Modernism is dead

[aspen]

We now live in a post-modern world. Fundamentalism and Atheism are antiquated - part of a failed age. The burning question raised by Modernists was 'Is there absolute truth?' That question has been answered - yes, there is absolute truth. The post-modernist question is 'can we know absolute truth?'

In this age, even CS Lewis' writings, which focus on proving that there is absolute truth appears out of date. Most people are spiritual, but they simply do not know who God is - they cannot seem to access absolute truth.

If Christianity gets stuck trying to prove the existence of absolute truth - we are going to miss most of the people who need the gospel.....and only be addressing other modernist holdovers like atheists.

We need to help people understand that their focus needs to be on Jesus - which means loving outwards - God and neighbor in order to remain in touch with where people are at at.

Objectivism, Secularism, the pursuit of wealth over relationships have all been found to be lacking - post modernist want more than the material world of Ayn Rand. Modernism led our parents to midlife crisis, WASP, humanism, and a serious lack of fulfillment from life and mainline religion.

We need to move forward, not backwards - reaching out to the lost with love not legislation.

 

[Rach1370]

If Christianity gets stuck trying to prove the existence of absolute truth - we are going to miss most of the people who need the gospel.....and only be addressing other modernist holdovers like atheists.

Hey Aspen. Could you perhaps go into this a bit more...I'm not sure what you're conveying here.
My first response to what I understand you saying is that we must prove truth! If there is not A truth, then anything could be true...a la Oprah....as long as it's 'true' for you, then it's fine! That's rubbish. We must know the God of the bible to be the true God or else our religion just becomes one more hidden in the many. And I believe that anyone considering Christianity, or even the ones who are blind-sided by it (thanks to the Spirit!) need to know that what they are putting their faith in IS the truth. What good is a Saviour that might be but a fable?
I would think that the 'gospel' is only good news as long as it's true! What do you think??

 

[dragonfly]

Hi aspen,

Post-modernism is dead, too. Intellectual arguments are just that. Removed from the real needs of real people.

The burning question raised by Modernists was 'Is there absolute truth?' That question has been answered - yes, there is absolute truth. The post-modernist question is 'can we know absolute truth?'

All that was skepticism for the sake of it - part of the onslaught against God's word which began after the Victorian revivals and WWI.

People do choose to live with their fears, guilt and sin through unbelief. It doesn't destroy them at the time, necessarily, which is another aspect of the deceptiveness of sin.

Fundamentalism and Atheism are antiquated - part of a failed age.

Fundamentalism has not changed and Atheism still has a following, so, what do you mean by 'part of a failed age'? The age did not collapse because of them.

What you may mean is, that after the intellectual community had flogged those horses to death, it looked around for something new to attack. Instead of attacking the obvious existence of God, it attacked the faculty He gave us for perceiving Him, slowly leading people away from trusting their own judgement - so they'd feel obliged to accept someone else's

This is the point of the discussion which this thread addresses:
American Public Education Now Merged With Soviet System

http://www.christianityboard.com/topic/16045-american-public-education-now-merged-with-soviet-system/


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=OPR3GlpQQJA What d'you think?

 

[HammerStone]

Interesting thoughts.

I don't know that either Fundamentalism nor Atheism are antiquated just yet. For instance, there are still numerous churches in the rural parts that boast Fundamentalist congregations and recent voting has shown the moral block of voters still alive and well in both the South and the West. Look at Santorum here in America - although I am careful to tie his relative success fully to his social stance - I think a great block of his momentum was his blue-collar message. (I also didn't use majority, because I don't know if there is a moral majority anymore.) Beyond that, there's a very large segment of Islam that continues to remain fundamentalist. Then you look at the Reason rally - a miserable and laughable failure - and New Atheism is purely dying as its architects make various foibles or simply aren't found convincing. I've seen Atheists attacking New Atheists for hostility and even a TED Talk that suggests Atheism adopt aspects of religion.

I think, if anything, there is a trend towards Moralistic Therapeutic Deism (MTD), as the phrase has been coined. What that means is we now have a society that is searching. So, in a sense, we agree that Modernism and Post-Modernism have been tried and found wanting. However, I think instead of settling at one or the other, it's a sort of both-and approach.

Polls still continue to show that here in the States (I'm going to go US-centric because I don't have as much knowledge of other cultures) that religion - belief in God - endures. However, it's a very agnostic belief in that God is only around to serve me when I need help - God's here for my good. There is an Atheistic element because God's not necessarily actively involved in daily life, and life certainly doesn't revolve around him. The religious element is maintained in that I can petition God for what I need, and he shows up like a faithful divine butler or personal trainer.

I think relativism has done it's damage. People don't seem to hold strong convictions in general. That's not to say some Christians (or whatever other group) don't hold strong ones, because clearly some do that. However, we (collectively) are almost afraid of absolutes due to our Post-Modern frame. So, we settle for MTD and a vague and ambiguous God that doesn't require too much work.

I saw the other day where an inscription from the Assyrian empire read that (paraphrasing) things were going to hell in a hand basket because children were unruly and not obeying their parents. We hear that these days so often, but I really do come back to this verse:

II Peter 3:3-4
First, be aware of this: Scoffers will come in the last days to scoff, living according to their own desires, saying, "Where is the promise of His coming? Ever since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they have been since the beginning of creation."

It's my opinion here, but based upon my own struggles/sin, as well as my observations of others, we are so intensely absorbed with self that we struggle with anything else. We really do currently live on our desires - be it stuff, prestige, or Facebook friends. The Atheistic element comes in verse 4 - we say that the world has been evil, this MTD God doesn't really intervene unless we ask for help, and so I'll just live in the moment and hopefully do enough good to get to heaven.

We really scoff at the notion of a God that requires anything of us. I don't mean "requires" in the Fundamentalist sense of good works like voting against gay marriage, but in the sense that the change we experience causes us to do righteous good things for Jesus. We struggle with doing uncomfortable things that aren't fun, at least initially. We evaluate the goodness of something as our own pleasure.

Maybe someone can run with these thoughts, I don't know. All hope is certainly not lost - we have Jesus!