Misunderstandings about hearing the Lord
- Thread starter Karl Peters
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How could you possible agree?
If I speak to another person, I open my mouth and produce sound waves!
That is how all people speak!
Now someone might draw a picture, but that is not them speaking but rather is them drawing1
So the Lord could give you a vision, but that is not Him speaking to that you are hearing with your spiritual ears, but that is Him giving you a vision, and He does also give us eyes (spiritual eyes) along with ears (spiritual ears). Indeed, have we never picked up a scent (spiritual scent) with our spiritual senses?
The Lord made the heavens then the earth and so we have a physical realm that has things that are similar to the things in the spiritual realm - or am I getting to far advanced for some to understand?
Heb 5:14 But solid food is for the mature, who because of practice have their senses trained to discern good and evil.
Hearing is not seeing! Seeing is not smelling! A drawing is not something you hear. And so on!
So why do we insists that we hear God in many ways? It just doesn't make sense, does it?
So it is true. I am the exception that proves the rule! If I am lost, doesn't happen often as I seem to have a great sense of direction, I do stop and ask for directions from someone.
Q. Why does it take a million sperm to fertilize one egg?
A. Because they won't ask for directions.
St. SteVen
Well-Known Member
We understand that it doesn't make sense to you.
Is your personal experience and understanding superior to ours for some reason?
Maybe what you know to be true for you isn't necessarily true for everyone.
Is that possible?
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If I am listening to our Lord Jesus Christ and hearing Him everyday, like I am explaining, but you are not then indeed my personal experiences with Him is far exceeds yours!!!!
It is not even close!!!
Never-the-less, He has asked me to get people, like you, to start seeking Him as the Great I Am, Word of God, and KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS - and all this is explained in the person experiences of those who also wrote the Bible and also told you to seek Him and listen to Him!!
If you indeed listen to the LORD OF LORDS - then you would rejoice when others testify about everyone being able to seek Him and find HIm, instead of doubling down on your rebellion!!
And BTW - Jesus Christ is the Truth!! And He is for everyone - even you if you actually decide to seek Him!! That is what I have been saying, but is not what you are thinking and writing!!
Therefore, your sarcastic statement about "you know to be true isn't necessarily true for everyone" is a completely wrong statement!!
He Jesus Christ - is true for everyone!!! But you don't listen to Him otherwise you would have understanding that He is the Truth and is for everyone!!
Therefore your understanding that He is not the Truth, that He will not speak to you (or anyone) if you/they seek Him, and your not actually seeking Him according to that false belief, does not make sense to me simply because it does not make sense PERIOD!!!
Is 30:8 - 12 Now go, write it on a tablet before them
And inscribe it on a scroll,
That it may serve in the time to come
As a witness forever. For this is a rebellious people, false sons,
Sons who refuse to listen
To the instruction of the LORD;
Who say to the seers, “You must not see visions”;
And to the prophets, “You must not prophesy to us what is right,
Speak to us pleasant words,
Prophesy illusions.
“Get out of the way, turn aside from the path,
Let us hear no more about the Holy One of Israel.”
Therefore thus says the Holy One of Israel,
“Since you have rejected this word
And have put your trust in oppression and guile, and have relied on them,
Too many Christian like to say that they would listen to Isaiah in his time, but he was just telling you to listen to the Lord then, and writing it down per the Lord, to tell you what I am telling you Today.
So go ahead - say "Let us hear no more about the Holy One of Israel and think to yourself that you have not rejected listening to the Lord and turn to putting your trust in oppression and guile. Those spirits are no good.
And what is amazing to me; Is that He still longs to have compassion on you and He waits for you to actually turn to Him with intent to listen to Him!! He does the same for me, even a dozen different times a day. He is just waiting there in order to be able to talk back and forth with you, but you don't accept that - so then come back and get upset with anyone advising you to actually seek Him listen to Him. The testimonies about Him you despise. And so you are like your fathers before you.
What finally happened to Isaiah?
