Misunderstandings about hearing the Lord

[Ritajanice]

One thing I’ve learnt about hearing God’s voice.

Let go of a stubborn heart...your pride and your ego...amongst other things.

Of course the Holy Spirit had to get me to that place of understanding, then I was able to let go of the above...I’m not saying it doesn’t try and creep back in...oh but it does.

This time I recognise it much more quickly...Praise God for that...he brought me to recognising it.

I was in ignorance of it before.....but ..the Holy Spirit is in control...he allowed it...and I certainly learnt from it.

 

[St. SteVen]

Yes, I look forward to reading their testimonies on how they heard God’s voice.

Which obviously must line up with scripture...yes?

That sounds like a lot of work. - LOL

Do you actually need proof that ANYONE can hear God;s voice?

Was Saul of Tarsus born again before he heard God's voice on the road to Damascus? (nope)

/

 

[St. SteVen]

Nice testimony Praise the Lord!

Was I born again BEFORE I heard God's voice?
(according to my testimony) Nope.

/

 

[Karl Peters]

Why do you think k that this is what they are going to think?
What evidence do you have for believing this?

Experience!

Also this is how what they thought about Jesus Christ, as read in the Bible.

And these two things were already gone over in this thread, by me.

Why do you think persecution is promised?

The thing is that we are surrounded by spirits. There are more with us than against us, but there are plenty who are against us. If indeed on third of the angels fell, like many think and preach, then at least half a third of those around are part of the dark spiritual forces that we battle with, right?

So how is our discernment of spirits? Have we been shown by the Lord some of the basic ways they work? It is not that hard to see, is it?

Today we see how evil crossed the board with Israel and mutilated, raped, kidnapped, and even shot up and cut the heads off babies. Now we don't battle with flesh and blood, the people, but we do battle with dark evil spiritual forces of this world. So we understand that those people doing those acts had given into those evil spiritual forces, and in a massive way. So how should the Israelites respond? How should we respond?

The answer of course is to seek the Lord and do what He tells you to do. But we don't, and neither did they, the Israelites. If they had those people, even the people doing those acts, would not have been there at this time, because the Lord told them to take all the land He had given them. That is in the Bible, and the results of not obeying Him then are on display today.

My point is this: The first words He told me were, "Read Your Bible", and I did that, but there were parts of the Bible I really did not like. And God telling His people to wipe out the people in the promised land was something I really didn't like. It seemed like an act of Satan, not God, and it made me wonder if this Christ, who is the Word of God and thus God we hear from, is not really a demon or has a demon. I mean, what about Him telling king Saul to wipe out a group of people and then Saul's having mercy on some of them and even some of their animals gets Saul in trouble it God. It's the same thing, but what does it all mean?

It means that we people need to wipe out evil in our lives - which is to say we have to wipe out those dark spiritual forces in our lives, but they don't want that to happen. So what happens now:

When Israel goes about trying to defend itself from that evil, and tries to wipe out the Hama organization which promoted the evil, whom that group of people promoted, elected to be over them, and raised up their children to follow, we now call Israel the evil ones! We show no discernment of spirits!! And that is because we don't listen to the Lord. We wind up calling God and His chosen people evil, and what spirits did that come from?

In the same ways when I come on this forum and tell people to listen to Jesus Christ the Lord our God, there will be and are some who think I am listening to a demon, just like they thought about Jesus Christ. It happens. It usually comes across as someone saying that I need to test the spirit, which of course is correct. And I do spend time testing the spirits. So why did they not know that I spend time testing the spirits, is it not because they did not seek Jesus Christ and what He said and test the spirits themselves? Yes, that is the reason.

And this is shown because those people don't challenge me on what I said so we can discuss it, but only on that I said to seek Jesus Christ and His voice.

Now Windmillcharge, that is not exactly what you asked. You asked:

Why do you think k that this is what they are going to think?
What evidence do you have for believing this?

