Mother of James?

[2nd Timothy Group]

If a person would simply put Colossians 2:9-15 into a soft spot of their hardened heart . . . and let it grow . . . all of this doctrinal insanity and disagreement comes to an end. Catholic Bible or Christian Bible with its vast array of translations, they all say the same basic things.

Learn the below Seven verses (not by memory, but through Wisdom and Understanding), and watch your entire life change . . . if you accept the Work of Jesus upon your Heart. Your Heart must be lifted of the Curse of Adam and Eve if we're going to be able to interpret the Bible. Hence, the reason why none of us hold the same doctrine on the Bible in it's Core, hidden Message. Not good at all.

Colossians 2:9-15 KJV - "For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. 10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power: 11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: 12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with [him] through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead. 13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; 14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; 15 [And] having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it."

 

[Nancy]

The door that Jesus is knocking on is the door of a person's heart - maybe yours - and it has it's handle on the inside so only the person who hears the knock can decide whether or not to open the door.

Awesome Pat. No handle

 

[Marymog]

So the Church. How do you mean you, 'go to the Church'? I don't understand that as the church is made up of people who are fallible. Do you mean fallible men in the church? And it is Jesus himself who is Truth. So if I go to Jesus I am going to Truth.

Thanks Pearl.

The Church, which was started by Christ and of which the gates of hell will not prevail against (Matthew 16:18), is made up of people who are fallible. Christ started a Church with 12 men that had authority over everyone else. That Church is the pillar and foundation of Truth (1 Timothy 3:15) and if we refuse to listen to The Church it has the authority to determine that we should be treated by all other Christians as a pagan/tax collector (Matthew 18:17). I accept the authority of The Church you accept your authority.

The Apostles were fallible. Does that mean we should not practice what they preach? Of course not. Because if we reject the teaching of the Apostles (fallible men) we reject the One who sent them (Luke 10:16). I reject your teaching. You reject the teaching of The Church.

I have figured out what Church that is. You haven't. I have found the Truth and you haven't. You believe in you. I believe in The Church. The truth has set me free. I pray that someday you will be free!

 

[Marymog]

My church fellowship teaches what Jesus Himself taught. The Holy Spirit teaches me either my listening to a Spirit filled preacher or as I read my bible prayerfully or in a variety of different ways.

So let me get this straight priests are fallible but the Church is infallible. So what is the Church if not a body of people, men and women? Please will you make it clear and simple for a non-Catholic.

Thanks Pearl.

For the last 2,000 years MANY men and women have believed in their heart that the Holy Spirit has taught them the Truth. Those "truths" that those men/women teach are all different truths. Sooooooo is the Holy Spirit confused or are they??

Scripture says that The Church is the pillar and foundation of truth. If you believe Scripture then YES The Church is infallible.

The Church is today what is was at the Council of Jerusalem 2,000 years ago. The Apostles were The Church and they taught other men the Truth and those men taught other men the truth etc etc. I believe that teaching of the Truth by The Church has continued for 2,000 years. You clearly don't. So could you please tell me when men stopped teaching other men the Truth. The biggest shift was the Reformation when men started teaching themselves that they could figure out the Truth on their own. They no longer needed The Church.

 

[Marymog]

The door that Jesus is knocking on is the door of a person's heart - maybe yours - and it has it's handle on the inside so only the person who hears the knock can decide whether or not to open the door.

I don't trust your interpretation of Scripture since you are a fallible person.

Thanks for sharing your opinion though!

 

[Pearl]

The Apostles were fallible. Does that mean we should not practice what they preach?

Mary I too accept the teachings of the Apostles which are in my bible. And yes they were fallible because they were ordinary men with an exraordinary calling. But I still don't understand. What other teaching do you mean.

 

[Pearl]

I have figured out what Church that is.

The Catholic church of itself is not the Church. The Church - The One True Church is the body of Christ, which is made up of born again Believers. true Christians, past, present and future, from all races, nations and denominations. That is the One True Church. Catholics do not have the superiority. Come to Jesus in the way I have described to you and you too will belong to the One True Church, the Body of Christ and God's family.

 

[Pearl]

I don't trust your interpretation of Scripture since you are a fallible person.

Thanks for sharing your opinion though!

Well funny about that Mary but so are you, so should I trust yours.

 

[Pearl]

Thanks Pearl.

For the last 2,000 years MANY men and women have believed in their heart that the Holy Spirit has taught them the Truth. Those "truths" that those men/women teach are all different truths. Sooooooo is the Holy Spirit confused or are they??

Scripture says that The Church is the pillar and foundation of truth. If you believe Scripture then YES The Church is infallible.

The Church is today what is was at the Council of Jerusalem 2,000 years ago. The Apostles were The Church and they taught other men the Truth and those men taught other men the truth etc etc. I believe that teaching of the Truth by The Church has continued for 2,000 years. You clearly don't. So could you please tell me when men stopped teaching other men the Truth. The biggest shift was the Reformation when men started teaching themselves that they could figure out the Truth on their own. They no longer needed The Church.

What does 1 Timothy 3:15 mean when it says that the church is the pillar and foundation of the truth? | GotQuestions.org

 

[Nancy]

Well you go to fallible priests Mary. And at least our pastors actively encourage us to check the scriptures our for ourselves so that we can test that what we are taught is actually biblical.

Even the historical documents you like to refer to were written by fallible men. Nobody, apart from Catholics, believes that man can be infallible. The only man who was is Jesus.

