Modern Prophets

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DNB

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Would you believe even with evidence or would you find some kind of explanation....

Sigh:
I know you don't think I hear from Him accurately....but it is difficult to say some of the things I hear and discern because it wouldn't be received.

5 profound prophesies He spoke through me came to pass. After my husband died I went off into a dark wilderness for many years. After returning it had been difficult getting back into fellowship and prayer with my Father and hear His voice...but that's in the past and I am back in fellowship with Him and I am listening...I have been obedient to speak what He has given me to say many times.....and they came to pass or were revealing of a past or current situation....I am not going to list all of them and some are too personal to mention...but I will share some...only as a testimony to Glorify God not myself......I don't need anyone's praise or attention...

Here are the 5 prophesies:
1984-Speak to my servant Ben...."the woman you are committing adultery with from the church is called, chosen and anointed for my purpose, repent and turn away from this sin unless My wrath shall come upon you and you shall not live"....he died in 1985....the woman is a missionary, singer and songwriter in Africa.

1985- move to Tulsa, Friday..."I want you to move to Tulsa....(if you want me to move Father you have to pay the way because I can't afford it)...Monday my boss offered me a position in Tulsa...company paid everything for me to move.

1989-2. What he intended for you will happen to him, Friday......"read Psalm 109...come Monday what he intended for you will happen to him...I will remove him from his position and you will take his place"...Monday he was fired and I was given his job.

1995- the corrupt leadership will be removed and a Godly company will take their place...."those in authority and leadership over you will be removed and I will transfer this company to a people who seek after me and who honor me, for the corruption of the present leaders have sown corrupt seeds and will reap a corrupt harvest."...in 1997 the stock holders tried to do a hostile takeover because of the loss of profits....in 1999 the company filed bankruptcy...in 2001 a company from Michigan bought the whole operation and the owners a Christians.

1996- pastor will be removed...."speak to my servant and say to him repent and turn away from this adultery and return back to your wife and newborn son and I will have mercy and forgive you and the church will grow, disobey and I will remove your candle and close these doors."....6 months later over half the congregation had left after learning of the affairs...and the ministry could not sustain itself financially and the doors were shut.

1998- last Christmas, June..."this will be the last Christmas you will share with your husband...(I prayed God would change His mind and heal him...but all He said was pray for his salvation)....pray for divine appointments of those who he will respect and listen to and will turn his heart back to me"....(I cried and cried but obeyed and asked that He would just let him go to sleep and not suffer)...June 25, 1999 I woke up and he was dead.
And there were other ones that were more edifying but after his death it all stopped.

Now I am back and having to exercise my faith and discipline myself to pray again...

That's my story.
I see. Yes, if it's all as you say it is, these are rather uncanny, that one must consider the option that they were revelations to you, from God.
Mind you, personal insights from God into one's own life, are common, I've never tended to critique this type of epiphany, as much. I think as Christians, we all have these perceived interventions and callings. Some are probably valid, others, I'm hesitant to define as inspired. Plus, you did go through a rather traumatic experience, this tends to invoke deep and hidden feelings and emotions, that can play as a double-edged sword. Hallucinations and unsoundness are common in depressed states.

But, my contention is more against the ones that are on a global or national scale. Clemens was claiming revelation on behalf of people that he did not know, and on such a large scale. He spoke vaguely and in a predictable and repetitive fashion.

My ultimate point H2S, is in the fact that you would buy into Clemen's superficial rhetoric, which to me, is revealing your predisposed propensity and desire to accept these things. That is, you're over-eager, and thus, anything is a viable prophecy to you. If God truly spoke to you, you would know the difference. In other words, I'd be more inclined to accept your testimony, if you didn't show such naiveté towards Clemen's prophecies. In that, your story was much more compelling than his, ...and yet, you think Clemen's was just as viable???

I hope that God is speaking to you, and that He's protecting you, and helping you to both edify and save others. As long as you're not too eager to have the gifts, and instead, that you desire the wisdom and power of the truth, more than the special attention.
 