And I so I gave you the answer. So I am not saying you are one of them, but also realize that you will believe and understand better if you actually seek the Lord Jesus Christ with those questions and listen to His answer, because it happened to Him also, right? So we should study the Bible and ask Him about it, and you will find the reason for these things that happen today. Still, I am letting you know that if you seek Him and do what He says, there will be people who think you are the evil person because they don't seek Him. Persecution is promise and those people who kill and persecute you will think they are actually doing God a favor!

Jn 16:2 They will make you outcasts from the synagogue, but an hour is coming for everyone who kills you to think that he is offering service to God.



Indee

 

[St. SteVen]

Did you receive him into your heart?

Yes, I repeated the magic words according to the evangelical tradition. (tribalism)

How would a Catholic answer your question?
Or do you assume they are all lost?

/

 

[St. SteVen]

One thing I’ve learnt about hearing God’s voice.

Let go of a stubborn heart...your pride and your ego...amongst other things.

Let us know when that happens.

Is there pride and ego present in evangelical expectations? (yup) IMHO

/

 

[Karl Peters]

How did he ask you?

Oh soooooooo may ways and soooooooo often, that even your question shows that you should listen to Him more!!

Look, I will give you a couple of specific times below to answer your question, but it is better answered with these verses:

Heb 3:7 Therefore, just as the Holy Spirit says,
“TODAY IF YOU HEAR HIS VOICE,

Heb 3:15 while it is said,
“TODAY IF YOU HEAR HIS VOICE,
DO NOT HARDEN YOUR HEARTS, AS WHEN THEY PROVOKED ME.”

Heb 4:7 He again fixes a certain day, “Today,” saying through David after so long a time just as has been said before,
“TODAY IF YOU HEAR HIS VOICE,
DO NOT HARDEN YOUR HEARTS.”

Now there is a day in which to hear the Lord, and that day is "Today"... and if you hear Him what is He going to ask you to do, Today?

Heb 3:13 But encourage one another day after day, as long as it is still called “Today,” so that none of you will be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin.

So what day are we to hear from Him, and what day is He doing to tell us to encourage others to listen to Him, thereby also encouraging ourselves to listen to H[m???? It's today, right???

So the better question would have been "How Today did he ask you?"

Well Today, He again asked me to come to this Christian forum and trying to get/encourage His people to listen to Him!! He again did it after I sat down with Him and prayed the Lord's prayer with some addition and then listened to Him. Yet I promised some specific times that really meant a lot in those moments. Not that Him telling mean to tell people Today, doesn't mean a lot, but rather that He had specific times in the past where He gave me strong statements in strong ways that brought me to this hearing Him and preaching Him like I do now.

One, which I have told many times on this forum, was when I was in the bathroom one day and about to get in the shower. He started speaking to me, which was not a surprise, and He told me with the small voice of His, "Karl, I want you to preach the word but not as it is so often preached today. I want you to preach I AM The Word of God!" And when He said, "I AM" those words hit me with such power that I instantly fell toward the floor and had to catch myself on the cabinet and toilet on the way down.

Now it is one thing to hear that little small voice like I did Today, and another thing when He decides He wants to put some power behind what He says. Yes, He usually speaks softly, but He is still The Almighty God and will apply a little bit of power as needed to make a point.

Another time I remember well was when during that time in the morning when I pray the Lord's prayer with some additions, and then listen to Him, He asked me to specifically open my Bible up to Ezkiel 3. It is not unusually for Him to ask me to open up my Bible, nor even to a specific place, and have me read. He then usually has some comments to make about where I read. Yet that morning was unusually because as I was reading He was talking to me and He personalize to me much of what I was reading. He didn't say the exact same words in the Bible to me, but similar words and they were specifically to me.

