
Mar 6:2, And when the sabbath day was come, he began to teach in the synagogue: and many hearing him were astonished, saying, From whence hath this man these things? and what wisdom is this which is given unto him, that even such mighty works are wrought by his hands?
Mar 6:3, Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon? and are not his sisters here with us? And they were offended at him.
Mar 6:4, But Jesus said unto them, A prophet is not without honour, but in his own country, and among his own kin, and in his own house.

Gal 1:19, But other of the apostles saw I none, save James the Lord's brother.

Thank you for making my point. Even you, like me, can not find one passage from Scripture that names the children of Mary....except the passage that names Jesus.

No passage that calls anyone her son or daughter....except the passage that calls Jesus her son.

No passage talking about caring for other children....except the passage looking for he child who she found in the temple.

the Greek could be cousin or half brother

Those “brothers“ can be accounted for by carefully studying scripture (instead of listening to men who fell away from the reformers who fell away from The Church)

Historically it is written they are Josephs children

Etc etc but Proper translation, carful study of Scripture, the oldest historical writings, properly translating Greek do not matter to you so I digress

 

[theefaith]

Um no, it says plainly that Jesus' mother and his brothers came to see him. To believe they weren't her children is to add to scripture. The plain reading is that she had other children.

Did the 12 sons of Jacob have the same mom? They are brothers

 

[Renniks]

If so, then they would be bound to care for Mary when Jesus died..
Why then does He commit her to John's care?

Because he chose to... don't add what isn't said. Don't create an unlikely scenerio from silence.

 

[Renniks]

You can only imply that they are her children since no where in Scripture does it say that Mary had other children.

I am using YOUR criteria to come to my conclusion.....

You are VIOLATING your criteria to come to your conclusion....

What is going on here?

It's the most likely conclusion. They were with her, they were his brothers. You on the other hand create a whole doctrine from nothing.

 

[Taken]

Thank you for making my point. Even you, like me, can not find one passage from Scripture that names the children of Mary...

Correct.
Mary is not the highlight of Scripture or Heaven.

If she did NOT become one with her husband, simply speaks to her disregard of Gods Law.

 

[Marymog]

Mat 1:24, Then Joseph being raised from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him, and took unto him his wife:
Mat 1:25, And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS.

Soooooo you imply from that passage that they had sexual relations and since they had sexual relations they obviously had other children! You have studied Greek and the ancient written word, Philology etc. of the men from 2,000 years ago? You think that Matthew was commenting on their sex life????

Did you know the Greek word for “until” is heos?
Did you know it does not imply that Mary had marital relations after the birth of Christ?
Did you know that in 2 Samuel 6:23 it says that Michal, the daughter of Saul, had no child “until” the day of her death. Does that mean she had a child AFTER she died?
Did you know Hebrews 1:13 and 1 Timothy 4:13 are similar examples.
Did you know when scholars interpret any passage they consider what the author was trying to say.
Did you know that Matthew’s intent here was not to explain what happened after the birth of Christ only the fact that Joseph and Mary had no relations before then. He was emphasizing the virgin birth, NOT giving commentary on their sex life.....

Did you know that I know that none of this matters to you and you will still continue to believe in this new teaching of the men. A teaching that started about 500 years ago....

Thank you for your time.....Mary

 

[Marymog]

It's the most likely conclusion. They were with her, they were his brothers. You on the other hand create a whole doctrine from nothing.

Sooooo, that's it. You violate your own criteria and all you have to say is that what you have concluded is the most likely conclusion? You have to violate your own rules to come up with the most likely conclusion???? Does that not show the weakness of your "conclusion"????


Is it the more likely conclusion that since NO WHERE in Scripture does it say that Mary gave birth to other children that they were not her children?
Is it the more likely conclusion that they were his cousins or half brothers since that is another translation of that word used in that passage?
Is it the more likely conclusion they were not his brothers since they can be accounted for as children of other people in Scripture?
Is it the more likely conclusion that they were not his brothers since historical writings from those times suggest they were Josephs children from previous marriage?
Is it the more likely conclusion that since your theory was not taught until about 500 years ago that your theory is just another attempt for Protestants to get as far away from The Church as possible?

Since you can't show me in Scripture where Mary gave birth to other children, you can't refute the other translation of that word, I CAN account for those "brothers" true mothers and I have historical writings...yes, that evil Catholic tradition,...to come to my "likely conclusion" that means your "conclusion" lakes merit and logic.

None the less...thank you for your time.

 

[Marymog]

Correct.......
If she did NOT become one with her husband, simply speaks to her disregard of Gods Law.

Hmmmm......sooooo show me in "Gods Law" that a wife MUST have sex with her husband?

