Most Christians boldly proclaim "I know Him" but do NOT guard/keep His commandments!

[BarneyFife]

I run away?

Every single time

 

[BarneyFife]

Your Scripture selections are a joke! Do you really not understand what Paul was discussing in Romans? I suggest you continue read to the next chapter. The same applies to the next chapter in 1 John.

Being under the law is denying Christ. Period. Your exegesis is tragic!

I am ignoring you from now on.

And he's off and running!

Yes, you do this every time you and I have a discussion. Just sayin'.

Why would I jokingly handle Scripture?

I've asked you twice if you would deny openly and honestly that Romans 7:7 and 1 John 3:4 teach that sin is the breaking of the ten commandments.

And I guess you don't dare.

I thought all Scripture was inspired and profitable for doctrine, etc., but you say that Romans 7:7 and 1 John 3:4 are jokes. Is it because because they teach something you're afraid to either deny or affirm?

 

[Brakelite]

The claim that the law (the Ten Commandments) is nailed to the cross, is no less egregious than mailing Christ to the cross.
The Jews had their own religion quite apart and separate from that which had been delivered to their fathers. The religion of the Jews at the time of Jesus was in the deepest apostasy, and they crucified their Messiah because He revealed the true way. But they chose Barabus. And they choose Caesar as their king.
How is modem Christianity any different to the apostasy of Israel which seeks to nail to the cross that law which is a manifest reflection of the character of the Lawgiver? The same law that Messiah came to magnify and make honorable?

 

[Robert Gwin]

Romans 6:3-11 KJV
3) Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4) Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5) For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6) Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7) For he that is dead is freed from sin.
8) Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
9) Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
10) For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
11) Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Do you not yet reckon yourself crucified in Christ? Is this an example of God counselling us to pretend something that isn't true?

Much love!

Gal_2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Gal_6:14 But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.

Gal_5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.[/QUOTE]

 

[Robert Gwin]

Romans 6:3-11 KJV
3) Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4) Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5) For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6) Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7) For he that is dead is freed from sin.
8) Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
9) Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
10) For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
11) Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Do you not yet reckon yourself crucified in Christ? Is this an example of God counselling us to pretend something that isn't true?

Hi Joe, you posted this passage: 3) Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4) Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death:

The verse states who that was written to, those who were baptized into Jesus, those who will eventually make up his bride, the 144k who will reside with him in heaven as Kings and Priests. Romans 1:1-7 show this to be a letter from Paul to those called to belong to Jesus, those called to be holy ones. They are the ones the covenant was made with, Christ's brothers.

For us of the other sheep Jn 10:16, our life will come through Jesus, although we are not those of the covenant. I was going to issue an invitation a bit later for the Memorial this year, but I guess today would be a great day to post it, but you are certainly invited to attend a special talk this Sunday at 10 am Central entitled Where can you find real hope? Then in obedience to Jesus command found at Luke 22:19 to keep doing this in remembrance of me, we will be remembering him and the greatest sacrifice in human history on the anniversary of his death on Friday April 15 at 7m. If you send me a request in my inbox I will give you a link for these meetings, or simply attend at your local Kingdom Hall. Thanks Joe.

 

[Robert Gwin]

What was the question from @Backlit Robert?

Why we were not able to live the Law fully. Our inherited imperfection prevents that, but we are expected to try.

 

[Robert Gwin]

Hi Robert,

What does "inherited sin" mean?

:)

Hi Barn, what we inherited from Adam sir: (Romans 5:12) . . .through one man sin entered into the world and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because they had all sinned. . .

Nothing perfect can come from anything imperfect, we illustrate it using a cake pan, once it receives a dent, the cake will have a dent just the same.

 

[Johann]

Why we were not able to live the Law fully. Our inherited imperfection prevents that, but we are expected to try.

1Ti 1:6 From which some having swerved have turned aside unto vain jangling;
1Ti 1:7 Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.

1Ti 1:8 But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;

1Ti 1:9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,

1Ti 1:10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;


1Ti 1:11 According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust.

2Ti 2:23 But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes.


1) "But foolish and unlearned questions avoid" (tas de moras kai apaideutous zeteseis paraitou) "But the foolish (moronic) and uninstructed (childish) questionings refuse, or avoid," as vain, empty, idle babblings, 2Ti_2:16; Mat_12:36; Mat_12:41-42; Ecc_12:13-14.