It read:

Eze 4-10 Then He said to me, “Son of man, go to the house of Israel and speak with My words to them.
“For you are not being sent to a people of unintelligible speech or difficult language, but to the house of Israel,
nor to many peoples of unintelligible speech or difficult language, whose words you cannot understand. But I have sent you to them who should listen to you;
yet the house of Israel will not be willing to listen to you, since they are not willing to listen to Me. Surely the whole house of Israel is stubborn and obstinate.
“Behold, I have made your face as hard as their faces and your forehead as hard as their foreheads.
“Like emery harder than flint I have made your forehead. Do not be afraid of them or be dismayed before them, though they are a rebellious house.”
Moreover, He said to me, “Son of man, take into your heart all My words which I will speak to you and listen closely.

He told me, while I was reading the above, something like: 'Karl, I am not sending you to people who speak a foreign language, or difficult speech, but I am sending you to a people who should listen to you. But they will not be willing to listen to you because they are not willing to listen to me. They are a stubborn and obstinate people. So I have made your head as hard as there heads. Like emery harder that flint I have made your head. So do not be afraid of them or dismayed.

And He also went on to say that I need to listen to Him.

That is the message that He gave me, to listen to Him. It is the same message that the Father spoke from the mountain, " “This is My beloved Son, with whom I am well-pleased; listen to Him!” (Mat 17:5) It is the same message that Isaiah started out with. "Listen, O heavens, and hear, O earth; For the LORD speaks,“ (Is 1:2) It is the same message Moses commanded, “Hear, O Israel! The LORD is our God, the LORD is one!.... “These words, which I am commanding you today, shall be on your heart." ( Deut 6:4,6) And of course these are the words we encourage others to follow "Today", right?

So again, the better question is: ""How Today did he ask you?" - and it really is a question we need to be asking ourselves, right?

The work of God is that all should come to know the Son, right? So, the work He has for you Today, starts with each of us ourselves, and goes our to others Today, right?

Jn 6:29 Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.”

God has not changed, He still needs His people to listen to Him Today!! If we do we will do the work that He has for us to do, and of course that work will be to encourage us and others to listen to Him Today. So don't ask me, "How did he ask you? - but ask me "Today, how did he ask me?" That question shows you have understanding, and Jesus Christ is Understanding!!

Prov 7:4 Say to wisdom, “You are my sister,”
And call understanding your intimate friend;

We hear from Jesus Christ via His Holy Spirit, which goes by the name Wisdom, and through the Holy Spirit we get Understanding (Jesus Christ and His words for us, which are the words of God that He got from His Father/Knowledge) Some we get an intimate friendship with Jesus Christ/Understanding, via the Holy Spirit/Wisdom, and obtain access to the Father/Knowledge via our intimate friendship with Jesus Christ - right?

 

[Karl Peters]

That sounds like a lot of work. - LOL

Do you actually need proof that ANYONE can hear God;s voice?

Was Saul of Tarsus born again before he heard God's voice on the road to Damascus? (nope)

/

I would suggest to you that Saul was born again when he heard the voice of the Lord!

So I would suggest to you that you were born again when you too first heard the voice of the Lord!

You see, the words He speaks are the seed!!

Mark 4:16 “In a similar way these are the ones on whom seed was sown on the rocky places, who, when they hear the word, immediately receive it with joy;

That does not mean there is some growing needed, nor that the Kingdom of God in you can not die. Still it is written:

Jn 3:8 “The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”

So if you heard from the Spirit then you are part of the "everyone who is born of the Spirit.”

And if you are still hearing from the Spirit are you not also still growing in the Kingdom of God?


Mark 4:30-32 And He said, “How shall we picture the kingdom of God, or by what parable shall we present it?
“It is like a mustard seed, which, when sown upon the soil, though it is smaller than all the seeds that are upon the soil,
yet when it is sown, it grows up and becomes larger than all the garden plants and forms large branches; so that THE BIRDS OF THE AIR can NEST UNDER ITS SHADE.”