Those who did not want to hear about the Holy One of Israel, and listen to the words of God that He has for them personally, went after him, didn't they. And the message that He wants me bringing is no different than the message he had Isaiah bring then!! And it is just about listening to Him personally, and His people not being willing to do that!!
Is 1:2 Listen, O heavens, and hear, O earth;
For the LORD speaks,
“Sons I have reared and brought up,
But they have revolted against Me.
Is 1:18 “Come now, and let us reason together,”
Says the LORD,
“Though your sins are as scarlet,
They will be as white as snow;
Though they are red like crimson,
They will be like wool.
Is 28:12 He who said to them, “Here is rest, give rest to the weary,”
And, “Here is repose,” but they would not listen.
Ps 81:15 “Those who hate the LORD would pretend obedience to Him,
And their time of punishment would be forever.
Of course I too am a person. And sometime the Lord askes me to do something that I don't want to do. So what should I do? I talk to Him about it, when I am smart, and I reason with Him, and it turns out that He is very reasonable. So sometimes He gives me something else that I am willing to do for Him, because He gave us freewill and freedom in Him. But our freedom has to be in Him, meaning we have to be listening to Him, talking to Him, reasoning with Him!
And yet even pointing that out will get people thinking I am wrong to say that. Yet that is because they don't believe the Great I Am is Great and the I Am, who wills to talk to them but they don't will to listen to Him! Their understanding is a miss - and at some point there pretending to listen and thus pretending obedience will cost them!
As you can see and I knew what his reply would be before he posted above this, his understanding is far superior because he has it in his head that it is. He doesn't understand that the Lord speaks to everyone differently and that some, like me, hear him only through the Bible.
He believes that his way is the only way and all of us that don't do it his way have a subpar relationship.
Karl has been espousing this for years now. I first encountered it on christianforums.com. Then christianforums.net. What he says here is the same thing he said at the other two places.
So many others have explained to him that everyone's walk is different and God speaks to everyone differently and through the Bible for some. He doesn't listen and just keeps going with the same thing over and over.
I sense a spirit of pride in his posts and have called him out on it, but he denies it.
Look people - we are told to preach the Word of God and that to mean we hear words from Him and those near us, even in our mouths and hearts, because the Holy Spirit speaks to our spirit!
So what happens to the person who say they hear from God in many ways - but not in their hearts and mouth, and not in words but in feelings, in the Bible - and they say that God talks to them by their looking at the mountains, stars, and perhaps the cards? Maybe they say they know the Lord because He did a miracle in their life? Of perhaps they see the coincidences that happen in their life.
Did not Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon, get a dream from God? So did he hear from God? Was that not God speaking to Him?
No, it was not!!! He still had to have Daniel hear from the Lord and give him an interpretation, didn't he?
So does God communicate to people with dreams? Yes He does! But does that mean they hear from Him? No it does not!!
Belshazzar the king held a great feast for a thousand of his nobles, and they saw the writing on the wall from the "the fingers of a man’s hand", but did reading the writing written by a man's hand connected to God mean that they were hearing from God? No it did not! Again Daniel had to be called to interpret what was written!! And the interpretation was "you have been weighed on the scales and found deficient"
So will reading the writing in the Bible and thinking that is hearing from God save you? No it will not! That is not hearing from His Word, Jesus Christ!! If you think so you will be found "deficient". You need to be hearing words from Him via His Holy Spirit personally speaking to you, and so the Word of God we preach is found in your heart and usually first even coming out your mouth! And that is the Word of God we are preaching - not reading our Bible! But read you Bible and then talk to Him about it and listen to the Word of God we are preaching!
And people like looking at the stars. I know I do. I like reading about the cosmos - not astrology but astronomy. It is amazing to think about the vastness of God's creation. But thinking that looking at the beauty and vastness of God's creation is Him actually speaking to you is just wrong!! Even if it is astronomy or astrology - neither are God speaking to you!! He has a voice and He uses it. He voice comes with His words through His Holy Spirit, and if we use and practice using out spiritual ears, we can get to know Him, reason with Him, talk back and forth with Him, and truly come to know Him! And hearing words from Him is what give us faith that He is there!!
