Mary, Queen of Heaven

[theefaith]

Ok . . . I know the desired course of this conversation will lead to your church's idea of how we honor and respect Mary. With prayers, with special days, apparently.

But you want to build on a foundation of an hypothetical, which isn't actually a reality.

Jesus is not in fact standing in front of me discussing about how I would honor His mother.

So anything down that road is speculating on a non-real situation.

But if you wish to go on the lines of what God is saying to me, let me ask you first,

Does Jesus speak to me? What is your thought on that?

Much love!

apostles authority to bind on earth matt 16:18 18:18

 

[marks]

apostles authority to bind on earth matt 16:18 18:18

I'm not sure what you are wanting to express.

Sorry!

 

[marks]

If Jesus was standing in front of you and asked you "Do you honor, respect and love my mother?" What would your answer be?

Hypothetical questions are not real. They are based on a fiction of your devising, and can be turned any way you wish. There is no real answer, since it's not real event. It's not happening.

Hypothetically, what would your response be Jesus were standing here in front of me, telling me that He is giving me my knowledge and understand, therefore, I am to share it with others on the forum?

Do you see what I mean? We can all come up with hypothetical situations, but they are not reflective of reality, and they are putty in your hands.

So lets go with what we KNOW Jesus has said.

It's back to the Bible.

The Bible teaches me that Jesus knows my heart, so I don't think this is a question He is asking me. The Bible teaches me that God Himself is working in me so that what I want, and what I do will please Him. So I would say He Himself is forming in me my honor and respect for others. That's the reality.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Implied . . . inferred.

Implied is what the speaker does.

Inferred is what the listener does.

Much love!

 

[Marymog]

Hypothetical questions are not real. They are based on a fiction of your devising, and can be turned any way you wish. There is no real answer, since it's not real event. It's not happening.

Hypothetically, what would your response be Jesus were standing here in front of me, telling me that He is giving me my knowledge and understand, therefore, I am to share it with others on the forum?

Do you see what I mean? We can all come up with hypothetical situations, but they are not reflective of reality, and they are putty in your hands.

So lets go with what we KNOW Jesus has said.

It's back to the Bible.

The Bible teaches me that Jesus knows my heart, so I don't think this is a question He is asking me. The Bible teaches me that God Himself is working in me so that what I want, and what I do will please Him. So I would say He Himself is forming in me my honor and respect for others. That's the reality.

Much love!

Thank you Marks. I respect your consistency! No more hypothetical questions then.


Do you honor, respect and love the Mother of Jesus who was chosen by God to bear his son?

 

[Marymog]

Does Jesus speak to me? What is your thought on that?

Much love!

No, I do not think Jesus speaks to you!

 

[marks]

Thank you Marks. I respect your consistency! No more hypothetical questions then.


Do you honor, respect and love the Mother of Jesus who was chosen by God to bear his son?

I've never met her, and have not had opportunity to show her honor, as she is long gone to be with the Lord. Do you think she is watching me now to see what I think of her?

Honor and love and respect are what we show to each other in how we treat each other.

Of course Mary is blessed among women!!!! She bore the Savior!!!! And all generations will call her blessed! Absolutely!

I think what you really mean to ask is, Do I honor Mary more than others? More than my own mother, for instance? Is that your real question?

Should I give greater honor to Jesus' mother? "Lessor" honor to my own? Should I give less honor to some than to others? Become a "respecter of persons", honoring this one more, that one, not so much?

Because it really sounds like that is what you are asking me.

What does Jesus say about how I should act concerning His mother? How to feel?

And please don't misconstrue anything I'm saying as if to belittle Mary, or somehow dishonor anyone!

Much love

 

[theefaith]

Of course Mary is blessed among women!!!! She bore the Savior!!!! And all generations will call her blessed! Absolutely!

But even before she conceived of the HS and before consenting to our salvation scripture says she was blessed

Lk 1:28
And the angel entered to her, and said, Hail, full of grace; the Lord is with thee; blessed be thou among women.

Royal greeting:

Both Mary and Joseph are of the royal house of David the king!
Jesus received the throne of His father king David! The king of heaven!
The mother of the king in the line of David is queen, Mary is the queen of heaven and of the angels!
The angel is greeting His sovereign mistress and queen!

Full of grace: preserved from all sin by the grace of God in virtue of Christ’s merits.

The Lord is with thee: the Lord Jesus is united to her.

Blessed among women: even before becoming the mother of our savior.

Lk 1:40 And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God.
The salvation lost by Adam

 

[Renniks]

Since "the Bible never claimed" that Mary had other children you are implying that she had other children

Um no, it says plainly that Jesus' mother and his brothers came to see him. To believe they weren't her children is to add to scripture. The plain reading is that she had other children.

 

[Renniks]

Hi and thank you,

Yes, it is "very clear": Honor your father and mother.