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OzSpen

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Hi Oz,

I don't know if you saw this post . . .



I think that the other forms of prophecy are shown in their agreement with Scripture, and in the fruitfulness in the hearers. There is the discerning of spirits also.

For those who include predicting in their prophecy, that's where this thread comes in. Do they have predictions which came to pass, and and in the way that they said?

Much love!

marks,

Thanks for directing me to your previous post.

I'm not convinced NT prophecy is predictive for the following reasons, based on 1 Cor 14:
  • 'the one who prophesies speaks to people for their strengthening, encouraging and comfort' (14:3). Nothing is mentioned here about strengthening through prediction.
  • 'the one who prophesies edifies the church' (14:4). So prophetic utterances happened in the church gatherings for the church's edification.
  • 'what good will I be to you, unless I bring you some revelation or knowledge or prophecy or word of instruction?' (14:6). This seems to indicate prophecy is delivered as a 'revelation' or 'word' from God, but the emphasis is not on telling the future, but on building up of the church.
  • 'in the church I would rather speak five intelligible words to instruct others than ten thousand words in a tongue' (14:19). So prophecy is considered instruction by Paul.
  • 'if an unbeliever or an enquirer comes in while everyone is prophesying, they are convicted of sin and are brought under judgment by all, as the secrets of their hearts are laid bare. So they will fall down and worship God, exclaiming, 'God is really among you!"' (14:24-25). Thus, prophesy convicts the sinner and exposes the secrets of people's hearts.
  • Two or three prophets should speak, and the others should weigh carefully what is said. And if a revelation comes to someone who is sitting down, the first speaker should stop. For you can all prophesy in turn so that everyone may be instructed and encouraged' (14:29-31). Therefore, the nature of prophecy is such that a person can stop in the midst of the 'revelation' so that another prophetic utterance can be given. However, these prophecies must be 'weighed carefully' in the church gathering. There is no meaning to 'weigh carefully' unless it happens while people of the church are there to receive the judgment. Sadly, there is not accompanying instruction as to how church people are to carefully weigh a prophecy. I could expect that it included: (1) Nothing that contradicts the NT, and (2) Any statement about a revelation of what is happening in a person's life must be true.
  • C H Spurgeon told of a time at one of his meetings when

    Incident [from] the sermon at Exeter Hall, in which he suddenly broke off from his subject, and, pointing in a certain direction, said, “Young man, those gloves you are wearing have not been paid for; you have stolen them from you,’ employer.” At the close of the service, a young man, looking very pale and greatly agitated, came to the room which was used as a vestry, and begged for a private interview with Mr.Spurgeon. On being admitted, he placed a pair of gloves upon the table, and tearfully said, “It’s the first time I have robbed my master, and I will never do it again. You won’t expose me, sir, will you? It would kill my mother if she heard that I had become a thief.” The preacher had drawn the bow at a venture, but the arrow struck the target for which God intended it, and the startled hearer was, in that singular way, probably saved from committing a greater crime’ (C H Spurgeon Autobiography, vol 3, ch 60, p. 59)
  • 'Therefore, my brothers and sisters, be eager to prophesy, and do not forbid speaking in tongues. But everything should be done in a fitting and orderly way' (14:39-40).
The chaos that I see and hear in contemporary Pentecostal/Charismatic churches would be controlled if they followed Paul's instructions to the Corinthians.

Oz
 
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Heart2Soul

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I see. Yes, if it's all as you say it is, these are rather uncanny, that one must consider the option that they were revelations to you, from God.
Mind you, personal insights into one's own life, are common, I've never tended to critique this type of epiphany,as much. I think as Christians, we all have these perceived interventions and callings. Some are probably valid, others, I'm hesitant to define as inspired. Plus, you did go through a rather traumatic experience, this tends to invoke deep and hidden feelings and emotions, that can play as a double-edged sword. Hallucinations and unsoundness are common in depressed states.