So the preacher saying God speaks to us in many ways is wrong. He does communicate with us in many ways. And there are many more ways that we can figure out that a God must exist. But getting to know Him and believing and trusting in Him comes from spending time talking back and forth with Him!! Go reason (talk back and forth with Him) and you will understand what I am telling you, and what those like Isaiah were telling you also!
Really and truly get to know Him!! He is indeed standing there at the door just knocking with His voice, hoping you will repent of your thinking and turn to His words for you personally!! But who believe this? I tell you that it is those who spend time actually talking back and forth and no others!! His sheep hear His voice! It is a voice - a spiritual voice but a voice what speaks words if we pay attention! We can test to make sure it is Him, by asking if Jesus Christ came in the flesh (1 Jn 4:1-3), but to use that test you have to hear words with your spiritual ears! Reading the Bible, or looking and the stars does not tell you. And Satan with His dark forces can give dreams also! What are nightmares, if not torment?
It is so easy to explain - just seek Jesus Christ and listen to what He says! But if a person does not practice listening to Him it takes a lot of words and is almost impossible to get through to them. They have to have just a small speck of faith somewhere in them, so they just start to try to speak and listen to Him. But that is enough for a start!
So what happens to the person who say they hear from God in many ways - but not in their hearts and mouth, and not in words but in feelings, in the Bible - and they say that God talks to them by their looking at the mountains, stars, and perhaps the cards? Maybe they say they know the Lord because He did a miracle in their life? Of perhaps they see the coincidences that happen in their life.
Did not Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon, get a dream from God? So did he hear from God? Was that not God speaking to Him?
No, it was not!!! He still had to have Daniel hear from the Lord and give him an interpretation, didn't he?
So does God communicate to people with dreams? Yes He does! But does that mean they hear from Him? No it does not!!
Belshazzar the king held a great feast for a thousand of his nobles, and they saw the writing on the wall from the "the fingers of a man’s hand", but did reading the writing written by a man's hand connected to God mean that they were hearing from God? No it did not! Again Daniel had to be called to interpret what was written!! And the interpretation was "you have been weighed on the scales and found deficient"
So will reading the writing in the Bible and thinking that is hearing from God save you? No it will not! That is not hearing from His Word, Jesus Christ!! If you think so you will be found "deficient". You need to be hearing words from Him via His Holy Spirit personally speaking to you, and so the Word of God we preach is found in your heart and usually first even coming out your mouth! And that is the Word of God we are preaching - not reading our Bible! But read you Bible and then talk to Him about it and listen to the Word of God we are preaching!
And people like looking at the stars. I know I do. I like reading about the cosmos - not astrology but astronomy. It is amazing to think about the vastness of God's creation. But thinking that looking at the beauty and vastness of God's creation is Him actually speaking to you is just wrong!! Even if it is astronomy or astrology - neither are God speaking to you!! He has a voice and He uses it. He voice comes with His words through His Holy Spirit, and if we use and practice using out spiritual ears, we can get to know Him, reason with Him, talk back and forth with Him, and truly come to know Him! And hearing words from Him is what give us faith that He is there!!
So the preacher saying God speaks to us in many ways is wrong. He does communicate with us in many ways. And there are many more ways that we can figure out that a God must exist. But getting to know Him and believing and trusting in Him comes from spending time talking back and forth with Him!! Go reason (talk back and forth with Him) and you will understand what I am telling you, and what those like Isaiah were telling you also!
Really and truly get to know Him!! He is indeed standing there at the door just knocking with His voice, hoping you will repent of your thinking and turn to His words for you personally!! But who believe this? I tell you that it is those who spend time actually talking back and forth and no others!! His sheep hear His voice! It is a voice - a spiritual voice but a voice what speaks words if we pay attention! We can test to make sure it is Him, by asking if Jesus Christ came in the flesh (1 Jn 4:1-3), but to use that test you have to hear words with your spiritual ears! Reading the Bible, or looking and the stars does not tell you. And Satan with His dark forces can give dreams also! What are nightmares, if not torment?
