Mary, Queen of Heaven

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Renniks

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As for his "support" of a civil union law in Argentina in 2010 - he was talking about it as a legal alternative to "marriage" which he deemed was impossible and contrary to God. When homosexual "marriage" came up for a vote on a Proposition in my state- MANY churches stated that we already had civil union laws that they supported (for lack of a better term) - but were against the idea of gay "marriage" which is impossible in the eyes of God.
Yeah well the Catholic Church doesn't recognize my marriage as legitimate, but the Pope considers civil unions of people who claim to be gay legitimate?
 

BreadOfLife

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No such thing according to scripture as a homosexual. Interesting that you believe something that is against scripture.
Having homosexual desire does not make one a homo, BTW. It's not any different than any other temptation. To claim children can be homo shows how far you fall from scripture.
So, you FAILED to show me where the Bible says that you're supposed to hate and ostracize your child if they are homosexual.

And you're WRONG about what makes a person a homosexual.
Like a heterosexual - a homosexual doesn't have to engage in sexual acts to be who they are.
 

Renniks

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Show me the quote - and the Pope.
You can't because no Pope has EVER taught this.
It can no longer simply be said that all those in any irregular situations are living in a state of mortal sin and are deprived of sanctifying grace," he wrote. Even those in an "objective situation of sin" can be in a state of grace, and can even be more pleasing to God by trying to improve, he said.
 

BreadOfLife

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Yeah well the Catholic Church doesn't recognize my marriage as legitimate, but the Pope considers civil unions of people who claim to be gay legitimate?
Nope.
He didn't want the Argentine legislature to make a law that legalized "marriage" of homosexuals.

That's
why I explained what happened in MY state and all of the Protestant churches who did exactly what the Pope did.
Why aren't you condemning THEM?
 

BreadOfLife

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It can no longer simply be said that all those in any irregular situations are living in a state of mortal sin and are deprived of sanctifying grace," he wrote. Even those in an "objective situation of sin" can be in a state of grace, and can even be more pleasing to God by trying to improve, he said.
Give me the context of what he is talking about.
You approach current events like you do the Bible - little snippets taken OUT of context . . .
 

Mungo

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No you just misunderstand.

I don't misunderstand.
Your statement was very clear
"So to claim the Catholic Church teachings never change? Paaaleese! They change with every pope."

What part of "They change with every pope." doesn't mean they change with every pope?
 
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Renniks

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I don't misunderstand.
Your statement was very clear
"So to claim the Catholic Church teachings never change? Paaaleese! They change with every pope."

What part of "They change with every pope." doesn't mean they change with every pope?
I know Catholics that are just as concerned about things this Pope says and does as I am. I don't understand how you can justify his going against your church doctrine. Seems a Catholic has the choice to follow the Pope or remain a consistent Catholic. That does not bother you?
 

Renniks

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Give me the context of what he is talking about.
You approach current events like you do the Bible - little snippets taken OUT of context . . .

Noting that the virus may be linked to birth defects when transmitted from a pregnant woman to her unborn baby, the reporter asked the Holy Father about proposals involving “abortion, or else avoiding pregnancy” in areas where Zika virus is prevalent.

The Pope responded by emphatically stating that abortion is “a crime” and “absolute evil” that cannot be justified. He also spoke on the topic of avoiding pregnancy.

“Paul VI, a great man, in a difficult situation in Africa, permitted nuns to use contraceptives in cases of rape,” he said.

Seven sentences later, he added another comment. Not mentioning contraception specifically, he simply said that “avoiding pregnancy is not an absolute evil. In certain cases, as in this one, or in the one I mentioned of Blessed Paul VI, it was clear.”

That's from Catholic news agency and of course they find a way to justify and get around it...

"He insisted the church's aim is to reintegrate and welcome all its members. He called for a new language to help Catholic families cope with today's problems. And he said pastors must take into account mitigating factors — fear, ignorance, habits and duress — in counseling Catholics who simply aren't perfect.

"It can no longer simply be

WORLD
Let couples, not the Church, decide on contraception: Pope Francis writes in 'The Joy of Love'
Pope Francis said the church-sanctioned family planning method must be promoted, but not that other methods are forbidden.
APApril 08, 2016 17:16:30 IST
Pope-Francis-380-Reuters.jpg



Vatican City: Pope Francis insisted that individual conscience be the guiding principle for Catholics negotiating the complexities of sex, marriage and family life in a major document released Friday that rejects the emphasis on black and white rules for the faithful.

In the 256-page document The Joy of Love, Francis makes no change in church doctrine and strongly upholds that marriage is a lifelong commitment.

But in selectively citing his predecessors and emphasising his own teachings, Francis makes clear that he wants nothing short of a revolution in the way priests accompany Catholics, saying the church must no longer sit in judgment and "throw stones" against those who fail to live up to the Gospel's ideals of marriage and family life.


