Mary, Queen of Heaven
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OK, but here's what I'm wondering. Is there a place that the Bible names one to be the "queen mother" who was not the wife to the king, who then went on to bear the king's son, the next king?
Much love!
Philip James
Well-Known Member
Pay to all their dues, taxes to whom taxes are due, toll to whom toll is due, respect to whom respect is due, honor to whom honor is due
Question: is there any creature to whom more honour is due than Mary?
Christ is risen!
Alleluia!
Jesus is the Last Adam, meaning a new humanity. This was so He was not born of corrupt flesh.
If that were accomplished by making Mary born without corrupt flesh, then she would have been the Last Eve, and Jesus simply her uncorrupted projeny.
Much love!
OK, you can postulate that, but let's be fair. The passage doesn't say that, does it?
We honor all to whom honor is due, but that doesn't declare Mary to be the Queen of Heaven. How much honor are we to give to God's creation?
Isn't that passage in Romans more of a temporal civic sense?
Much love!
@Prayer Warrior
Rather, there were only two men created by God who were created without the corruption of sin, from whom all others within their line of humanity would come. Eve was formed from Adam. Adam is before Eve. The church is formed from Christ. He is preeminent.
Two trees, each bearing their seed within them, producing after their own kind.
All who derive from Adam share all that is his. All who derive from Christ share all that is His. The first man, and the Last Man.
Much love!
Last edited:
Prayer Warrior
Well-Known Member
Um...I don't see how this answers my question. He told a disciple to treat her as his mother. Which BTW doesn't have anything to do her with being a queen. And it's not for us.
Following this logic, anyone in Jesus' line who obeyed God, from Adam onward deserves some kind of honor, but not to be lauded as a perfect person who never died, which is a total fairy tale.
The early fathers talked about recapitulation, renewing and reversing what went wrong in previous times. They considered that Both Jesus and Mary were involved in recapitulation of the Fall. They see Mary is the New Eve just as Jesus is the New Adam.
Firstly Justin Martyr, writing in 160AD (Letter to Trypho) wrote:
“Christ became man by the Virgin, in order that the disobedience that proceeded from the serpent might receive its destruction in the same manner in which it derived its origin. For Eve was a virgin and undefiled, having conceived the word of the serpent, brought forth disobedience and death. But the Virgin Mary received faith and joy when the angel Gabriel announced the good tidings to her that the Spirit of the Lord……And by her has He been born, to Whom we have proved so many Scriptures refer, and by Whom God destroys both the serpent and those angels and men who are like him.”
Then Irenaeus of Lyons (140 – 202) says that just as Adam was the head of the old human race, so Jesus is the head of the new humanity. And, just as Adam had a collaborator in the person of Eve, so Jesus has a collaborator in the person of Mary. Mary is the Eve in God’s new creation. Writing in Against Heresies he wrote:
In accordance with this design Mary the Virgin is found obedient, saying “Behold the handmaid of the Lord, be it done unto me according to thy word”. But Eve was disobedient; for she did not obey when she was yet a virgin. And even as she, having indeed a husband, Adam, but being as yet a virgin……having become disobedient was made the cause of death, both for herself and the whole human race; so also did Mary, having a man betrothed (to her), and being nevertheless a virgin, by yielding obedience, became the cause of salvation, both to herself and the whole human race
Paul uses this idea in 1Cor 15:20-22 & 45-45 when comparing Adam to Christ. Christ is the new Adam who undoes the damage cause by the first Adam’s disobedience (Rom 5:12-21)
Although the primary sin was Adam’s, Eve too was implicated in the fall by her disobedience. It is fitting therefore that in the fullness of time there would be a second Eve (Mary) to undo what the first one did, just as the second Adam (Jesus) undid what the first Adam did.
They are like bookends between the fall and the beginning of our redemption.
First Adam, then Eve, made from Adam’s rib.
New Eve (Mary) then Jesus, formed in Mary’s womb.
Paul wrote in 1Cor 11:12 "for as woman was made from man, so man is now born of woman. And all things are from God".
He's not specifically writing about Jesus an Mary but we could insert them:
“For as woman [Eve] was made from man {Adam], so man [New Adam] is now born of woman [New Eve]. And all things are from God.”(1Cor 11:12)
There are several parallels between Eve and Mary
Eve was a virgin who brought forth sin and death
Mary was a virgin who brought forth grace and salvation (Jesus)
Eve listened to a fallen angel (Satan) and conceived the word of the serpent in her heart.
Mary listened to an angel of God (Gabriel) conceived the Word of God in her womb.
Eve was disobedient to God
Mary was obedient to God.
Eve gave Adam the forbidden fruit which brought about the Fall
Mary gives us the fruit of her womb (Lk 1:42) which brought about Redemption
The Fall came when both Adam and Eve were together under the shadow of tree of Good and Evil.
Redemption came when the New Adam and the New Eve were together under the shadow of another tree – the cross.
@Prayer Warrior
So Adam and Jesus were not the only two who were sinless. Mary is the New Eve and apart from other reasons it is fitiing that she be conceived sinless. Please have a read of my post #112 above
So Adam and Jesus were not the only two who were sinless. Mary is the New Eve and apart from other reasons it is fitiing that she be conceived sinless. Please have a read of my post #112 above
I'm sorry, I didn't ask that right.
If the king were the first king from his particular family, is his mother still called the queen mother? Having never been a king's wife?
It's just that as I've read through the Kings and Chronicles recently, my impression is that "queen mother" is an honor according the mother of the king, because she had been the queen, the wife of the king.
Much love!
No ruling on earth for Jesus? Rather, eternally continuing rule in heaven?
So that I believe that Jesus returns to earth to rule as King of Kings, and then judges the dead, and creates the new heavens and new earth.
Much love!
I would have to say I see this flatly denied in Romans 5, and 1 Corinthians 15, where this is laid squarely on Adam. I would have to ignore the exclusive language used to accept Eve/Mary's role as you are saying.
In Adam all die. In Christ all are made alive.
But that's not what happened.
Romans 5:12 "Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned"
This seems very plain and clear to me.
Much love!
I'm not aware that any woman in the line of David was called Queen because she was the wife of the king.
There is one example where the grandmother of the king was called the gebirah, presumably his mother was dead.
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