It is so easy to explain - just seek Jesus Christ and listen to what He says! But if a person does not practice listening to Him it takes a lot of words and is almost impossible to get through to them. They have to have just a small speck of faith somewhere in them, so they just start to try to speak and listen to Him. But that is enough for a start!
I hear from the Lord. Just not the same way you do and you know what, that's okay. I am just as saved as you are.
You may not understand that everyone hears from Him in different ways, but we who know do.
You keep hearing from Him your way and let Him speak to us how He has been speaking to us before you came along.
Oh - you are soooooooooooo wrong!!
You still don't understand because you don't know Understanding!!
It is not my understanding that is superior, as I have pointed out every time!! It is the understanding of Jesus Christ that is superior, and so is why I keep telling you unbelievers to seek Him and listen to Him!!
But because you don't believe in Him I can tell you to listen to Him and you can believe it possible!!
And that tends to also show up by your seeking approval of other people!
So I can testify about Him, but can you even accept a straight forward testimony about Him?
Jn 3:11 “Truly, truly, I say to you, we speak of what we know and testify of what we have seen, and you do not accept our testimony.
I was talking to the Lord one day at one of my favority fast food places 'Del Taco'. And I was talking back and forth with the Lord and He was telling me things, like normal. And one of the things He told me I like and remembered to write down later when I got home. He told me, "UNDERSTANDING IS UNDERSTANDING I AM UNDERSTANDING! UNDERSTAND?"
Now because I talk to Him, I really do understand that He is Understanding, not me!! But you don't understand that so your thinking was " I knew what his reply would be before he posted above this, his understanding is far superior because he has it in his head that it is. He doesn't understand that the Lord speaks to everyone differently and that some, like me, hear him only through the Bible."
So you don't understand that He is Understanding, because as the Word of God which is alive and active He can speak to you!!
But even your hearing Him speak to you does not make you Him!! So you are not Understanding, even after you have heard from Him! Your leaning on your own understanding is never ever going to get the job done!! And that is the misunderstanding I was referring to in the OP - it is your thinking that you and other people have the understanding, instead of Him!! So you seek other people for approval instead of actually seeking Him and what He has to say! And that is because you don't understand that He is Understanding!! You just don't believe in Him - or you would seek Him for what He has to say!!
Prov 7:4 Say to wisdom, “You are my sister,” And call understanding your intimate friend;
In the above proverb, the Holy Spirit is Wisdom, and Jesus Christ is understanding. He can and will explain that and other things in the Bible to you, but your leaning on your own understanding will not give you understanding (Him)!!
Oh I do understand and yes I do believe in Him.
You are the one without understanding. You are making God out to be small. I know He can talk to people. I believe that He talks to you, but He doesn't talk to everyone in the same way. He doesn't talk to me through the same means that He talks to you.
If you cannot understand that, I cannot help you.
I get it, you want everyone to have the same relationship with Him that you do because you feel what you have is the greatest and bestest. My relationship with Him is pretty great too. Him and I have a different relationship than you and Him. My relationship with Himbis working just fine as are so many others, who like me hear Him through the Bible.
Yes, I knew what you were going to say before you said it because we have been down this same trodden path before. I have seen many of your posts. You are very predictable. So, I understand far more than you think I do.
I'll leave this scripture right here:
"Where there is no counsel, the people fall; But in the multitude of counselors there is safety." Proverbs 11:14
The Lord once us to also listen to counsel from others.
If you saybine more time thatbI don't believe in Him I will report you to the mods for bearing false witness, which is both a sin and against the rules of the forum.
What do you mean not the same way I do???
Jn 6:63 “It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and are life.
The above verse describes the way I hear from the Lord!!