Pope Francis. Reuters

"I understand those who prefer a more rigorous pastoral care which leaves no room for confusion," he wrote. "But I sincerely believe that Jesus wants a church attentive to the goodness which the Holy Spirit sows in the midst of human weakness."

On thorny issues such as contraception, Francis stressed that a couple's individual conscience — not dogmatic rules imposed across the board — must guide their decisions and the church's pastoral practice.

"We have been called to form consciences, not replace to them," he said.

He insisted the church's aim is to reintegrate and welcome all its members. He called for a new language to help Catholic families cope with today's problems. And he said pastors must take into account mitigating factors — fear, ignorance, habits and duress — in counseling Catholics who simply aren't perfect.

"It can no longer simply be said that all those in any irregular situations are living in a state of mortal sin and are deprived of sanctifying grace," he wrote. Even those in an "objective situation of sin" can be in a state of grace, and can even be more pleasing to God by trying to improve, he said.

The document's release marks the culmination of a divisive two-year consultation of ordinary Catholics and the church hierarchy that Francis initiated in hopes of understanding the problems facing Catholic families today and providing them with better pastoral care.

The most divisive issue that arose during two meetings of bishops, or synods, was whether Francis would loosen the Vatican's strict position on whether Catholics who divorce and remarry can receive Communion. Church teaching holds that unless these Catholics receive an annulment, or a church decree that their first marriage was invalid, they are committing adultery and cannot receive Communion.


Conservatives had insisted that the rules were fixed and that there was no way around Christ's teaching on the indissolubility of marriage. Progressives had sought wiggle room to balance doctrine with mercy and look at each couple on a case-by-case basis, accompanying them on a path of reconciliation that could lead to them eventually receiving the sacraments."

Now, I don't have a dog in this hunt ..I don't have a problem with married people using contraceptives, but it is Catholic doctrine.

Francis took a unilateral step last year in changing church law to make it easier to get an annulment. On Friday, he said the rigorous response proposed by the conservatives was inconsistent with Jesus' message of mercy.
Let couples, not the Church, decide on contraception: Pope Francis writes in 'The Joy of Love' - World News , Firstpost
 
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Jim B

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Again, no one IS born homosexual, just like no one is born a thief.

And the basis for saying this is..? And what does being "born a thief" have to do with anything?

Furthermore, the topic of the thread is "Mary, Queen of Heaven". Obviously your post has nothing to do with the OP.
 

Renniks

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And the basis for saying this is..? And what does being "born a thief" have to do with anything?

Furthermore, the topic of the thread is "Mary, Queen of Heaven". Obviously your post has nothing to do with the OP.
Leviticus 18:22
"Do not practice homosexuality, having sex with another man as with a woman. It is a detestable sin."
(NLT)
Leviticus 20:13
"If a man practices homosexuality, having sex with another man as with a woman, both men have
committed a detestable act. They must both be put to death, for they are guilty of a capital offense."
(NLT)

It's a sinful act, it's not one's identity. Just as any sin is something we choose to do, not what we are.
 

BreadOfLife

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Noting that the virus may be linked to birth defects when transmitted from a pregnant woman to her unborn baby, the reporter asked the Holy Father about proposals involving “abortion, or else avoiding pregnancy” in areas where Zika virus is prevalent.

The Pope responded by emphatically stating that abortion is “a crime” and “absolute evil” that cannot be justified. He also spoke on the topic of avoiding pregnancy.

“Paul VI, a great man, in a difficult situation in Africa, permitted nuns to use contraceptives in cases of rape,” he said.

Seven sentences later, he added another comment. Not mentioning contraception specifically, he simply said that “avoiding pregnancy is not an absolute evil. In certain cases, as in this one, or in the one I mentioned of Blessed Paul VI, it was clear.”

That's from Catholic news agency and of course they find a way to justify and get around it...

"He insisted the church's aim is to reintegrate and welcome all its members. He called for a new language to help Catholic families cope with today's problems. And he said pastors must take into account mitigating factors — fear, ignorance, habits and duress — in counseling Catholics who simply aren't perfect.

"It can no longer simply be

WORLD
Let couples, not the Church, decide on contraception: Pope Francis writes in 'The Joy of Love'
Pope Francis said the church-sanctioned family planning method must be promoted, but not that other methods are forbidden.
APApril 08, 2016 17:16:30 IST

Vatican City: Pope Francis insisted that individual conscience be the guiding principle for Catholics negotiating the complexities of sex, marriage and family life in a major document released Friday that rejects the emphasis on black and white rules for the faithful.

In the 256-page document The Joy of Love, Francis makes no change in church doctrine and strongly upholds that marriage is a lifelong commitment.

But in selectively citing his predecessors and emphasising his own teachings, Francis makes clear that he wants nothing short of a revolution in the way priests accompany Catholics, saying the church must no longer sit in judgment and "throw stones" against those who fail to live up to the Gospel's ideals of marriage and family life.