2) "Knowing that they do gender strifes." (eidos hoti genosin machas) "Perceiving that they beget or spawn fights (bickerings and railings):" Such behavior is unbecoming for a Christian to engage in or listen to; Psa_1:1-3; for such creates confusion and God is not its author; 1Co_14:33; Pro_16:18; Pro_22:10; Pro_26:17; Proverbs 20-22; Tit_3:9-10.

Ask him this dear Robert...



Blessings
Johann

 

[farouk]

1Ti 1:6 From which some having swerved have turned aside unto vain jangling;
1Ti 1:7 Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.

1Ti 1:8 But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;

1Ti 1:9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,

1Ti 1:10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;


1Ti 1:11 According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust.

2Ti 2:23 But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes.


1) "But foolish and unlearned questions avoid" (tas de moras kai apaideutous zeteseis paraitou) "But the foolish (moronic) and uninstructed (childish) questionings refuse, or avoid," as vain, empty, idle babblings, 2Ti_2:16; Mat_12:36; Mat_12:41-42; Ecc_12:13-14.

2) "Knowing that they do gender strifes." (eidos hoti genosin machas) "Perceiving that they beget or spawn fights (bickerings and railings):" Such behavior is unbecoming for a Christian to engage in or listen to; Psa_1:1-3; for such creates confusion and God is not its author; 1Co_14:33; Pro_16:18; Pro_22:10; Pro_26:17; Proverbs 20-22; Tit_3:9-10.

Ask him this dear Robert...

View attachment 21571

Blessings
Johann

@Johann The NT indeed shows that faith and conduct go together...

 

[Johann]

The claim that the law (the Ten Commandments) is nailed to the cross, is no less egregious than mailing Christ to the cross.
The Jews had their own religion quite apart and separate from that which had been delivered to their fathers. The religion of the Jews at the time of Jesus was in the deepest apostasy, and they crucified their Messiah because He revealed the true way. But they chose Barabus. And they choose Caesar as their king.
How is modem Christianity any different to the apostasy of Israel which seeks to nail to the cross that law which is a manifest reflection of the character of the Lawgiver? The same law that Messiah came to magnify and make honorable?

Well done Ziggy.

 

[Johann]

@Johann The NT indeed shows that faith and conduct go together...

Indeed

Luk_6:43 For a good tree bringeth not forth corrupt fruit; neither doth a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

Luk_6:44 For every tree is known by his own fruit. For of thorns men do not gather figs, nor of a bramble bush gather they grapes.


Gal_5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

Eph_5:9 (For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth;)

Blessings
Johann

 

[farouk]

Indeed

Luk_6:43 For a good tree bringeth not forth corrupt fruit; neither doth a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

Luk_6:44 For every tree is known by his own fruit. For of thorns men do not gather figs, nor of a bramble bush gather they grapes.


Gal_5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

Eph_5:9 (For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth;)

Blessings
Johann

@Johann Great verses there....

 

[Jim B]

The claim that the law (the Ten Commandments) is nailed to the cross, is no less egregious than mailing Christ to the cross.
The Jews had their own religion quite apart and separate from that which had been delivered to their fathers. The religion of the Jews at the time of Jesus was in the deepest apostasy, and they crucified their Messiah because He revealed the true way. But they chose Barabus. And they choose Caesar as their king.
How is modem Christianity any different to the apostasy of Israel which seeks to nail to the cross that law which is a manifest reflection of the character of the Lawgiver? The same law that Messiah came to magnify and make honorable?

You either follow the OT law or you follow Christ.

Romans 7:4, "So, my brothers and sisters, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, that you might belong to another, to him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

“He that saith, I know Him, and keepeth not His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him” (1 John
2:4). How plain and pointed is that language! How awful its clear intimation! Do you not see, dear reader, this
verse plainly implies that there are those who claim to know Christ, and yet are liars? The father of lies has
deceived them, and he is doing everything in his power to keep them from being undeceived. That is why the
unregenerate reader finds this article so unpalatable, and wishes to turn from it. O resist this inclination, we
beseech you. God has given us this very verse by which we may measure ourselves, and discover whether or not
our “assurance of salvation” will stand the test of His Holy Word. Then act not like the silly ostrich, which buries
his head in the sand, rather than face his danger.
Let us quote one more verse from this first “we know” passage in John’s Epistle: “But whoso keepeth His
Word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in Him” (1 John 2:5). This stands
in sharp contrast from the preceding verse. The Apostle was here moved to set before us some clear Scriptural
evidences of spiritual faith and love, within constitute the vital difference between sheep and goats. In verse 4 it
is the empty professor who says, “I know Christ as my personal Saviour.” He has a theoretical, but not a vital
knowledge of Him.