Therefore a person repents, and seeks the voice of the Lord by faith, though they might not think about it much, and then the Lord sends His Holy Spirit with His words (the seed) and if they decide to listen with faith (that belief that it is the Lord) they begin to grow in the Spirit/Kingdom of God. And they start talking to the King, who is Jesus Christ, and get to know Him and He them. And if you know a King you will certainly at some point (when you get some maturity) be shown the Kingdom of the King and get to know about the Kingdom. The angels (birds of the air) will guard you and minister to you.

Ps 91:11For He will give His angels charge concerning you, To guard you in all your ways.

Heb Are they not all ministering spirits, sent out to render service for the sake of those who will inherit salvation?

Yet it is for Him to bring along His children, and so we say "Listen to Him", and by that we grow. But perhaps it is how we look at it after we start hearing from Him? Is a baby a baby if it has not come out of the womb? Is a plant a plant before a leaf is seen above ground? Indeed, what is the argument that is being made? Is it an argument of the meaning of the words "born again"? Should be make it about semantics and the meaning of words, or should be just make it about hearing from Him?


1 Tim 6:3,4 If anyone advocates a different doctrine and does not agree with sound words, those of our Lord Jesus Christ, and with the doctrine conforming to godliness, he is conceited and understands nothing; but he has a morbid interest in controversial questions and disputes about words, out of which arise envy, strife, abusive language, evil suspicions,

Frankly, too many times we see and argument of what it means to be "Born Again". It means you hear the sound of the wind, according to what is written, and it that not clear that His sheep hear His voice! And that is the important thing, that we hear His voice and are learning from Him, right?

I mean - He spoke and some believed, and He is still there speaking, and so we can decide to listen to Him or not! The godly mean listens to God, and when he is not godly he does not listen. So we can choose to seek Him and listen to Him or not. We can choose to be godly and listen to God, or not. And the "morbid interest in controversial questions and disputes about words, should be left behind, right?

 

[Ritajanice]

/

That sounds like a lot of work. - LOL

Do you actually need proof that ANYONE can hear God;s voice?

Was Saul of Tarsus born again before he heard God's voice on the road to Damascus? (nope)

/

No one can prove God spoke to them.





Acts 91 Meanwhile, Saul was still breathing out murderous threats against the Lord's disciples. He went to the high priest2 and asked him for letters to the synagogues in Damascus, so that if he found any there who belonged to the Way, whether men or women, he might take them as prisoners to Jerusalem.3 As he neared Damascus on his journey, suddenly a light from heaven flashed around him.4 He fell to the ground and heard a voice say to him, "Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me?"5 "Who are you, Lord?" Saul asked. "I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting," he replied.6 "Now get up and go into the city, and you will be told what you must do."7 The men traveling with Saul stood there speechless; they heard the sound but did not see anyone.8 Saul got up from the ground, but when he opened his eyes he could see nothing. So they led him by the hand into Damascus.9 For three days he was blind, and did not eat or drink anything.

 

[Ritajanice]

Yes, I repeated the magic words according to the evangelical tradition. (tribalism)

How would a Catholic answer your question?
Or do you assume they are all lost?

/

Brother....if God planted that seed of Faith into your heart.

Then it will surely grow...as it was God who planted it.

 

[Ritajanice]

Yes, I repeated the magic words according to the evangelical tradition. (tribalism)

How would a Catholic answer your question?
Or do you assume they are all lost?

/

1 Corinthians 3:6-8​

6 I planted the seed in your hearts, and Apollos watered it, but it was God who made it grow.
7 It’s not important who does the planting, or who does the watering. What’s important is that God makes the seed grow.
8 The one who plants and the one who waters work together with the same purpose. And both will be rewarded for their own hard work.

 

[marks]

No one can prove God spoke to them.

I think you are right, at least for me, it's been completely personal, private, and who knows when someone is making up stories?

I don't think it's important, though. What does it matter one way or the other, compared to whether I'm living a life of faith and service. Actually, I think it's that life of faith and service rendered out of love that offers the best testimony of whether someone is hearing from God or nor.

Much love!

 

[Karl Peters]

Brother....if God planted that seed of Faith into your heart.