Pope Francis. Reuters

"I understand those who prefer a more rigorous pastoral care which leaves no room for confusion," he wrote. "But I sincerely believe that Jesus wants a church attentive to the goodness which the Holy Spirit sows in the midst of human weakness."

On thorny issues such as contraception, Francis stressed that a couple's individual conscience — not dogmatic rules imposed across the board — must guide their decisions and the church's pastoral practice.

"We have been called to form consciences, not replace to them," he said.

He insisted the church's aim is to reintegrate and welcome all its members. He called for a new language to help Catholic families cope with today's problems. And he said pastors must take into account mitigating factors — fear, ignorance, habits and duress — in counseling Catholics who simply aren't perfect.

"It can no longer simply be said that all those in any irregular situations are living in a state of mortal sin and are deprived of sanctifying grace," he wrote. Even those in an "objective situation of sin" can be in a state of grace, and can even be more pleasing to God by trying to improve, he said.

The document's release marks the culmination of a divisive two-year consultation of ordinary Catholics and the church hierarchy that Francis initiated in hopes of understanding the problems facing Catholic families today and providing them with better pastoral care.

The most divisive issue that arose during two meetings of bishops, or synods, was whether Francis would loosen the Vatican's strict position on whether Catholics who divorce and remarry can receive Communion. Church teaching holds that unless these Catholics receive an annulment, or a church decree that their first marriage was invalid, they are committing adultery and cannot receive Communion.


Conservatives had insisted that the rules were fixed and that there was no way around Christ's teaching on the indissolubility of marriage. Progressives had sought wiggle room to balance doctrine with mercy and look at each couple on a case-by-case basis, accompanying them on a path of reconciliation that could lead to them eventually receiving the sacraments."

Now, I don't have a dog in this hunt ..I don't have a problem with married people using contraceptives, but it is Catholic doctrine.

Francis took a unilateral step last year in changing church law to make it easier to get an annulment. On Friday, he said the rigorous response proposed by the conservatives was inconsistent with Jesus' message of mercy.
Let couples, not the Church, decide on contraception: Pope Francis writes in 'The Joy of Love' - World News , Firstpost
And in your complete idiocy - you again FAIL to understand that "avoiding pregnancy" and contraception are TWO SEPARATE issues.
Whereas the first simply involves the timing of a woman's menstrual/ovulation cycles - the other is deemed intrinsically evil.

the Church has NEVER changed its position on this - so I caught you in yet another LIE . . .
 

BreadOfLife

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Leviticus 18:22
"Do not practice homosexuality, having sex with another man as with a woman. It is a detestable sin."
(NLT)
Leviticus 20:13
"If a man practices homosexuality, having sex with another man as with a woman, both men have
committed a detestable act. They must both be put to death, for they are guilty of a capital offense."
(NLT)

It's a sinful act, it's not one's identity. Just as any sin is something we choose to do, not what we are.
And once again - in your idiocy, you FAIL to understand that heterosexuality can be JUST as a sinful as homosexuality.

Soooooo - is anybody BORN a heterosexual proclivity?
Of course they are - just as there are those who are born with homosexual proclivity - although, for many , it is a matter of societal conditioning.

Do you say stupid things like this when you're NOT posting here?
 

Mungo

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I know Catholics that are just as concerned about things this Pope says and does as I am. I don't understand how you can justify his going against your church doctrine. Seems a Catholic has the choice to follow the Pope or remain a consistent Catholic. That does not bother you?

You haven't shown that the Pope is going against Church doctrine.
You have just made a sweeping and baseless accusation against him and every Pope, yet that doesn't seem to concern you.
I suggest you just apologise and we can move on.
 

Renniks

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And in your complete idiocy - you again FAIL to understand that "avoiding pregnancy" and contraception are TWO SEPARATE issues.
Whereas the first simply involves the timing of a woman's menstrual/ovulation cycles - the other is deemed intrinsically evil.

the Church has NEVER changed its position on this - so I caught you in yet another LIE . . .
You really aren't paying attention so why bother? I didn't say the church changed its position, I said that the Pope seems to be approving of contraceptives.
 

Renniks

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You haven't shown that the Pope is going against Church doctrine.
You have just made a sweeping and baseless accusation against him and every Pope, yet that doesn't seem to concern you.
I suggest you just apologise and we can move on.
So I guess that the liberal pope does not bother you? It's not as if there haven't been corrupt popes before. Why do I never get answers?
 

Renniks

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Do you say stupid things like this when you're NOT posting here?
And yet another reason to never want to be Catholic. Apparently, calling other Christians stupid isn't a sin for you, but hey if it is you can just confess it to a man and be fine... So why should any sin matter?
 

justbyfaith

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It goes to show that YOU don't have a monopoly on lies.

Gee - and I thought you put me one "ignore".
Your obsession with me HAS to come to an end . . .
Just happened to run across your post.

In calling other people liars, you are too blind to see that you have three fingers pointing back at you.

(Matthew 7:1-5).