But, my contention is more against the ones that are on a global or national scale. Clemens was claiming revelation on behalf of people that he did not know, and on such a large scale. He spoke vaguely and in a predictable and repetitive fashion.

My ultimate point is H2S, the fact that you would buy into Clemen's superficial rhetoric, to me, is revealing your propensity and desire to accept these things. That is, you're over-eager, and thus, anything is a viable prophecy to you. If God truly spoke to you, you would know the difference. In other words, I'd be more inclined to accept your testimony, if you didn't show such naiveté towards Clemen's prophecies. In that, your story was much more compelling than his, ...and yet, you don't think so???

I hope that God is speaking to you, and that He's protecting you, and helping you to both edify and save others. As long as you're not too eager to have the gifts, so that you desire the wisdom and power of the truth, more than the special attention.
I didn't have any revelations or prophesies from God after my husband's death. I will confess it was because I was angry with God for not healing him...so I quit talking to Him for awhile. But I am healed by the Grace of God and He has renewed my strength to once again be bold and speak when He tells me to.... even when knowing that there will be mockers and scorners to contend with...the most important part is to obey Him.
 
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Waiting on him

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I didn't have any revelations or prophesies from God after my husband's death. I will confess it was because I was angry with God for not healing him...so I quit talking to Him for awhile. But I am healed by the Grace of God and He has renewed my strength to once again be bold and speak when He tells me to.... even when knowing that there will be mockers and scorners to contend with...the most important part is to obey Him.
Was your husband a saved man?
 

Hidden In Him

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  • 'if an unbeliever or an enquirer comes in while everyone is prophesying, they are convicted of sin and are brought under judgment by all, as the secrets of their hearts are laid bare. So they will fall down and worship God, exclaiming, 'God is really among you!"' (14:24-25). Thus, prophesy convicts the sinner and exposes the secrets of people's hearts.
  • C H Spurgeon told of a time at one of his meetings... an Incident [from] the sermon at Exeter Hall, in which he suddenly broke off from his subject, and, pointing in a certain direction, said, “Young man, those gloves you are wearing have not been paid for; you have stolen them from you,’ employer.” At the close of the service, a young man, looking very pale and greatly agitated, came to the room which was used as a vestry, and begged for a private interview with Mr.Spurgeon. On being admitted, he placed a pair of gloves upon the table, and tearfully said, “It’s the first time I have robbed my master, and I will never do it again. You won’t expose me, sir, will you? It would kill my mother if she heard that I had become a thief.” The preacher had drawn the bow at a venture, but the arrow struck the target for which God intended it, and the startled hearer was, in that singular way, probably saved from committing a greater crime’ (C H Spurgeon Autobiography, vol 3, ch 60, p. 59)

Greetings Oz. I know this was directed to Marks, but I'd like discussing this with you if it's alright.

I think it does more than expose the secrets of the heart. As per your example of Spurgeon, it sometimes prophetically exposes what they are doing; things only God would know. This is the sort of thing that causes them to exclaim, "God is surely among you."

But let me ask you: What transition has taken place to where prophecy was predictive in the OT but no longer in the New?
 

DNB

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I didn't have any revelations or prophesies from God after my husband's death. I will confess it was because I was angry with God for not healing him...so I quit talking to Him for awhile. But I am healed by the Grace of God and He has renewed my strength to once again be bold and speak when He tells me to.... even when knowing that there will be mockers and scorners to contend with...the most important part is to obey Him.
Interesting H2S, like I said, I hope that your perception is correct, and God is working through you to help, and ultimately save and preserve others.

***New Flash*** H2S, I take back everything that I said, I just read the thread that you started cxalled 'God is in control: A Word from the Lord to those who will receive it' and I think that it's as bad as the Clemens guy. You said absolutely nothing revelatory, insightful or even useful. It was a bunch of predictable and rehashed rhetoric, that has always been used after every single trauma in history occurred (Tsunamis, earthquakes, Aids, WWII, recessions, etc..). nothing specific to our circumstances, day or age. I could've made that up on the spot, what you said.
And, I tell you, it was your remark 'all the glory to God' that made me even more suspicious. I question whether that is your sincere sentiment or not?
I am very sorry H2S, I like you a lot you seem very sweet, but this nonsense is just verging on offensive. I hope you're not just flaky and frivolous with your esteem of God, his power and wisdom?
 