Now He certainly will talk to me about things different from what He talks to others about. When I was working in the Christian healing ministry He asked me to work in for five years, He we talked a lot about healing and He would often tell me that a person had a specific problem, and so I would ask them if that was the case. It always was, and usually was a lot worse than I imagined. But that was ministry and needs specific. But everyone who worked in the ministry, and we had about 40 people there, all heard from Him via His Holy Spirit.
Now He sometime gave us a vision, but that is seeing with our spiritual eyes and not hearing with our spiritual ears, right? And often He told me that He wanted me to bring up a verse - like I did above in this post. But the verse was not Him speaking to me, but Him telling me to use that verse was Him speaking to me and me hearing!
Reading with your physical eyes is not called hearing!!! And so hearing Him speak to you via His Holy Spirit which you pick up with your spiritual ears is not called seeing with your spiritual eyes. And Reading the Bible is done with our physical eyes not our spiritual eyes or spiritual ears!
So if you are saved - according to what is written in the Bible, the Holy Spirit is speaking the words Jesus Christ has for you!! Those words spoken from the Holy Spirit to your spirit, which are found in your heart and mouth, are what gives you life!!! Jesus as record we call the Bible, is correct! But your reading the record (the Bible) is not your hearing Him!!
Now there are people, too many, who ears are dull, because they don't practice using their spiritual senses!! They are not really qualified to be teaching someone, even if they have studied and gone through seminary school, because they are dull of hearing. That does not mean they don't wind up in prominent positions in the church. Perhaps the church didn't check with the Lord, or perhaps the Lord is going to gie them on the job training? So it is that I have seen many in the church who are dull of hearing, even standing behind the podium.
Heb 5:11,12 Concerning him we have much to say, and it is hard to explain, since you have become dull of hearing.
For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you have need again for someone to teach you the elementary principles of the oracles of God, and you have come to need milk and not solid food.
The big Christian church the Lord has me attend once had a man like that as the second most prominent pastor in the church. And the Lord had me doing things for Him with this man a few times. He was a very nice, friendly, very smart man, but he like to tell us that he pick up the Lord speaking to Him by getting an "unction"! "UNCTION", was how he described God speaking to him. So he didn't hear words but he just kind of got feelings!!
That is called being dull of hearing!!! And it was hard to get across to him because He always called the Bible the Word of God, because that is all he knew as coming from God in words! Now he really should have understood his problem better, because there was often with him a lady that he taught classes at church with. And she could hear the Lord in words really really well - better that me!! And He knew this, which was why he had her do so much of the teaching! Now she was qualified, but he needed to practice using his spiritual senses a lot more!! Because like you get good at playing the piano with practice, so too do we get better at hearing the Lord when we practice hearing from Him!!
Heb 5:12.14 For everyone who partakes only of milk is not accustomed to the word of righteousness, for he is an infant. But solid food is for the mature, who because of practice have their senses trained to discern good and evil.
So even this prominent pastor in this large Christian church was "an infant" spiritually speaking because he didn't practice using his spiritual senses!! And so it was that I asked the Lord about Him, especially because the Lord had me talking to Him about this issued. And the Lord told me that there were a number of reasons that He, the Lord, had put him in that position!! The man was smart, he was nice, he was faithful, he wanted the position and we choose our employees from those who apply, and He the Lord could bring him up to to the job and surround him with those He needed to make sure the job got done right!
So again - What do you mean not the same way I do???
You can ask the Lord and talk to Him about this, and should. If you insist, I will try and help you, but it is better to seek the Lord by faith and actually listen to Him. Maybe pray a bit that your hearing Him in words gets better? Still we need to be personally practicing hearing His small voice in words Today, and everyday call "Today".
BTW the verse ""Where there is no counsel, the people fall; But in the multitude of counselors there is safety." Proverbs 11:14
is a great verse but can be misunderstood!!
Our wonderful Counselor is the KING OF KINGS, Jesus Christ, right???
And as the King over the Kingdom of heaven, we also have access to ministering angels, right???
Heb 1:14 Are they not all ministering spirits, sent out to render service for the sake of those who will inherit salvation?
So, does the verse Proverbs 11:14 refer to people of the Lord and His Kingdom of God???