Then it will surely grow...as it was God who planted it.

The Sower of the seed parable indicates that is wrong.

He may know which seed He planted will grow, because He knows all things, but clearly not all seeds grew in the parable of the sower.

 

[Ritajanice]

The Sower of the seed parable indicates that is wrong.

He may know which seed He planted will grow, because He knows all things, but clearly not all seeds grew in the parable of the sower.

If God plants the seed in his child’s heart a Born Again....where he testifies with their spirit that they are a child of God/ Born Again ...then his seed will most definitely grow into a fruit bearing tree.

The fruit bearer is the Holy Spirit who indwells the heart/ Spirit of God’s child.
@Karl Peters

◄ Romans 8 ►

Berean Standard Bible Par ▾ Walking by the Spirit (Ezekiel 36:16–38; Galatians 5:16–26) 1Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.a2For in Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set youb free from the law of sin and death. 3For what the law was powerless to do in that it was weakened by the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful man, as an offering for sin.c He thus condemned sin in the flesh, 4so that the righteous standard of the law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5Those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh; but those who live according to the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit. 6The mind of the flesh is death, but the mind of the Spirit is life and peace,7because the mind of the flesh is hostile to God: It does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. 8Those controlled by the fleshd cannot please God. 9You, however, are controlled not by the flesh, but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ. 10But if Christ is in you, your body is dead because of sin, yet your spirit is alivee because of righteousness. 11And if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the deadf will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit, who lives in you. Heirs with Christ 12Therefore, brothers, we have an obligation, but it is not to the flesh, to live according to it. 13For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. 14For all who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God. 15For you did not receive a spirit of slavery that returns you to fear, but you received the Spirit of sonship, by whom we cry, “Abba! Father!” 16The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are God’s children. 17And if we are children, then we are heirs: heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ—if indeed we suffer with Him, so that we may also be glorified with Him. Future Glory (2 Corinthians 5:1–10) 18I consider that our present sufferings are not comparable to the glory that will be revealed in us. 19The creation waits in eager expectation for the revelation of the sons of God. 20For the creation was subjected to futility, not by its own will, but because of the One who subjected it, in hope 21that the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to decay and brought into the glorious freedom of the children of God. 22We know that the whole creation has been groaning together in the pains of childbirth until the present time. 23Not only that, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies. 24For in this hope we were saved; but hope that is seen is no hope at all. Who hopes for what he can already see? 25But if we hope for what we do not yet see, we wait for it patiently. 26In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. For we do not know how we ought to pray, but the Spirit Himself intercedes for us with groans too deep for words. 27And He who searches our hearts knows the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for the saints according to the will of God. God Works in All Things (Ephesians 1:3–14) 28And we know that God works all things together for the good of those who love Him, who are called according to His purpose. 29For those God foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brothers. 30And those He predestined, He also called; those He called, He also justified; those He justified, He also glorified. 31What then shall we say in response to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us? 32He who did not spare His own Son but gave Him up for us all, how will He not also, along with Him, freely give us all things? 33Who will bring any charge against God’s elect? It is God who justifies. 34Who is there to condemn us? For Christ Jesus, who died, and more than that was raised to life, is at the right hand of God—and He is interceding for us. More than Conquerors (Psalm 44:1–26) 35Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall trouble or distress or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword? 36As it is written: “For Your sake we face death all day long; we are considered as sheep to be slaughtered.”g 37No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him who loved us.38For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor principalities, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, 39neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

 

[Karl Peters]

I think you are right, at least for me, it's been completely personal, private, and who knows when someone is making up stories?

I don't think it's important, though. What does it matter one way or the other, compared to whether I'm living a life of faith and service. Actually, I think it's that life of faith and service rendered out of love that offers the best testimony of whether someone is hearing from God or nor.

Much love!

Yes - we live a life of faith, not knowing but believing.