When Mary asked the angel how she was going to conceive a child in Luke 1:34, the angel responded: The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; therefore the child to be born will be called holy, the Son of God. Notice how this is nuptial language hearkening back to Ruth 3:8? Do you think that Mary is depicted as the spouse of the Holy Spirit in Scripture?

When Mary came up pregnant Joseph would have been required to divorce her because she would then belong to another (see Deuteronomy 24:1-4, Jeremiah 3:1). When Joseph found out that she was impregnated by the Holy Spirit the idea of Joseph having conjugal relations with Mary would not have been a consideration for a “just man” like Joseph. The Holy Spirit is Mary’s spouse and Joseph was her spouse and protector on Earth. For her to be pregnant and un-wed in ancient times would have been a death sentence to her.

I suspect a man like you, a just Christian man, would not consummate your relationship with your new bride after she gave birth to the Son of God?

Curious Mary

 

[Taken]

It's the most likely conclusion. They were with her, they were his brothers. You on the other hand create a whole doctrine from nothing.

Appears to be so!

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[marks]

I don’t know!

Then why would automatically assume it's not so?

Much love!

 

[marks]

Good Morning Marks,

In no way do I think you are belittling or dishonoring Mary! You, compared to some on this forum, have been very kind, gracious, thoughtful and articulate in your communications especially when it comes to Mary.

Previously you mentioned the “holidays” for Mary that us Christians observe. It is in those “holidays” that we Christians (Protestants and Catholics) show our love, honor and respect for the Mother of God. We are one of the many generations that ACTIVELY call her blessed and I pray that future generations will actively call her blessed and continue to show honor to her.

Some show honor/respect to their deceased mothers by visiting their grave regularly or at least on a specific date (birthday, death day, memorial day) taking a moment to remember them! They have a picture prominently placed in their house to remind them of their lost loved one. I don’t think there is anything wrong with that wether it is in honor of their mother or the Mother of God whom Jesus called “woman”. Eve was the first “woman” who is the mother of us all. Jesus compared Mary to Eve.

So YES, we should give “greater honor” to the new Eve who was chosen by God to give life to His son. NO MARY, NO JESUS.

Just because we give Mary greater honor than other women does not mean that other women get less honor from us. It’s not like we have 100 credits of honor to give out and we have to decide to whom we are going to divvy them up to and how much to each person is going to get making sure Mary gets at least one more credit than any other woman.

Your mother gave you life. Mary gave you Jesus who is your path to salvation. They both did great things for us. We should honor and respect both.

Respectfully, Mary

A very good answer! Thank you, Mary!

Much love!

 

[Taken]

Hmmmm......sooooo show me in "Gods Law" that a wife MUST have sex with her husband?

Gen 1:
[22] And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, andmultiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowlmultiply in the earth.

When Mary asked the angel how she was going to conceive a child in Luke 1:34, the angel responded: The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; therefore the child to be born will be called holy, the Son of God. Notice how this is nuptial language hearkening back to Ruth 3:8? Do you think that Mary is depicted as the spouse of the Holy Spirit in Scripture?

LOL- no.

When Mary came up pregnant Joseph would have been required to divorce her because she would then belong to another (see Deuteronomy 24:1-4, Jeremiah 3:1).

What "other"?

When Joseph found out that she was impregnated by the Holy Spirit the idea of Joseph having conjugal relations with Mary would not have been a consideration for a “just man” like Joseph.

That is speculation.
Joseph had a visit from an Angel, and his conjugal relation was limited to during her pregnancy.

The Holy Spirit is Mary’s spouse

Where is that in Scripture?

For her to be pregnant and un-wed in ancient times would have been a death sentence to her.

Yep, no big affair mention of their wedding.

I suspect a man like you, a just Christian man, would not consummate your relationship with your new bride after she gave birth to the Son of God?

Huh?
She didn't Birth the Son of God.

 

[marks]

Hi Marks,

I don’t know!

How do you KNOW?

Curious Mary

Partly by faith, and partly by evidence. The One who 'speaks into my soul' has shown His love, and His intent that I be holy. He speaks in the Word, and He speaks in the quiet voice inside. The way He has spoken to me and what He has done with His Words have left no question in my mind but that this is my Faithful and Loving Creator.

So to be accurate, do I know? Not that I can prove in court, but I'm convinced.

Much love!

 

[Marymog]

(marymog said: Do you think that Mary is depicted as the spouse of the Holy Spirit in Scripture?)
LOL- no.

Soooo when a woman becomes pregnant with Gods child, the man (in this situation God) is not the spouse of that woman? If He is not the spouse, what is he? What is she? Was adultery involved?

 

[Pearl]

In the OT The queen of heaven was the wife of Baal.

 

[justbyfaith]

the Greek could be cousin or half brother

See Matthew 1:25.

And see Ezra 4:21 for an understanding of the word "until".