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DNB

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marks,

Thanks for directing me to your previous post.

I'm not convinced NT prophecy is predictive for the following reasons, based on 1 Cor 14:
  • 'the one who prophesies speaks to people for their strengthening, encouraging and comfort' (14:3). Nothing is mentioned here about strengthening through prediction.
  • 'the one who prophesies edifies the church' (14:4). So prophetic utterances happened in the church gatherings for the church's edification.
  • 'what good will I be to you, unless I bring you some revelation or knowledge or prophecy or word of instruction?' (14:6). This seems to indicate prophecy is delivered as a 'revelation' or 'word' from God, but the emphasis is not on telling the future, but on building up of the church.
  • 'in the church I would rather speak five intelligible words to instruct others than ten thousand words in a tongue' (14:19). So prophecy is considered instruction by Paul.
  • 'if an unbeliever or an enquirer comes in while everyone is prophesying, they are convicted of sin and are brought under judgment by all, as the secrets of their hearts are laid bare. So they will fall down and worship God, exclaiming, 'God is really among you!"' (14:24-25). Thus, prophesy convicts the sinner and exposes the secrets of people's hearts.
  • Two or three prophets should speak, and the others should weigh carefully what is said. And if a revelation comes to someone who is sitting down, the first speaker should stop. For you can all prophesy in turn so that everyone may be instructed and encouraged' (14:29-31). Therefore, the nature of prophecy is such that a person can stop in the midst of the 'revelation' so that another prophetic utterance can be given. However, these prophecies must be 'weighed carefully' in the church gathering. There is no meaning to 'weigh carefully' unless it happens while people of the church are there to receive the judgment. Sadly, there is not accompanying instruction as to how church people are to carefully weigh a prophecy. I could expect that it included: (1) Nothing that contradicts the NT, and (2) Any statement about a revelation of what is happening in a person's life must be true.
  • C H Spurgeon told of a time at one of his meetings when

    Incident [from] the sermon at Exeter Hall, in which he suddenly broke off from his subject, and, pointing in a certain direction, said, “Young man, those gloves you are wearing have not been paid for; you have stolen them from you,’ employer.” At the close of the service, a young man, looking very pale and greatly agitated, came to the room which was used as a vestry, and begged for a private interview with Mr.Spurgeon. On being admitted, he placed a pair of gloves upon the table, and tearfully said, “It’s the first time I have robbed my master, and I will never do it again. You won’t expose me, sir, will you? It would kill my mother if she heard that I had become a thief.” The preacher had drawn the bow at a venture, but the arrow struck the target for which God intended it, and the startled hearer was, in that singular way, probably saved from committing a greater crime’ (C H Spurgeon Autobiography, vol 3, ch 60, p. 59)
  • 'Therefore, my brothers and sisters, be eager to prophesy, and do not forbid speaking in tongues. But everything should be done in a fitting and orderly way' (14:39-40).
The chaos that I see and hear in contemporary Pentecostal/Charismatic churches would be controlled if they followed Paul's instructions to the Corinthians.

Oz
Hi Aspen, yes, I do agree with the more personal and introspective approach to prophecy, as you described. That is, that it is not as much foreshadowing or apocalyptic, but more as an impartation of wisdom and insight in order to edify and enlighten. But, to me, what is of interest, are the accounts of the prophetical forecasting in Acts, where the prophets did reveal a future event that could only be invoked by an intervention from God.

