MOTB by itself does not always = LOF ??
- Thread starter PeterAndroz
- Start date
-
Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
I get that. So, simply explain then with Scripture proving it, what it is that saints are not allowed to buy and sell but those with the MOTB are allowed to buy and sell.
A) Have the MOTB = can buy and sell
B) Don't have the MOTB = can't buy and sell
If it's something spiritual related, what is it that A) can do but B) can't do, and why? Let's don't leave the 'why' out.
saying to them that dwell on the earth
that they should make an image to the beast
which had the wound by a sword, and did live(verse 3. And until verse 3 is fulfilled first, in the meantime it is absurd that there already is this image that has been made to the beast)
And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast
that the image of the beast should both speak(already sounding AIish to me, that it's related to AI technology)
and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
Verse 16---- which does not include anyone refusing to worship it. Instead, their fate = should be killed and or they are forbidden to buy or sell
And that no man might buy or sell(obviously, only meaning anyone that meets the conditions below, Those that refuse to meet these conditions are excluded from buying and selling because verse 16 was never applied to them also.)
save he that had the mark(obviously, not including anyone refusing to worship it's image)
or the name of the beast(obviously, not including anyone refusing to worship it's image)
or the number of his name.(obviously, not including anyone refusing to worship it's image)
Last edited:
Do you not see what verse 1 says in the Greek? measure the temple(naos not hieron)
of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.
If you were correct, the Greek word used would have been hieron rather that naos. The angel was not a rookie. He chose his words carefully. If he meant the 2nd temple or even a rebuilt one in the future, he would have used hieron not naos.
Regardless when Revelation was written, Jesus had already died and rose and ascended back into heaven. Once He died and rose it would not still be a good thing to be worshiping in a temple if the temple is a brick and mortar temple. In Revelation 11:1, worshiping in the temple is a good thing, not a bad thing. Therefore, it is absurd for numerous reasons, some I already provided, that the temple meant is the 2nd temple or even a rebuilt one in the future.
In Revelation 11:2 what they are doing within is a good thing. In verse 2 what they are doing without is a bad thing. Your interpretation has verse 1 and 2 doing bad things rather than only verse 2 being when anyone is doing bad things. In light of that both verses, like I already said, are meaning post Christ's death and resurrection and ascension back into heaven, no matter when verses 1-2 are meaning.
Last edited:
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
Why not? Have you noticed the frenzy of building AI data centers? There may be a drastic decrease of global population if famine, pandemics, wars increase.
Revelation 13
16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
You're saying the naos is believers' bodies. Then what is the altar? What is the outer court given to the Gentiles? And what would it even mean for Gentiles to trample the body of a believer?
Separate question on verse 2, where do you get the idea that the heavenly Jerusalem can be trodden underfoot for forty-two months? Revelation 21:27 says nothing unclean enters it. So which city is being trampled?
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
That is exactly the Agenda
Wars
PLANdemics
Disrupt the eco-system (HAARP) and thereby increase the floods, the droughts, the fires, the devestation
Now save everyone thru VAXXs,
food distribution controlled and contaminated and modified
Bombard the delicate human electromagnetic frequencies within our bodies with 6G and more
Transgender indoctrination that curbs reproduction
Poison the aquifer of the earth with pesticides and much more
Those who engage in merchandising the gospel, exploiting others for gain, trafficking in false doctrine for profit—they are the ones with the mark. They are free to buy and sell because they've rejected the principle of God's house. But true saints? They cannot buy and sell in that way.
Jesus made this clear in John 2:14-16 when He drove out those who turned His Father's house into a place of merchandise. He said, "make not my Father's house an house of merchandise."
Here is a verse that says either worship or receive the mark, not necessarily both.
Revelation 14:11
11 And the smoke of their torment will rise for ever and ever. There will be no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and its image, or for anyone who receives the mark of its name.
But this merchandise was not doctrines or ideas, it was physical items, animals and birds for sacrifice.
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
During times of war, WWII & WWIII, there were food rations as well as other rations imposed because of the War.
How much more will this be repeated AND in conjuction with the MoB = "no one can buy or sell without the MoB"
Christians should of been at the very HEAD of Conservation = Revelation 11:8
The nations were enraged, and Your wrath has come. The time has come to judge the dead and to reward Your servants the prophets, as well as the saints and those who fear Your name, both small and great—and to destroy those who destroy the earth.”
The principle underneath wasn't about the *item being sold*—it was about turning God's house into a place of profit and exploitation. In Matthew 23:13-14, Jesus condemns the scribes and Pharisees for devouring widows' houses and making long prayers for a pretense. They were selling something different than animals—they were selling false authority and spiritual manipulation for gain. Same condemnation.
The MOTB operates the same way: those who merchandise truth—whether doctrines, gospels, or spiritual authority—for unrighteous profit, they are marked by that spirit. The medium changes; the sin doesn't.
Actually, it was about the physical items being sold, because Jesus whipped the animals out.
It wouldn't have been any different had they been selling gospel tracts, Jesus still would've been angry because they were making money off of the things of God.
It wasn’t sinful that they were making money off the items they sold. It was that merchants and priests overcharged poor worshippers for required animal sacrifices and used unfair currency exchange rates inside the holy site.
Jesus did not accuse them as sellers, but as robbers.
Jewish law required that every man should pay a tribute to the service of the sanctuary of “half a shekel” (Exodus 30:11–16), a Jewish coin. It became, therefore, a matter of convenience to have a place where the Roman coin could be exchanged for the Jewish half shekel. The money-changers provided this convenience, but would demand a small sum for the exchange. Because so many thousands of people came up to the great feasts, changing money became a very profitable business and one that resulted in fraud and oppression of the poor.
Also, according to the Law, two doves or pigeons were required to be offered in sacrifice (Leviticus 14:22; Luke 2:24). Yet it was difficult to bring them from the distant parts of Judea, so a lucrative business selling the birds sprang up, with the sellers gouging the faithful by charging exorbitant prices. There were other merchants selling cattle and sheep for the temple sacrifices as well. Because of these sellers who preyed on the poor and because of His passion for the purity of His Father’s house, Jesus was filled with righteous indignation.
Here also is the use of “buying and selling” which refers to physical items:
Matthew 21:12-13 NIV (New International Version)
Jesus entered the temple courts and drove out all who were buying and selling there. He overturned the tables of the money changers and the benches of those selling doves. “It is written,” he said to them, “ ‘My house will be called a house of prayer,’ but you are making it ‘a den of robbers.’”
Notice that Matthew 21:12 says Jesus "cast out all them that sold and bought in the temple" — not just the ones who were cheating. He didn't pull aside the honest merchants and let them stay. He drove them all out.
Why? Because John's account gives us the clearest statement of the charge. In John 2:16, Jesus doesn't say "you're overcharging" — He says "make not my Father's house an house of merchandise." His objection was to the temple being used as a commercial venue at all, not merely to dishonest pricing within it.
Jesus called it a den of robbers, not a den of sellers.
“It is written,” he said to them, “ ‘My house will be called a house of prayer,’ but you are making it ‘a den of robbers.’”
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
Think moment = If they were not "buying and selling items" , then no sin occurred in the Temple.
Physical Temple with physical players(humans) selling physical items.
Similar threads