That doesn't mean we don't get lots of proof, we do. But there is always the evil ones who come up with something that questions our belief, and it is still written that we must live by faith. So the Lord gave us a choose to believe in Him or not. So He put before us good and evil, right and wrong, and the ability to choose believe of not.

Still, the amount of proof I have of Him in incredible, but the proof others will have will not convince them. For example, I prayed in the name of Jesus Christ over a growth I had under my ear and it shrunk and disappeared in a few seconds. It know it because it happened to me, but the unbeliever does not now it and will not accept my testimony. Therefore God hides the proof to them who don't believe. but for the believer we get proof, on proof, on proof.

 

[Ritajanice]

I have NEVER doubted that I was Born Again...God’s Living Word was Loud and Clear..

My faith has kept on growing....which of course can only come from the Holy Spirit...who testified with my spirit many years ago that I am his child/ Born Again.

As I explained..imo/ belief....if God plants his Living word into your heart it will grow and blossom.

But..it ain’t no easy ride...

 

[Rockerduck]

I've said it before. if a Christian hasn't heard the Holy Spirit speak to them, they do not believe any Christian hears it. If a person doesn't speak in tongues, he doesn't believe anyone speaks in tongues. The Holy Spirit speaks to me, I have visions and dreams. When I've told some Christians this, I was called a false prophet and I asked what false. No answer. They just couldn't believe it.

 

[Ritajanice]

Still, the amount of proof I have of Him in incredible, but the proof others will have will not convince them. For example, I prayed in the name of Jesus Christ over a growth I had under my ear and it shrunk and disappeared in a few seconds. It know it because it happened to me, but the unbeliever does not now it and will not accept my testimony. Therefore God hides the proof to them who don't believe. but for the believer we get proof, on proof, on proof.

Please post scripture...these are your words...scripture please that states this, as it’s your testimony.

 

[Ritajanice]

I've said it before. if a Christian hasn't heard the Holy Spirit speak to them, they do not believe any Christian hears it. If a person doesn't speak in tongues, he doesn't believe anyone speaks in tongues. The Holy Spirit speaks to me, I have visions and dreams. When I've told some Christians this, I was called a false prophet and I asked what false. No answer. They just couldn't believe it.

How can you have visions and dreams...how does the Holy Spirit speak to you?

 

[Karl Peters]

If God plants the seed in his child’s heart a Born Again....where he testifies with their spirit that they are a child of God/ Born Again ...then his seed will most definitely grow into a fruit bearing tree.

The fruit bearer is the Holy Spirit who indwells the heart/ Spirit of God’s child.

To assume that means you have to explain the Sower parable from Mat 13:

“Hear then the parable of the Sower.
“When anyone hears the word of the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what has been sown in his heart. This is the one on whom seed was sown beside the road.
“The one on whom seed was sown on the rocky places, this is the man who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy;
yet he has no firm root in himself, but is only temporary, and when affliction or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he falls away.
“And the one on whom seed was sown among the thorns, this is the man who hears the word, and the worry of the world and the deceitfulness of wealth choke the word, and it becomes unfruitful.
“And the one on whom seed was sown on the good soil, this is the man who hears the word and understands it; who indeed bears fruit and brings forth, some a hundredfold, some sixty, and some thirty.”

It is clear that all the seed in this parable is "word of the kingdom" and we know the Jesus Christ is the King!
And is it just a clear that not all the seed (the word of the kingdom) results in the successful growth of the plant. Some even start to grow but die afterwards. You have to explain that or you are denying what is written, and that is what Jesus Christ said. And if we then are to believe the Bible and what Jesus Christ said is correct then we believe that you still have some learning to get. But that is Ok, because if we did hear from Him and are growing, that is part of the plan, right?

I am not suggesting that He does not know who is going to grow, or who are really His and part of His plan, but He didn't say something and it is not so, is it? So the Scriptures are good for reproof, and thus for taking to Him and actually hearing what He has to say about it. If your thinking does not match the Bible, then those are the best things to take to Him and listen.