Moratorium

[marks]

Ha! Tru dat...and very sad because that is how others will know we are His followers. Seems that command has flown out the window a loooong time ago. People, Christians sometimes especially can be cruel, sarcastic and downright nasty people so...we pray for them.

I seem to remember reading somewhere that you'll know the real ones by their love for each other.

But there are many cruel and proud people.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Yes we are. We are supposed to get along with each other regardless of our political persuasion. But Christians if all stripes can become very judgemental and divisive. I know an eastern orthodox believer that suffered greatly from southern baptists who attacked him for his beliefs.

I have seen evangelicals just relentlessly attacked for supporting Trump. Being called hypocrites non Christians etc by liberal Christians.

No one is exempt from this kind of attack. I think this may come to an end soon though, because the church of Christ is going to be under attack even further from the left and the left leaning believers will be swept along with the conservative ones. We are facing a spiritual battle and not just a political one. And the uber left is coming into power and no believer will be exempt from their attacks. Wickedness does not see political boundaries.

And my hope is this will drive believers together.

We need to be made complete in love. And this begins with understanding God's love for us.

Much love!

 

[Nancy]

I nominate Jesus as king.

And...I second that Truth but...it's already a reality, no? :)

 

[Nancy]

I seem to remember reading somewhere that you'll know the real ones by their love for each other.

But there are many cruel and proud people.

Much love!

Hmmmm...could it have been my signature??

 

[marks]

Hmmmm...could it have been my signature??

My settings are not showing signatures, but if this is yours, then, Yay!

Much love!

 

[historyb]

I am not sure it's not love. The problem lies in the fact that we see our Christianity as authentic and others Christianity as not, we do say they are Christians just not an authentic. The same for you guys, you see your Christianity as authentic and others Christianity as not, some of you do say we are Christians just not an authentic and others say we are not Christians at all.

 

[Nancy]

My settings are not showing signatures, but if this is yours, then, Yay!

Much love!

Yep, that's it!

John 13:35
"By this all will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another.”

 

[historyb]

Love is no squishy mushy acceptance and I hope no one here thinks that, love hurts sometimes, love means telling the truth. Now unfortunately many want to attack which is not good. I just wish those people realized there are more types of Christians then them

 

[Nancy]

Love is no squishy mushy acceptance and I hope no one here thinks that, love hurts sometimes, love means telling the truth. Now unfortunately many want to attack which is not good. I just wish those people realized there are more types of Christians then them

Agreed. The Agape kind of love to me is when one disagrees and is able to still exhibit kindness and patience with the other party. If there is true error of the important kind...meaning sin, salvation, Christ's divinity then...it is the Church's (us) duty TO point it out. And from there to not argue with the person if they come back snarky like. It should be to (IMO) pray for them, and kick the dust off your feet and keep moving, just like Christ did. This is the only way that I can see to keep the peace among us. Who will be the officiator as to what is error? Well, of course God's Word ultimately. Yet, there shouldn't be silly disputes about things like...pre\post\mid "rapture" or, dates and times, or "tongue" speaking. I see these as unnecessarily divisive but, hey...that's just me
I'm talking the main tenets of the faith.
:)

 

[marks]

Love is no squishy mushy acceptance and I hope no one here thinks that, love hurts sometimes, love means telling the truth. Now unfortunately many want to attack which is not good. I just wish those people realized there are more types of Christians then them

@Nancy

I believe we need to reach a unity of faith and of knowledge of the Son of God, in such a way that we will begin to build each other up in love, and that this means we stop being children. And that we won't be blown back and forth by all the different doctrines.

I don't believe that there are impossible obstacles to real unity. In fact I know there is a real unity that works this way. I don't believe that we have to have a complete agreement on our doctrines to have this unity.

Ephesians 4
1 I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation calling wherewith ye are called,
2 With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love;
3 Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.
(. . .)
13 Till we all come into the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:

Unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ.

We are to come to unity in the faith and the knowledge of the Son of God, and this will be to measure up to the "prime age of maturity" of the fullness of Christ.

Something I've come to pay attention to is how the Bible speaks of Jesus. I'm not saying I think this is in every instance, maybe it is through. Jesus to me speaks of the One Who knows me. Lord is the One Whom I obey. Christ is the One given to redeem us. The Son of Man is One of us. And the Son of God is Emmanuel, God in Christ reconciling the world to Himself.

Jesus said He didn't come to be served, but to serve. And He said that He never did anything on His Own, He said what the Father said, He did what the Father did. He came to give His life a ransom for many, and committed His Spirit into His Father's hands, and in this way showed us God's love, and purchased us back to God.

