(Mis)understanding Salvation

[Episkopos]

For those who want to engage in an actual discussion instead of more ad-hominen fluff...please listen to the video and comment on what is actually said...using time stamps if the point needs clarification. Please provide more than religious opinions...but use the word to back up any claims AGAINST the words that come from the bible...that are usually ignored.

The reason that there are so many denominations is because we can't all agree on which scriptures to ignore. But what if there was a way to harmonize ALL the scriptures into a unity of purpose whose Author is God?

Unheard of? Up to this point...yes.

 

[APAK]

You have it exactly backward. I'm dealing with spoiled and defiant sinners...the outer man ego...that are unable to read the bible and hear any kind of logic...even plain words...if they clash with their dogmatic beliefs. Lizbeth is a case in point...as hard headed as can be...even when faced with obvious truth from multiple facets of the bible.

And I'm not condemning in the slightest...look deeper than your own ego and receive correction. The more you resist the truth the more you will become "offended" with a faux outrage. I'm not you...and you don't know anything about me...so all your conclusions come from you... because you are comparing your own motivations with mine.

So I'm not dealing with a disciple or an inner person seeking truth. No, I'm dealing with a religious spirit ingrained and enforced by the flesh. Using the bible to sound clever...but having no life or truth.

So then I'm extremely patient to even reply to such obstinacy. I do so for the sake of others. I'm very easy to entreat..but when someone twists the truth so blatantly...avoiding the text and twisting its meaning...I point that out. Light exposes darkness...or its not light.

So Apak...have you read Isaiah? Did you do the comparison between Testaments? I say this because the reading skills here are very poor.

When I see honesty...I see a way to speak beyond the religious ideological framework that shuts out the truth in some here.

Are you involved in the discussion or is this a drive-by attack on my person as you are wont to do?

I would not be so sure Epi. I think you over-rate yourself myself. If some one is defiant in Christ then why do you become the same, in kind? If you are called to send an important message then why is this message not sent in love and patience, many times? Those in Christ are from all walks in Christ, pun intended. Can you not discern and adjust your speech to their level of knowledge and length of time of their walk, without responding at the same ugly tone, of dominance, many times. How can then these respond in understanding and trust?

It's yours to work out and not mine in this case. I will support as other do in the main....giving you the benefit of our doubts.

In love always, APAK

 

[Lizbeth]

@Episkopos Epi, you keeping opening the door for this type of reply... I must tell you what I keep seeing, again. This is truth I bring from my spirit....I did not want to, although I was compelled to do this.

Liz, it's a shame that Epi is yet again defiant, without either improving or gently correcting your words if he thinks they are incorrect. This can produce edification and mutual understanding. Unfortunately, he continues to increase and maintain strife within the Body. It serves no useful purpose, only to inflate his own ego I'm afraid. And he is usually wrong in his views anyway, also of my opinion.

Just reread his first part of his reply to you...
He quoted Isaiah and by deliberately not revealing the words of that particular scripture, that would convey some concern for your view. And he really is not concerned in what you say at all, anyway. And then, as usual, he attacks with inflammatorily broad brushing words to separate who he considers his usual serfs of ignorance, of his manor, or in this thread of his, in this case.

Look how he replied again...
----------------------quote-------------
Read Isaiah 61:1 Does it say that Jesus came to forgive sins? People want unconditional forgiveness based on lip service and religious beliefs. But people will be judged for what they did. If they lied about God they will be rejected from the kingdom. Yet people will wipe their mouths and say...we have done no iniquity. The condemnation of these is just.

You are not used to hearing he gospel. You are not used to hearing the words from the Lord...just man-made interpretations that misrepresent God and the gospel.

The evangelical scheme is that God is big and mean...and everyone needs for Jesus to protect them from big ole mean God.

That is a total fiction ...God is love, and He loved the world. God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself.

You have not yet figured out how deep you are invested in fables."

---------------------end quote---------------------

'See' how he immediately he condemns and accuses you like a child seeking revenge? To you and others as part of the unenlightened...