Acts of the Apostles 21:7-11
21:7. When we had finished the voyage from Tyre, we arrived at Ptolemais; and we greeted the believers and stayed with them for one day. 8. The next day we left and came to Caesarea; and we went into the house of Philip the evangelist, one of the seven, and stayed with him. 9. He had four unmarried daughters who had the gift of prophecy. 10. While we were staying there for several days, a prophet named Agabus came down from Judea. 11. He came to us and took Paul's belt, bound his own feet and hands with it, and said, "Thus says the Holy Spirit, 'This is the way the Jews in Jerusalem will bind the man who owns this belt and will hand him over to the Gentiles.'"

Acts of the Apostles 11:27-28
11:27. At that time prophets came down from Jerusalem to Antioch. 28. One of them named Agabus stood up and predicted by the Spirit that there would be a severe famine over all the world; and this took place during the reign of Claudius.
 

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Well, I'm sorry, but that was a bit of an idle defense. You didn't justify your position, nor the grounds for God's approval. Now, of course, like you said, you do not owe me or anyone else an explanation, but it would be rather revealing and possibly useful, if you did offer as to why you feel Clement is inspired, whereas someone like Copeland or Hinn, for example, are not? That is, how do you discern God's Spirit from a false spirit?
...you're not going to say the transpiration of the prophecy, are you? His were too vague and generic, to even make a viable comparison to actual events.
Who is the clement that you speak of? :confused:
 

OzSpen

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Hi Oz,

I don't know if you saw this post . . .



I think that the other forms of prophecy are shown in their agreement with Scripture, and in the fruitfulness in the hearers. There is the discerning of spirits also.

For those who include predicting in their prophecy, that's where this thread comes in. Do they have predictions which came to pass, and and in the way that they said?

Much love!

marks,

I don't consider NT prophecy is predictive but is a word (revelation) given to an individual when the church gathers. Those prophecies must be judged as authentic and edifying. This conclusion is based on the Scriptures I provided in #123.

Oz
 
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lforrest

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I would love to see some of his prophecies...do you have any specific ones?

Kim Clement. He has a website and has recorded his meetings, there are also transcripts of prophecies he has given.
 

OzSpen

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Greetings Oz. I know this was directed to Marks, but I'd like discussing this with you if it's alright.

I think it does more than expose the secrets of the heart. As per your example of Spurgeon, it sometimes prophetically exposes what they are doing; things only God would know. This is the sort of thing that causes them to exclaim, "God is surely among you."

But let me ask you: What transition has taken place to where prophecy was predictive in the OT but no longer in the New?

HIH,

My understanding is that the 'transition' came about on the Day of Pentecost (see Acts 2:17-21).

However the supernatural events of Day of Pentecost regarding tongues and prophesy are quite different to 1 Cor 12-14.

Oz
 
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OzSpen

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Hi Aspen, yes, I do agree with the more personal and introspective approach to prophecy, as you described. That is, that it is not as much foreshadowing or apocalyptic, but more as an impartation of wisdom and insight in order to edify and enlighten. But, to me, what is of interest, are the accounts of the prophetical forecasting in Acts, where the prophets did reveal a future event that could only be invoked by an intervention from God.

Acts of the Apostles 21:7-11
21:7. When we had finished the voyage from Tyre, we arrived at Ptolemais; and we greeted the believers and stayed with them for one day. 8. The next day we left and came to Caesarea; and we went into the house of Philip the evangelist, one of the seven, and stayed with him. 9. He had four unmarried daughters who had the gift of prophecy. 10. While we were staying there for several days, a prophet named Agabus came down from Judea. 11. He came to us and took Paul's belt, bound his own feet and hands with it, and said, "Thus says the Holy Spirit, 'This is the way the Jews in Jerusalem will bind the man who owns this belt and will hand him over to the Gentiles.'"

Acts of the Apostles 11:27-28
11:27. At that time prophets came down from Jerusalem to Antioch. 28. One of them named Agabus stood up and predicted by the Spirit that there would be a severe famine over all the world; and this took place during the reign of Claudius.

DNBl,

Excellent examples of predictive prophecy in the planting of the early church. How is it that that emphasis is missing from 1 Cor 12-14?

Oz