Mary, Queen of Heaven

[marks]

I'm not aware that any woman in the line of David was called Queen because she was the wife of the king.
There is one example where the grandmother of the king was called the gebirah, presumably his mother was dead.

I'll need to look back through.

 

[Mungo]

I would have to say I see this flatly denied in Romans 5, and 1 Corinthians 15, where this is laid squarely on Adam. I would have to ignore the exclusive language used to accept Eve/Mary's role as you are saying.

In Adam all die. In Christ all are made alive.


But that's not what happened.

Romans 5:12 "Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned"

This seems very plain and clear to me.

Much love!

It was Adam's sin that caused the fall. but Eve sinned first by eating the apple first, and then she gave some to Adam to eat.
"So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was a delight to the eyes, and that the tree was to be desired to make one wise, she took of its fruit and ate; and she also gave some to her husband, and he ate."(Gen 3:6) If she had not done that sin and death would not have entered the world. And verse 9 - The man said, “The woman whom thou gavest to be with me, she gave me fruit of the tree, and I ate.”

If you prefer we could say Eve indirectly brought sin and death by tempting Adam and giving him the fruit.

 

[marks]

It was Adam's sin that caused the fall. but Eve sinned first by eating the apple first, and then she gave some to Adam to eat.
"So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was a delight to the eyes, and that the tree was to be desired to make one wise, she took of its fruit and ate; and she also gave some to her husband, and he ate."(Gen 3:6) If she had not done that sin and death would not have entered the world. And verse 9 - The man said, “The woman whom thou gavest to be with me, she gave me fruit of the tree, and I ate.”

If you prefer we could say Eve indirectly brought sin and death by tempting Adam and giving him the fruit.

It's an interesting idea, Eve handed death to Adam, and Mary handed life to Christ, something like that?

It's also an interesting question, would Adam have sinned and eaten had not Eve eaten first, and then given it to him? I suppose we can only speculate. The passages seem pretty clear to me that Adam is held responsible rather than Eve.

Still, I want to let you know I appreciate your taking the time to run through all of this with me!

Much love!

 

[theefaith]

I'll need to look back through.

mother not wife

 

[marks]

mother not wife

I've just been going through all the passages which mention queen or mother, and it's about like I was remembering, very very little to go by. Someone who's mother was the queen. A queen stands at the kings side. A seat is brought for the king's mother. I can't find anything that spells out a practice or rule or principle. In one case the king took away his mother from being queen due to her idolatry.

And of course all the passages on the 'queen of heaven', an idolatrous practice.

Much love!

 

[theefaith]

In the o.t. Yes but Mary is queen rev. 12:1

 

[Philip James]

Following this logic, anyone in Jesus' line who obeyed God, from Adam onward deserves some kind of honor

Indeed.

..I don't see how this answers my question. He told a disciple to treat her as his mother.

That diaciple is all of us, who come to the foot of the cross...

There is nothing to fear from Mary, Jesus gives her to us at the foot of the cross..

Peace be with you!

 

[bbyrd009]

you dont have to die a virgin worshipper if you dont want to, though; dont you guys know what "Mary" even means?
i submit that you are not even aware of who is in your pantheon, wadr

It was Adam's sin that caused the fall. but Eve sinned first by eating the apple first, and then she gave some to Adam to eat.
"So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was a delight to the eyes, and that the tree was to be desired to make one wise, she took of its fruit and ate; and she also gave some to her husband, and he ate."(Gen 3:6) If she had not done that sin and death would not have entered the world. And verse 9 - The man said, “The woman whom thou gavest to be with me, she gave me fruit of the tree, and I ate.”

If you prefer we could say Eve indirectly brought sin and death by tempting Adam and giving him the fruit.

contemplate Adam and Eve as yourself maybe, in thinking and emotions?
and hopefully you accept that there was no literal fruit, nor tree

 

[marks]

In the o.t. Yes but Mary is queen rev. 12:1

It can sound like that, I agree,

5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

But then again, I think it sounds more like Israel,

6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.
14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.
17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Much love!

 

[Mungo]

And after that?

We live with God in hevanely bliss.

 

[Mungo]

It can sound like that, I agree,

5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

But then again, I think it sounds more like Israel,

6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.
14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.
17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Much love!

There are three different suggestions are proposed for whop the woman is:- Mary, symbolic of Israel, symbolic of the Church. It is possible that she represents all three. Such “fusion imagery” is common in the Bible, especially in apocalyptic literature.