He said: People want unconditional forgiveness based on lip service and religious beliefs. You are not used to hearing he gospel. You are not used to hearing the words from the Lord...just man-made interpretations that misrepresent God and the gospel.
The evangelical scheme is that God is big and mean

-And then some folks actually encourage him and these type of words with a 'like' or a 'love' .....astonishing-----------------------------

The Time of the Lord's Grace.....
(Isa 61:1) The Spirit of the Lord Yahweh is on me; because Yahweh has anointed me to preach good news to the humble. He has sent me to bind up the broken hearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and release to those who are bound;

Now where is the works judgement part in Isaiah 61:1? It is not there at all. Epi is too focused on another thought completely.

Now if Epi was heartfelt for your concern regarding the gospel in which Christ came to atone for our sin, to redeem us, to save us, by shedding his blood in his death, and in his resurrection; and therefore caused the opening of the 'flood gates' for one to have their sins forgiven, he would have said so. His heart was not there to do this imo.

And he also could have used Isaiah 61: 1 to actually support your points, in why they are critical to your salvation, that Christ ultimately went to the Cross, for you and him. To come to God with contrite heart and with saving faith for the forgiveness of sin. And in Isaiah 61:1 it was foretold, about the gospel of salvation of forgiveness of sin and by this act of self sacrifice, by the Son of God, of his Father, YHWH.

And when you quoted Mat 26:28 "This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins." I readily understood it. And it supports Isa 61:1 entirely. In Isaiah, it does not not spell out the words of Mat 26:28 although in spirit and intent it definitely does. And even your other verse support this same thought.


So, why is Epi so defiant, and how long can he keep this defiance up against the Body...? He is the only one that can answer that..not you or I.
I pray for you Epi that you see a way to still show your doctrine, in love and patience, with kinder words for true concern toward others...amen

Amen, I agree..

 

[Lizbeth]

For those who want to engage in an actual discussion instead of more ad-hominen fluff...please listen to the video and comment on what is actually said...using time stamps if the point needs clarification. Please provide more than religious opinions...but use the word to back up any claims AGAINST the words that come from the bible...that are usually ignored.

The reason that there are so many denominations is because we can't all agree on which scriptures to ignore. But what if there was a way to harmonize ALL the scriptures into a unity of purpose whose Author is God?

Unheard of? Up to this point...yes.

That's a strange request, when I just brought a bunch of scrips addressing some things you spoke of in your video, that you are ignoring. But not really ignoring, since you did REACT with a belittling and sarcastic personal attack as you usually do when someone brings scriptures that show you to be wrong about anything.

Anyhow goodbye, I'm not staying to argue just wanted to bring those scrips in case they might be helpful to anyone....showing that binding and loosing are talking about forgiveness. Atonement too.

 

[Episkopos]

I would not be so sure Epi. I think you over-rate yourself myself. If some one is defiant in Christ then why do you become the same, in kind? If you are called to send an important message then why is this message not sent in love and patience, many times?

it is. I go to a LOT of trouble to present my message to rich spoiled Westerners who, for the most part are not serious about God's word at all. NO fear of the Lord, no wisdom, no understanding and very little knowledge. These put their trust in man-made churches and human interpretations and translations.

Those in Christ are from all walks in Christ, pun intended.

There are many levels of maturity and understanding. But a real seeker will acknowledge when something hits home...something that goes deeper than their own indoctrination. But, unfortunately the nature of indoctrination is that common sense is thrown out. Reading skills are thrown out.

There is NO reasoning or discussing with people of another spirit.

Can you not discern and adjust your speech to their level of knowledge and length of time of their walk, without responding at the same ugly tone, of dominance, many times. How can then these respond in understanding and trust?

How did Jesus adjust His tone with the Pharisees? Was it Jesus' fault that He was crucified by religious imposters?

It's yours to work out and not mine in this case. I will support as other do in the main....giving you the benefit of our doubts.

In love always, APAK

I never understand your vacillations. Do you react in the ego and then back off? Knowing this why don't you wait before you post and not react? I don't trust your way of pretending you are gentler than you are. I see your inner wolf. Maybe you don't want that wolf to come out...but it does.