I offer this.

The unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, in measuring up to the stature of the fullness of Christ, means this.

We've come to understand Jesus' service to God, what Jesus began at His baptism. And we are trusting God in the same way Jesus did.

Philippians 2
3 Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves.
4 Look not every man on his own things, but every man also on the things of others.
5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

Who here still has a high opinion of themself?

When that's what we have - a high opinion of our self - that's what we serve, our high opinion.

Jesus became humble and obedient, for the bringing of a gift, and God help Him if He couldn't do it Himself! The best we can do, I think, is to remain convinced of our inability and remain in wonder over God's ability.

Working out our salvation, which is to perform what God is working into us, is directly linked to Jesus' humble obedience, and willingness to suffer loss of everything. Possessions, reputation, whatever. And trusting that God will do what is good.

All in God's desire to reconcile us back to Himself.

Satan tried to get Jesus to mess up the gift. "You being the Son of God, throw yourself down!" Man tried the same, "If You are the Son of God, come down!" Jesus simply endured in giving His gift of love. And God performed His wonderful work.

So are we serving others or serving ourselves? This is a key question. And have we reached the end of our self-reliance? Or have I still "got the stuff"?

I think that if we are giving ourselves for others, and trusting God to be the One working, in order to bring growth to God's people, this is the faith and knowledge of the Son of God. And being able to live this way consistently is measuring up to His stature. The fullness of Christ can be described in "Christ in you, the expectation of glory", "and the life I live, I live by the faith of the Son of God Who loved me, and gave Himself for me".

In living this way, in a non-reliance on myself, and reliance on Christ, trusting that He's actually here with me, and is active in my life in love, this is the way of the inner man, the righteous and holy new creation. Submitted to His Spirit and so living in love and gentleness and peaceableness and joy. Self controlled, and patient. And not hindering the work of the Holy Spirit through me, as He knows what you need, and how you will best receive it.

Much love!

 

[Nancy]

@Nancy

I believe we need to reach a unity of faith and of knowledge of the Son of God, in such a way that we will begin to build each other up in love, and that this means we stop being children. And that we won't be blown back and forth by all the different doctrines.

I don't believe that there are impossible obstacles to real unity. In fact I know there is a real unity that works this way. I don't believe that we have to have a complete agreement on our doctrines to have this unity.....

Much love!

Good post Marks,
And, yes...we are "no more children to be tossed about with every wind of doctrine". So, when I feel doubt trying to creep in when reading some things on here, it makes me want to pull away for a bit, and spend time with Him and His Word, alone. And of course, accompanied with much prayer for discernment. Then, after being built up in Him...I feel stronger and much less inclined to allow some posts to bother me. It's getting easier to avoid argument of any kind.

"When that's what we have - a high opinion of our self - that's what we serve, our high opinion."

For sure! If one has a high opinion of themselves, they serve themselves and become their own idols. Scripture tells us to:
"Do nothing from selfishness or empty conceit, but with humility consider one another as more important than yourselves;"
Philippians 2:3

"Be of the same mind toward one another; do not be haughty in mind, but associate with the lowly. Do not be wise in your own estimation."
Romans 12:16

"I don't believe that there are impossible obstacles to real unity. In fact I know there is a real unity that works this way. I don't believe that we have to have a complete agreement on our doctrines to have this unity."

I agree, neither do I think there are impossible obstacles to real unity, but until the "fullness"... tares, with wheat...
All of us, from all beliefs, need to move on when things go south in a thread. Shake off the dust and press on. That is what Jesus did...He did not argue, He gave His word and moved on. They heard, He continued on. What will they do with what He say's? :) He came to them in love, giving living Words, with all humility and and gentleness. Of course, not so gentle with the Pharisees, lol.



"13 Till we all come into the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulne"ss of Christ:"

WORD!!! And yes, "Till we come into the unity..."
"The fulness"! Meaning we are not there yet but..."till we"... :)
I also agree Marks, that it is possible for Christians to love one another despite petty doctrinal issues. We need to feast on the meat, on His Word...yes, some are still on milk and yes, some stay there. How much does one surrender? What we surrender to Him, leaves our hands open and empty for Him to fill with His goodness!

"So are we serving others or serving ourselves? This is a key question. And have we reached the end of our self-reliance? Or have I still "got the stuff"?"

For sure, we must reach the end of ourselves so He can replace our old nature with His own. But some continue to hold onto things and wonder why He is not answering some of their prayers, He CAN'T give you anything with your hands full!