Well put Pat. ONLY Christ was infallible as a human.

 

[Nancy]

Thank you Nancy.

Sooooooo we can all agree that God "put the bible together". That is truly a broken record response by Protestants who don't know the history of the bible they quote from.

God revealed to man/men the...if you will....the table of contents of the Bible. I don't understand why that is so difficult for you to say? Maybe because if you say that then you would have to agree that God revealed to The Church (men) the table of contents but God didn't trust that same Church (men) to properly interpret the Bible. You trust The Church (men) whom God revealed the table of contents to but you trust yourself to interpret that book.....fascinating.

You didn't answer either of my questions:

Why go to that fallible protestant pastor to teach you???

Did fallible men give us the correct books for our Bible????


Mary

BTW....The Bereans, who were Jews, compared what we now call the OT to Paul's oral teaching about Jesus to determine that Paul was telling them the Truth about Jesus. They then converted to Christianity. I am not Jewish and we are 2,000 years removed from that event. Sooooo what's your point?

Soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo, this goes no place and, John 13:35 is NOT a suggestion. Have to put you on ignore as you just bring me down.

 

[Marymog]

Soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo, this goes no place and, John 13:35 is NOT a suggestion. Have to put you on ignore as you just bring me down.

I agree....this goes no place because you either refuse or can't answer my questions. That is how a conversation works....you ask, I answer. I ask, you answer. When one isn't answering then it "goes no place". It's just two people preaching at each other.

I know why you can't answer....but it's a mute point now.

 

[Pearl]

Soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo, this goes no place and, John 13:35 is NOT a suggestion. Have to put you on ignore as you just bring me down.

I'm afraid you do rather have that effect Mary. Can you start or join a more upbeat thread. It's gets very heavy at times.

 

[Marymog]

What does 1 Timothy 3:15 mean when it says that the church is the pillar and foundation of the truth? | GotQuestions.org

Pearl,

Quoting from the Protestant teaching you accept on gotquestions.org here is what you seem to believe: The church” is what holds up and holds firm the truth in the world.


If you can convince me that every single Christian since the death of Christ until the year 2020 is the pillar and foundation of truth and holding up "the truth in the world" I will join your church TODAY!!! It's not logical.

If you can convince me that your church is the church that has the authority to pronounce any other Christian a pagan/tax collector because they don't accept what the church teaches...I will join your church. You can't say that every denomination in the world and Joes Bible only church on Main Street has the authority to call the members of their individual church a pagan/tax collector. That theory does not match up with Scriptures teaching of sound and false doctrine. It's not logical.

Patient Mary

 

[farouk]

What does 1 Timothy 3:15 mean when it says that the church is the pillar and foundation of the truth? | GotQuestions.org

@Pearl It means in a similar sense of 1 Peter 4.17:

"For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?"

(It doesn't mean that supposed, ecclesiastical authorities have a monopolistic access to some secret 'truth' which gives them the authority to dictate to everyone.)

 

[Pearl]

@Pearl It means in a similar sense of 1 Peter 4.17:

"For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?"

(It doesn't mean that supposed, ecclesiastical authorities have a monopolistic access to some secret 'truth' which gives them the authority to dictate to everyone.)

Absolutely.

 

[farouk]

That experience must have affected her for the rest of her life (and Joseph's) but where does God tell her not to be a loving wife?

@Pearl Indeed. Mary kept things in her heart. But you are right; she would have been a loving wife, too. You mentioned your granddaughter; if married the very idea that she should not be a loving wife because of her past, spiritual privileges and experiences would be very wrong, wouldn't it? I do like the word abstinence when applied to single ppl, but abstinence among the married - except if the person has some special circumstance such as near-terminal illness, etc. - makes no sense.

 

[Pearl]

@Pearl Indeed. Mary kept things in her heart. But you are right; she would have been a loving wife, too. You mentioned your granddaughter; if married the very idea that she should not be a loving wife because of her past, spiritual privileges and experiences would be very wrong, wouldn't it? I do like the word abstinence when applied to single ppl, but abstinence among the married - except if the person has some special circumstance such as near-terminal illness, etc. - makes no sense.

Or like it says in the bible,
1 Corinthians 7:5
Do not deprive each other except perhaps by mutual consent and for a time, so that you may devote yourselves to prayer. Then come together again so that Satan will not tempt you because of your lack of self-control.

 

[farouk]

Or like it says in the bible,
1 Corinthians 7:5
Do not deprive each other except perhaps by mutual consent and for a time, so that you may devote yourselves to prayer. Then come together again so that Satan will not tempt you because of your lack of self-control.

@Pearl Some of the chapters of Song of Solomon - I won't quote them - clearly have a similar message.

 

[DNB]

PLEASE explain to me how I took Matt. 5:14-16 "out of context".
Explain to me what Jesus "really" meant.

This should be interesting . . .

Meaning, that not everyone that appears to do good works and deeds, or that behaves in a particular manner, is necessarily saved.
It goes without saying that countless atheists, Buddhists, Muslims and so forth, act much better than many Christians. In this context, Christ's exhortation was advice, not a rule, nor a definition. Appearances are deceptive, many do good works but for the wrong reasons, while others may do the wrong thing but for the right reason.
Yes, when one understands righteousness and behaves accordingly, it is a great service to all for him to expose his good deeds. But, again, this does not make everyone who appears to be sanctified in their behaviour, as truly being so.
Thus, not every Church-goer, catholic, eastern, or protestant, is saved.