There are indeed. But I don't hide from them and refuse to interact with what they are claiming, but am willing to engage in their criticisms and answer their challenges...regardless of their motives and methods. The question ought not be, "are they nice people", but rather, "are they speaking the truth"?
mormons exposed.
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Yeah.... this thing is horrible skewed axe-grinding "information".
Who's hiding?
When you look up the word for hate in the original Greek, it means "to love less".
Which is the same conclusion that you might come to if you compare that scripture with the other scripture that speaks quite similarly.
But you do not need even look at that other scripture, if you understand the Greek meaning behind the word.
However, if you only go by the English, a comparison of scripture will bear out that Jesus meant "to love less" by the word hate in that scripture.
And yes, perfect means what it says.
If you consider Colossians 4:12 (kjv), you will see that perfect and complete are the goal of the faith.
You will see there that perfect does not mean "complete" otherwise Paul is being redundant in that verse.
Perfect, therefore, means "perfect".
Okay, so would you like to offer a refutation and a current church and/or personal understanding of that topic?
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
Jane is right. What good does it do to bash the Mormons? I have known Mormons most of my adult life and as a whole they are very religious and have an above average Christian demeanor. Freedom of beliefs.
Asking about their beliefs and doctrines doesn't curtail their freedom to believe those doctrines does it?
I do agree that there is a huge difference between bashing and asking questions-- and it's not a matter of punctuation. A person can bash perfectly well while ending sentences with a "?".
The core difference between the two is intent and what to you do with the information/answers: a person honestly seeking information will listen. A person who is bashing will ignore and just continue on their same preset spiel.
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There is benign "asking", and then there is "accusatory challenging and confrontation."
Keeping my response pithy here, feel free to ask for elaboration on any part. Same with any part of the Tanner's axe-grinding)
Earlier we talked about core beliefs and non-core/fringe beliefs. Every group has this dynamic. For LDS Christians, any possible history of the Father is very much in the non-core/fringe category. There's simply no solid doctrinal statements on the subject, nor is it actually discussed in LDS Christian church services. The grand total of two important speculative quotes that touch this subject are in context which is focusing on a different subject (man's potential to become one with the Father, through Christ's sacrifice). That's just not a lot to go off of.
On any given LDS Christian pew, you'll find folks with a whole variety of views on this speculative subject, all sitting together in communion. Zero of those folks have the view that you (a Creedal Christian) will have reading any of those speculations, because LDS Christians aren't Creedal Christians. To cross that bridge and explain these speculations that LDS Christians don't spend time in church services talking about, we first got to talk about a bunch of academic theology subjects that Creedal Christians don't spend time in church services talking about.
I've never known a JW closely. My only experience was when they used to come to our door. Like the Mormons, if I were not busy, I would always make time to visit with them. Unlike the Mormons, they seldom returned once they had talked with me. It seems that they had their agenda and expectations. When I fell outside the lines they had drawn they quickly ended the conversation leaving never to return.
Even so! The Bible is rich, but it can be and too often is not only misunderstood [I believe] but also misused. The leading of the Holy Spirit is essential to any serious believer.
I am about as far away from a creedal Christian as one can get. But Christianity is founded on one Man, the Son of God. We exalt Him, love Him, and revere him because He gave His life for us and continues to work in our lives granting us all that is essential to our gaining of eternal life. So when we have someone, eg Joseph Smith, chime along and make some fairly audacious claims re golden plates, Egyptian hieroglyphics, a book of Abraham etc, one must be excused for accepting such claims with a pinch of salt, and wondering how, without any real evidence, any church could be considered relevant when built on such a shaky foundation. His own declarations, and those of his compatriots, regardless of their popularity in the pews today, or lack thereof, must be brought into question considering he is designated a prophet, and the church he founded now comprising several million members. If he was a false prophet, them he does need to be exposed... If his understanding of the gospel was wrong, and the church he founded continuing in that error, then it is incumbent upon others to expose that error don't you thimk? Such discussions certainly should never be undertaken in a spirit of one upmanship or rancour. My concern for Mormons is that today's members do not really know or understand what the pioneers of their church actually believed and taught because only 'living prophets' are considered relevant. Are today's prophets tomorrow's heretics?
Playing games changes nothing. The original use of neither word was ever intended to convey what we expect the words to mean today.
This is likely a good thing which I suspect stems at least in part from the Boys Scouts of America a few years ago finally yielding to pressure to change from more traditional Christian policies with regard to LGTBQ members and leadership. You may correct me on this if I am error.
Yes, God is always leading people who will be led. As we all probably know, some will not be led. I point no fingers at anyone with this, but rather simply hope to remind sincere believers to keep spiritual eyes and ears open to Him so as not to go astray toward some wrong unity. Remember the tower of Babel!
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
Christianity is about a large body of differing religious beliefs. With thousands of Protestant beliefs, religious truths become a matter of perspectives. For example the Catholic Church considered the protest churches to be cults and heretics and and treated them more or less as witches. And back then there was only a few Protestant denominations, now there are thousands. So getting everyone to believe like you do will be impossible. It does not matter if we are talking about the Lutherans, Mormons, or Jehovah witnesses, they are all relatively new religions, starting 1500 years after the fact. So pooh poohing each other's denomination only means a bunch of stinky conversions.
JBF,
You say "hate" meant to "love less." Does that mean when it is spoken of God that "He hates sin.", that He loves it a little less than righteousness?
I think not. In each instance, the meaning in different verses is governed by the content of THAT particular passage... or even, the whole chapter or book. Thus, we cannot seize upon one meaning in one place as THE standing and accepted meaning of the same word in ALL places. That would be "One Verse Christianity."
You say "hate" meant to "love less." Does that mean when it is spoken of God that "He hates sin.", that He loves it a little less than righteousness?
I think not. In each instance, the meaning in different verses is governed by the content of THAT particular passage... or even, the whole chapter or book. Thus, we cannot seize upon one meaning in one place as THE standing and accepted meaning of the same word in ALL places. That would be "One Verse Christianity."
Well thank you for your concern about LDS Christians not knowing LDS Christian doctrines well enough. Would you like to understand things better, or were you just wanting to stay your concern?
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