I wish mine were still alive so I can show them honor. Does that commandment end even after they have died? In death, is there a way I can still honor them?

Trust me, I completely understood your question. You were speaking specifically about holidays and praying to her! You do neither of those. That is why I asked: "If Jesus was standing in front of you and asked you "Do you honor, respect and love my mother?" What would your answer be?"

Mary

How can I truly love someone I've never met? Jesus I have met. There's no scripture that tells me I can or should have a relationship with Jesus' mother.
I can honor and respect my own Mom because I have had a lifelong relationship with her. I don't see how this happens with a woman who died long ago.

 

[marks]

No, I do not think Jesus speaks to you!

How would you know?

 

[justbyfaith]

He is actually glorifying His mother!
No one has done the will of God or been more faithful than Mary mother of God!
Lk 1:45

Actually, among those born of women there is none greater than John the Baptist (Matthew 11:11, Luke 7:28).

 

[justbyfaith]

Can you please clarify: Based on your above statements it seems to me that you think that Jesus showed disrespect for his mother. Do you believe that?

I believe that Jesus treated His mother as less than normal because He knew there would be a tendency for people to revere her after all was said and done.

He did not dishonour her; as a matter of fact her relationship to Him brought her too much honour; so Jesus treated her with less respect (calling her "Woman") to bring her honour down to a respectable level...to what it should be rather than to a highly exalted position as the Queen of Heaven.

Since "the Bible never claimed" that Mary had other children you are implying that she had other children.

She did have other children.

Mar 6:1, And he went out from thence, and came into his own country; and his disciples follow him.
Mar 6:2, And when the sabbath day was come, he began to teach in the synagogue: and many hearing him were astonished, saying, From whence hath this man these things? and what wisdom is this which is given unto him, that even such mighty works are wrought by his hands?
Mar 6:3, Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon? and are not his sisters here with us? And they were offended at him.
Mar 6:4, But Jesus said unto them, A prophet is not without honour, but in his own country, and among his own kin, and in his own house.

Gal 1:19, But other of the apostles saw I none, save James the Lord's brother.

 

[justbyfaith]

ἀδελφός

Transliteration
adelphos ἄλφα (G1) (as a connective particle) and delphus (the womb)

Dictionary Aids
Vine's Expository Dictionary: brethren (226x), brother (113x), brother's (6x), brother's way (1x).

Outline of Biblical Usage G1 (as a connective particle) and δελφύς delphýs (the womb); a brother (literally or figuratively) near or remote (much like G1):—brother.

Thayer's Greek Lexicon Matthew 1:2; Matthew 4:18, and often. That 'the brethren of Jesus,' Matthew 12:46, 47 [but WH only in marginal reading]; Matthew 13:55f; Mark 6:3 (in the last two passages also sisters); Luke 8:19; John 2:12; John 7:3; Acts 1:14; Galatians 1:19; 1 Corinthians 9:5, are neither sons of Joseph by a wife married before Mary (which is the account in the Apocryphal Gospels [cf. Thilo, Cod. Apocr. N. T. i. 362f]), nor cousins, the children of Alphæus or Cleophas [i. e. Clopas] and Mary a sister of the mother of Jesus (the current opinion among the doctors of the church since Jerome and Augustine [cf. Bp. Lightfoot's Commentary on Galatians, diss. ii.]), according to that use of language by which ἀδελφός like the Hebrew אָח denotes any blood-relation or kinsman (Genesis 14:16; 1 Samuel 20:29; 2 Kings 10:13; 1 Chronicles 23:22, etc.), but own brothers, born after Jesus, is clear principally from Matthew 1:25 [only in R G]; Luke 2:7 — where, had Mary borne no other children after Jesus, instead of υἱὸν πρωτότοκον, the expression υἱὸν μονογενῆ would have been used, as well as from Acts 1:14, cf. John 7:5, where the Lord's brethren are distinguished from the apostles.
See further on this point under Ἰάκωβος, 3. [Cf. B. D. under the word Brother; Andrews, Life of our Lord, pp. 104-116; Bib. Sacr. for 1864, pp. 855-869; for 1869, pp. 745-758; Laurent, N. T. Studien, pp. 153-193; McClellan, note on Matthew 13:55.]
2. according to a Hebrew use of אָח (Exodus 2:11; Exodus 4:18, etc.), hardly to be met with in secular authors, having the same national ancestor, belonging to the same people, countryman; so the Jews (as the σπέρμα Ἀβραάμ, υἱοἰ Ἰσραήλ, cf. Acts 13:26; [in Deuteronomy 15:3 opposed to ὁ ἀλλότριος, cf. Acts 17:15; Acts 15:12; Philo de septen. § 9 at the beginning]) are called ἀδελφοί: Matthew 5:47; Acts 3:22 (Deuteronomy 18:15); Acts 7:23; 22:5; 28:15, 21; Romans 9:3; in address, Acts 2:29; Acts 3:17; Acts 23:1; Hebrews 7:5.
3. just as in Leviticus 19:17 the word אָח is used interchangeably with רֵַעַ (but, as Leviticus 19:16, 18 show, in speaking of Israelites), so in the sayings of Christ, Matthew 5:22, 24; Matthew 7:3ff, ἀδελφός is used for ὁ πλησίον to denote (as appears from Luke 10:29ff) any fellow-man — as having one and the same father with others, viz. God (Hebrews 2:11), and as descended from the same first ancestor (Acts 17:26); cf. Epictetus diss. 1, 13, 3.
4. a fellow-believer, united to another by the bond of affection; so most frequently of Christians, constituting as it were but a single family: Matthew 23:8; John 21:23; Acts 6:3 [Lachmann omits]; Acts 9:30; 11:1; Galatians 1:2; 1 Corinthians 5:11; Philippians 1:14, etc.; in courteous address, Romans 1:13; Romans 7:1; 1 Corinthians 1:10; 1 John 2:7 Rec., and often elsewhere; yet in the phraseology of John it has reference to the new life unto which men are begotten again by the efficiency of a common father, even God: 1 John 2:9ff; 1 John 3:10, 14; etc., cf. 1 John 5:1.
5. an associate in employment or office: 1 Corinthians 1:1; 2 Corinthians 1:1; 2 Corinthians 2:13 (12); Ephesians 6:21; Colossians 1:1.
6. brethren of Christ is used of,
a. his brothers by blood; see 1 above.
b. all men: Matthew 25:40 [Lachmann brackets]; Hebrews 2:11f [others refer these examples to d.]
c. apostles: Matthew 28:10; John 20:17.
d. Christians, as those who are destined to be exalted to the same heavenly δόξα (which see, III. 4 b.) which he enjoys: Romans 8:29.