"In living this way, in a non-reliance on myself, and reliance on Christ, trusting that He's actually here with me, and is active in my life in love, this is the way of the inner man, the righteous and holy new creation. Submitted to His Spirit and so living in love and gentleness and peaceableness and joy. Self controlled, and patient. And not hindering the work of the Holy Spirit through me, as He knows what you need, and how you will best receive it. "

Relying on Him brings about such peace in my life and, am so very grateful that He lifted the burdens. It is a whole new way of life all together! We have been so used to making our own decisions, our own way..."The way of man..." and always failing. "Acknowledge Him in all your way's and he will make your paths straight" Proverbs 3:6

"In living this way, in a non-reliance on myself, and reliance on Christ, trusting that He's actually here with me, and is active in my life in love, this is the way of the inner man, the righteous and holy new creation. Submitted to His Spirit and so living in love and gentleness and peaceableness and joy. Self controlled, and patient. And not hindering the work of the Holy Spirit through me, as He knows what you need, and how you will best receive it. "

He does indeed know our needs, and I love that He still wants us to ask Him :) It is a relief I've never known, to know we CAN rely on Him, every time...a never fail with God. But, unless one let's go, for real...I don't think they are experiencing "the peace that surpasses all understanding."

I've only truly started to understand and experience this peace when I ...let go...opened those clenched fists!!!

Good post brother,
In His love,
nancy

 

[historyb]

I believe we need to reach a unity of faith and of knowledge of the Son of God, in such a way that we will begin to build each other up in love, and that this means we stop being children. And that we won't be blown back and forth by all the different doctrines.

That is a nice thing in a fantasy land but not in reality. I am not an evangelical nor do I want to be and my doctrines just tossed aside, that I will not do just to have fake unity. Unity is not that important to me right doctrine is. I can't pretend to be united with evangelicals because I am not and never will be, been there done that. If we want to get along the solution is not to just throw away everything you believe in for some kumbaya moment that doesn't exist but to have others acknowledge our differences and stop with the constant attacks because we are not the same type of Christian as you.

 

[marks]

That is a nice thing in a fantasy land but not in reality. I am not an evangelical nor do I want to be and my doctrines just tossed aside, that I will not do just to have fake unity. Unity is not that important to me right doctrine is. I can't pretend to be united with evangelicals because I am not and never will be, been there done that. If we want to get along the solution is not to just throw away everything you believe in for some kumbaya moment that doesn't exist but to have others acknowledge our differences and stop with the constant attacks because we are not the same type of Christian as you.

What do you think the solution is?

Much love!

 

[historyb]

What do you think the solution is?

Much love!

I said it at the end of my paragraph :)

 

[marks]

I said it at the end of my paragraph :)

Maybe instead focusing what we share rather than what we don't?

Much love!

 

[historyb]

Maybe instead focusing what we share rather than what we don't?

Much love!

We need to acknowledge both or we are all pretending.

 

[marks]

We need to acknowledge both or we are all pretending.

I agree with you. And that's where I've been focusing my thinking on this.

We have core ideas that are exclusive from each other, and yet, we hold the most central idea the same, do we not? That Jesus died to save us from sin, and we can receive this salvation from Him, to know Him and live with Him. Is this not correct?

I've been coming the think that the unity we seek is not found in doctrinal agreement, but is found in having the right mind, the right heart. Let this mind be in you that was also in Christ Jesus.

I think that's how we reach the unity where we can go on to build each other up in love.

Much love!

 

[historyb]

We have core ideas that are exclusive from each other, and yet, we hold the most central idea the same, do we not? That Jesus died to save us from sin, and we can receive this salvation from Him, to know Him and live with Him. Is this not correct?

That's not all that maybe core to you but not me or others. My core involves the Eucharist and no Scripture alone on which I will not compromise. Evangelicals and Traditional Christians are really worlds apart in what is core.

 

[marks]

That's not all that maybe core to you but not me or others. My core involves the Eucharist and no Scripture alone on which I will not compromise. Evangelicals and Traditional Christians are really worlds apart in what is core.

OK, I understand, and respect your view. That is worlds apart.

For myself, this, in you, represents a saving faith in Christ, and I have no reason to not think of you as my brother. But I suppose then that you would not think of me as your brother, have never received the Eucharist. Is that correct?

Much love!

 

[marks]

That's not all that maybe core to you but not me or others. My core involves the Eucharist and no Scripture alone on which I will not compromise. Evangelicals and Traditional Christians are really worlds apart in what is core.

BTW . . . I'm not really sure what people mean by Evangelicals anymore, and don't really use that to describe myself.

Much love!