Jn 5:39 -41 You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; it is these that testify about Me;
and you are unwilling to come to Me so that you may have life.
“I do not receive glory from men;
It is nice to be able to talk to other people, but are they the ones really and truly qualified to give the Lord glory???
So then the verse (Prov 11:14) is not really about seeking men, even Christian men, but rather it is about seeking the Wonderful Counselor and His Kingdom!!
Yet how are we to hear the King and His Holy Spirit, along with the angels (ministering spirits) that our sent out to render service to us, if we don't hear with our spiritual ears??
We would be stuck with men trying to give Jesus Christ glory and He does not receive glory from men!!
It is enough that we preach The Word of God, and that to mean Jesus Christ and He wants to talk to people, and to preach the Kingdom of God, which is in our midst but is not of this world!!
As I figured.
You are right. It is misunderstood, but I'm not the one misunderstanding it.
Where did you get this? You tell us what we are told then proceed to put your own spin on it. Why did Jesus say the Scriptures are those which testify of Him and to search them? We have other people on this forum who say that God talks to them, prosperity preachers that say God speaks to them,that make prophecies that don't come true, but if that is true that God talks to them, then God stories to them.Someone on here thinks God talks to him about the NFL. These people all think they are in communion with the Lord. What is wrong with this picture?
The thing that doesn't change is scripture . Gen 1 is still Gen 1. The story of John baptizing Jesus is the same. I assume you first met Jesus in the Bible. Wouldn't it have been easier for Him to just pop in your bedroom and introduce Himself?
Do you know everything in the Bible? It is my experience that when read passages and later read the same passages, there is always something more there.
When Satan tempted Jesus, how did He respond? It is written
Hopefully, you are continuing to study the Bible. If you aren't, I think the rest is pride. You can tell all of us that we are all wrong and that God talks to you--sounds like pride to me
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St. SteVen
Well-Known Member
Thanks for stepping in to post to me and to Karl. I appreciate it.
I would hate to say on an open forum what I think the real problem is here.
/
Telling people that the Lord wants to and is able to talk to them is not my spin, but the Pharisees tried to tell Jesus He had a demon when it was their father who was the devil.
If you seek our Lord Jesus Christ you will find Him. If you are willing to listen to Him then He is willing to listen to you.. But you still have not sought Him or you would understand this. It is this reason (your refusal to listen to Him) which has causes you to call the orderly lines of text in the Bible, the Word of God, and not Him. And that has gotten you snared and taken captive, just like the Lord explained through Isaiah.
Is 28:12,13 He who said to them, “Here is rest, give rest to the weary,”
And, “Here is repose,” but they would not listen.
So the word of the LORD to them will be, “Order on order, order on order,
Line on line, line on line, A little here, a little there,”
That they may go and stumble backward, be broken, snared and taken captive.
There is no need to spin it. You are either going to start seeking Jesus Christ and listening to Him or you are not. And when you don't the word of the Lord to you will be the orderly lines of text you read a little here and there, because He is not the Word of God to you when you don't listen. Then indeed Satan will come alone and quote Scriptures to you to get you to serve Him, as a wolf in sheep's clothing.
And that explains why you write:
You are what is wrong - because the Lord speaks, and you don't listen.
Why would you think the Lord might not talk to someone about the NFL?
He might talk to someone else about the sewing.
And another about flying kites.
And so on - Do you not think that He does not care about us to be willing to talk to us about the things that interest us?
You don't understand that He loves us, and it shows in your conclusions. And you conclusion is that He is not someone who would just talk to us about the things we care about. How sad that is!!
If have a couple of kids and one like to talk to me about her child and her job as a teacher. So we talk about that. My other like to talk to me about his job as a college soccer coach, also his favorite premier league soccer team, and also about his child. So we talk about those things, and I love talking to my kids. But you conclude that God, even the child which was born to us and goes by the names of Mighty God and Everlasting Father, would not talk to us like a father???
It just shows you don't know Him!!!
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