For example in Rev 4:6-8 the four beasts around the throne are a fusion of the elements of the cherubim in Ezekial 10:1-14 and the Seraphim in Isaiah 6:1-6.

Like the cherubim in Ezekial they have faces of a man, an ox, a lion and an eagle, like the Seraphim they had six wings.

The elders around the throne are 24 (Rev 4:4) because they are a fusion of the 12 patriarchs and the 12 apostles.

Polyvalent symbolism is also a feature of Revelation. For example the seven heads of the beast in Rev 17:3 represent seven hills and also seven kings (Rev 17:9)

It would not be surprising therefore if the woman in Rev 12 is a fusion and/or polyvalent symbolism with elements of Israel and the Church present. Primarily though the woman must be Mary, the mother of Jesus.

 

[Renniks]

That diaciple is all of us, who come to the foot of the cross...

There is nothing to fear from Mary, Jesus gives her to us at the foot of the cross..

Not biblical. You can not just take everything in the Bible that happened and apply it to us. This isn't correct scripture interpretation, it's adding to the Word.

 

[Philip James]

You can not just take everything in the Bible that happened and apply it to us.

Why not?

All scripture is inspired by God and is useful for teaching, for refutation, for correction, and for training in righteousness,

Peace!

 

[theefaith]

Rev 12

1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:
Queen Mary!

2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.
Mary has a little lamb!

3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
Gen 3:15 enmity war none of his works are found in her, she crushed his proud head, conquering queen of heaven!

4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.

9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.
Gen 3:15 enmity

14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.

16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.

17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Israel never conquered Satan never crushed his proud head, they were even worshipping the sun in the temple!
Children of Israel never kept the commandments never had the testimony of Jesus, they persecuted Christ and His church and killed Him! Crucify Him! Crucify Him!

 

[theefaith]

Not biblical. You can not just take everything in the Bible that happened and apply it to us. This isn't correct scripture interpretation, it's adding to the Word.

it say disciple so applies to all disciples and rev 12:17 queen Mary’s spiritual children, behold thy mother

 

[marks]

There are three different suggestions are proposed for whop the woman is:- Mary, symbolic of Israel, symbolic of the Church. It is possible that she represents all three. Such “fusion imagery” is common in the Bible, especially in apocalyptic literature.

For example in Rev 4:6-8 the four beasts around the throne are a fusion of the elements of the cherubim in Ezekial 10:1-14 and the Seraphim in Isaiah 6:1-6.

Like the cherubim in Ezekial they have faces of a man, an ox, a lion and an eagle, like the Seraphim they had six wings.

The elders around the throne are 24 (Rev 4:4) because they are a fusion of the 12 patriarchs and the 12 apostles.

Polyvalent symbolism is also a feature of Revelation. For example the seven heads of the beast in Rev 17:3 represent seven hills and also seven kings (Rev 17:9)

It would not be surprising therefore if the woman in Rev 12 is a fusion and/or polyvalent symbolism with elements of Israel and the Church present. Primarily though the woman must be Mary, the mother of Jesus.

Yes, this is another very interesting line of thought! The seven heads is a perfect example.

In the creatures around the throne, I've never thought to describe them as fusion imagery, more that they have commonalities with others of God's creatures. The elders, perhaps, I think that's reasonable, but perhaps something different.

With the 7 heads, the text tells us that there are two meanings. Is there something like that in Revelation 12 concerning the sign of the woman?

The sign itself, the woman clothed with the sun, the moon at her feet, and the stars, doesn't that more point us back to Joseph's dream? And Israel?

Much love!

 

[marks]

We live with God in hevanely bliss.

On a new earth? I guess the question in my mind is do you see Mary remaining at Jesus' side in eternity?

Much love!

 

[theefaith]

The child is Jesus the woman his mother has to be Mary

 

[Renniks]

Why not?

All scripture is inspired by God and is useful for teaching, for refutation, for correction, and for training in righteousness,

Peace!

Lol, so I'm headed out to kill me some philistines! And then I'm going to jump in with some lions at the zoo. And then I'm gonna tell all my neighbors God is sending a worldwide flood to kill everyone! Thanks for the help!

Yes, all scripture is inspired, that doesn't' mean everything in scripture applies to me. Not everyone is given every command in scripture.

 

[Renniks]

it say disciple so applies to all disciples and rev 12:17 queen Mary’s spiritual children, behold thy mother

So, everything that applies to one disciple applies to every believer? Ok, I'm headed out to catch a fish with a gold coin in his mouth so we can pay our taxes...C'mon, get real, this is basic common sense stuff.