He boasts that he is resting on Christ’s finished work, and is confident that he is saved: but
keeps not His commandments. He is still a self-pleaser. Like Solomon’s sluggard, he is “wiser in his own conceits
than seven men that can render a reason” (Prov. 26:16). He talks boldly, but walks carelessly.
In verse 5 it is the genuine Christian who is in view. He does not say, “I know Him,” instead, he proves it. The
Apostle is not here presenting Christ as the immediate Object of faith, but is describing him who has savingly
fled to the Lord for refuge, and this, by the effects produced. In him Christ’s Word is everything: his food, his
constant meditation, his chart. He “keeps” it in memory, in heart, in action. Christ’s “commandments” occupy his
thoughts and prayers as much as do His promises. That Word working in him subdues his carnal desires, feeds
his graces, and draws them into real exercise and action. That Word has such a place in his heart and mind that he
cannot but give proof of the same in his talk and walk. In this way the “love of God is perfected”: the Family
likeness is plainly stamped upon him. All can see to which “father” he belongs—contrast John 8:44.
“Whoso keepeth His Word . . . hereby (in this way) know we that we are in Him.” Keep His Word perfectly?
No. But actually, characteristically, in deep desire and honest effort to do so? Yes. Regeneration is that miracle of
Divine grace wrought in the soul which enlists the affections Godwards—which brings the human will into
subjection to the Divine—and which produces a real and radical change in the life. That change is from
worldliness to godliness, from disobedience to obedience. At the new birth the love of God is shed abroad in the
heart by the Holy Spirit, and that love is manifested in a dominating longing and sincere purpose to please in all
things the One who has plucked me as a brand from the burning. There is a greater difference between the
genuine Christian and the deceived professing Christian than there is between a living man and a corpse. None
need remain in doubt if they will honestly measure themselves by the Holy Word of God.
Pink.

In context of the chapter it seems that the "keeping" His commandments implies that you possess them in your heart. Isn't it a present participle? The commandments translate as LOVE. If we have love in our hearts, we possess His LOVE which is all a gift. He is the Author of our faith, which means he prepares works and does the work through us; and so He gets the credit. It is a recognition of our state of being, our transformed nature: Do we possess Christ or not? Or the Love possesses us, however you care to see it. And "by their fruit you will know them", is the litmus test. And so we are all on different levels of growth therefore yielding various levels of LOVE.
I am not saying that we are not to obey them, act on them, but the chapter opens up with the answer to our dilemma: If we sin, we have Christ, the propitiation of our sins.
"The one who says that he is in the Light and yet hates his brother or sister is in the darkness until now. The one who loves his brother and sister remains in the Light, and there is nothing in him to cause stumbling...
Do not love the world nor the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him." 1 John 2:9-11, 15
So it is a state if being, if you love or not. The distinction is for us to determine since it is not always recognizable by others. We know if we truly believe and possess His love.

 

[Jim B]

In context of the chapter it seems that the "keeping" His commandments implies that you possess them in your heart. Isn't it a present participle? The commandments translate as LOVE. If we have love in our hearts, we possess His LOVE which is all a gift and He is the Author of our faith, which means he prepares works and dies the work through us and so He gets the credit. It is a recognition of our state of being, our transformed nature: Do we possess Christ or not? And "by their fruit you will know them", is the litmus test. And so we are all on different levels of growth therefore yielding various levels of LOVE.
I am not saying that we are not to obey them, act on them, but the chapter opens up with the answer to our dilemma: If we sin, we have Christ, the propitiation of our sins.
"The one who says that he is in the Light and yet hates his brother or sister is in the darkness until now. The one who loves his brother and sister remains in the Light, and there is nothing in him to cause stumbling...
Do not love the world nor the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him." 1 John 2:9-11, 15
So it is a state if being, if you love or not. The distinction is for us to determine since it is not always recognizable by others. We know if we truly belief and possess His love.