 

[justbyfaith]

In Matthew 1:25 it is implied that Joseph knew Mary sexually after she bore the Lord from her womb.

 

[justbyfaith]

Consider the use of the word "until" in Ezra 4:21.

 

[Philip James]

Yes, all scripture is inspired, that doesn't' mean everything in scripture applies to me.

You find nothing in those psssages that apply to you?

Perhaps Paul should have said; ' some scripture is useful..' <sarc>

 

[Philip James]

Of course. Jesus had brothers and sisters, according to scripture, so obviously, she gave birth to other children.

If so, then they would be bound to care for Mary when Jesus died..
Why then does He commit her to John's care?

 

[justbyfaith]

Mat 1:24, Then Joseph being raised from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him, and took unto him his wife:
Mat 1:25, And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS.

 

[Marymog]

I've never met her, and have not had opportunity to show her honor, as she is long gone to be with the Lord. Do you think she is watching me now to see what I think of her?

Honor and love and respect are what we show to each other in how we treat each other.

Of course Mary is blessed among women!!!! She bore the Savior!!!! And all generations will call her blessed! Absolutely!

I think what you really mean to ask is, Do I honor Mary more than others? More than my own mother, for instance? Is that your real question?

Should I give greater honor to Jesus' mother? "Lessor" honor to my own? Should I give less honor to some than to others? Become a "respecter of persons", honoring this one more, that one, not so much?

Because it really sounds like that is what you are asking me.

What does Jesus say about how I should act concerning His mother? How to feel?

And please don't misconstrue anything I'm saying as if to belittle Mary, or somehow dishonor anyone!

Much love

Good Morning Marks,

In no way do I think you are belittling or dishonoring Mary! You, compared to some on this forum, have been very kind, gracious, thoughtful and articulate in your communications especially when it comes to Mary.

Previously you mentioned the “holidays” for Mary that us Christians observe. It is in those “holidays” that we Christians (Protestants and Catholics) show our love, honor and respect for the Mother of God. We are one of the many generations that ACTIVELY call her blessed and I pray that future generations will actively call her blessed and continue to show honor to her.

Some show honor/respect to their deceased mothers by visiting their grave regularly or at least on a specific date (birthday, death day, memorial day) taking a moment to remember them! They have a picture prominently placed in their house to remind them of their lost loved one. I don’t think there is anything wrong with that wether it is in honor of their mother or the Mother of God whom Jesus called “woman”. Eve was the first “woman” who is the mother of us all. Jesus compared Mary to Eve.

So YES, we should give “greater honor” to the new Eve who was chosen by God to give life to His son. NO MARY, NO JESUS.

Just because we give Mary greater honor than other women does not mean that other women get less honor from us. It’s not like we have 100 credits of honor to give out and we have to decide to whom we are going to divvy them up to and how much to each person is going to get making sure Mary gets at least one more credit than any other woman.

Your mother gave you life. Mary gave you Jesus who is your path to salvation. They both did great things for us. We should honor and respect both.

Respectfully, Mary