Great post!

 

[Johann]

You either follow the OT law or you follow Christ.

Romans 7:4, "So, my brothers and sisters, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, that you might belong to another, to him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God.

You either follow the OT law or you follow Christ.

Romans 7:4, "So, my brothers and sisters, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, that you might belong to another, to him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God.

Absolutely tutenly spot on!

 

[Misty Williams]

Very true. So many believers go to church and proclaim Jesus as Lord but absolutely have not yielded their life to His will. I pray that in these last days, many will come into revelation and start pursuing a true relationship with Christ so we can all here "well done my good and faithful servant".

 

[farouk]

Very true. So many believers go to church and proclaim Jesus as Lord but absolutely have not yielded their life to His will. I pray that in these last days, many will come into revelation and start pursuing a true relationship with Christ so we can all here "well done my good and faithful servant".

@Misty Williams Paul to the Romans in chapter 1 and in chapter 16 speaks of 'obedience to the faith' and 'the obedience of faith'.

 

[Jim B]

Very true. So many believers go to church and proclaim Jesus as Lord but absolutely have not yielded their life to His will. I pray that in these last days, many will come into revelation and start pursuing a true relationship with Christ so we can all here "well done my good and faithful servant".

Who are you to judge other believers? Every time I read the words "the many" it is a sure sign of self-righteousness.

 

[Desire Of All Nations]

So very true Joe, none of us have the capability to observe them fully, however we are expected to try.

Jesus was a flesh and blood human being like everybody else on the planet, and He kept them perfectly. A person's ability to keep God's commandments is directly proportionate to how much they are actively applying the Bible's instructions in their lives.

You need to remember this was a command to the nation of Israel and not to the church. The law has been rendered inoperative for it was perfectly fulfilled by Jesus. We can use any externals. God judges the heart intent now. Paul laid down teh priniciple that governs this in Romans 14.

I have taught on how to redeem the Christmas tree. I fully acknowledge it was a pagan symbol and the day was during the winter pagan festivals. As long as you do not honor the day and tree in those reasons, there is no wrong. they are merely external symbols. It is how we view and value them that make them wright or wrong.

This is antichrist doctrine. Jesus specifically, and quite plainly, said that God desires ppl who will worship Him in spirit and truth(Jhn 4:24). Jesus already shut the door on the idea that anyone has the authority or ability to "redeem" satanic customs for a godly purpose. God laid out the way He wishes to be worshiped throughout Lev. 23, and none of the instructions in that chapter involves idols.

The "Christians" who invent these excuses never stop to realize that they're displaying the same "i will be the Most High" attitude that got Lucifer in hot water with his Maker.

What scissors did you use to cut these verses from your Bible?

"For sin shall no longer be your master, because you are not under the law, but under grace. What then? Shall we sin because we are not under the law but under grace? By no means!" Romans 6:14-15 NIV

"To the Jews I became like a Jew, to win the Jews. To those under the law I became like one under the law (though I myself am not under the law), so as to win those under the law." 1 Corinthians 9:20

"For all who rely on the works of the law are under a curse, as it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.” Galatians 3:10

"But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law." Galatians 5:18 (Nothing could be clearer than this verse!)

You talk about someone using scissors to cut passages out of the Bible, but people like yourself twist Paul's words in Romans and Galatians while conveniently glossing over passages like Rom. 7:22 where Paul stated for the record that he delighted in keeping God's commandments.

A person who is led by the Spirit keeps God's commandments. The psalms say that God's commandments are like a light on a dark path, and unless you can find the passage that truly says they are the burden you're trying to make them out to be, you are operating as an agent of deception. "If you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law" does not mean "you are an exception to the law".

Who are you to judge other believers? Every time I read the words "the many" it is a sure sign of self-righteousness.

Every last argument you made in this thread was done with the intention of judging someone who believed in the eternal authority of the OT as someone who wasn't following Christ. Get over yourself. You're really in no position to get on a soapbox about judging other believers.

And while you're at it, i strongly advise that you read Jesus' own words in Matt. 7 and 24 where He says it Himself that there are a lot more fake Christians than true Christians. A lot of them do talk a lot about how Jesus is supposedly their Lord, but they refuse to do what He says(Luk. 6:46). In Matt 24, Jesus said that many deceived individuals will use His name to preach lies, not some.