Mother Teresa

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Is Mother Teresa in heaven?


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GodsGrace

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My understanding from the Catholic catechism is that Catholics are not saved yet. They are doing the works of catholicism towards that end.

I am not sure where I had posted that inferred or implied about specifically that every time a Catholic sinned, they become unsaved.


"Being saved" is probably why they think they are in the process of being saved when they are saved.

Hi JIF, sorry for delay.
This is what Catholics believe:
They were saved
They are being saved
They will be saved
There IS scripture for this, if you want it, I'll look for it.
They believe they ARE saved if they're not in a state of mortal sin (it's not easy to commit a mortal sin). Venial sins can be forgiven with no priest involved. There is purgatory to go through.
So, yes, you're right...they are saved while they are in the process of being saved...huh? IOW, if they died with no mortal sin, they'd be saved.

1 Corinthians 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.....21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

Isn't your understanding what the Catholic Church teaches about purgatory is how it is necessary to do penance to shorten one's stay in it for obtaining that salvation in getting into Heaven? That was what I had believed was taught by the CC.
Penance that the priest gives after confession is not to shorten the stay in purgatory. Some priests don't even do this anymore. It's to make up for the sins commited. To make sure you're sorry for your sins and this doing of penance shows your sorrow to be true. You "do your penance" for having sinned.

penance
ˈpɛnəns/

noun
  1. 1.
    punishment inflicted on oneself as an outward expression of repentance for wrongdoing.
    "he had done public penance for those hasty words"
    sinonimi: atonement, expiation, self-punishment, self-mortification, self-abasement, reparation, amends, penalty, punishment
What DOES shorten stay in purgatory is indulgences.
There are partial indulgences and there are plenary indulgences that could abolish the stay in purgatory completely. This is a little complicated to get into and I doubt you care that much about it.



How do you apply Ephesians 4:30? Reads to me that the Holy Spirit is not going anywhere.

Then there is that promise from Jesus about not losing any one that the Father has given Him that believes in Him in John 6:38-40
The Catholic church does not believe in eternal security.
I hope you remember that I'm not Catholic...BUT, I don't believe in eternal security either.

BUT that is not saying that every saved believer will be ready to inherit that celestial inheritance of being that vessel unto honor in His House to attend the Marriage Supper when the Bridegroom comes. Those left behind are still saved, but denied entrance to attend the Marriage Supper as they will be received later on of their inheritance after the great tribulation. This is where the vessels unto dishonor comes from that are still in His House because they are saved. See 2 Timothy 2:18-21 in how this call to depart from iniquity, also includes former believers as 2 Timothy 2:13 explains how.
You're talking again about that situation I know nothing about.
Re Catholics though, they don't believe in the rapture either.
There is another explanation about this being left behind that some mainstream churches believe to be true..but that's another thread I guess.


Yes... I have heard that some Catholics say that they are saved, but devout Catholics that believe they are not saved yet would just treat the Catholics that believe that they are saved as "cafeteria Catholics" as only believing in parts of catholicism and not all of it from which then the Lord would call the Catholics that believe that they are saved to show their faith in Him that they are saved by leaving the Catholic Church. Otherwise... the devout Catholics cannot see that faith in Him when remaining in the Catholic Church as they are when that purpose is for obtaining the means of salvation within CC.
I think a cafeteria catholic is someone that claims to be a catholic but does not adhere to the doctrine and rules of the Catholic church.
I'm not sure about what you're saying regarding leaving the church.
I had to leave because there was no spiritual food for me there.



Grace is not of works, otherwise it is no longer grace.

Romans 11:5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace. 6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
Yes. I agree with the above of course, I'm just worried we're not understanding it the same way. It's the end of Romans 9 and 10 which is speaking about the Jews not accepting Jesus as Messiah.
They think their works will save them. The works UNDER THE LAW, NOT works UNDER GRACE or some call this Obedience of Faith.
We still have to do works for God, but we're no longer under the law but are under grace.

Mercy is not getting what we deserve and grace is getting what we do not deserve.
Amen to that.

Salvation has been obtained by when you had first believed in the Lord Jesus Christ and that God had raised Him from the dead.

Running that race by looking to Jesus Christ, the author & finisher of our faith, to help us lay aside every weight & sin in seeking to be received by the Bridegroom as vessels unto honor in His House to attend the Marriage Supper is the high prize of our calling.... not to obtain salvation by when Jesus Christ has saved us, but to be delivered from what is coming on the earth. See 2 Peter 3rd chapter at the link below in the KJV.
Agreed. It's just that you talk about the marriage supper and I'm looking to get to heaven -- not a supper!
I'll check out the link.

1 Peter 4:17-19 in the KJV testifies to how after God judges His House, Jesus Christ is faithful in keeping the souls of His saints that are left behind to suffer the coming fire on the earth and the eventual great tribulation as a result.

1 Peter 4:17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God? 18 And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear? 19 Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing, as unto a faithful Creator.

So it is not about obtaining salvation, but acknowledging that we are saved as we look to Him as our Good Shepherd for living this reconciled relationship with God as our confidence and hopes are on Him to finish the race for us: Philippians 1:6
Hmmm. Yes, I know we are already saved. I do think you thought I was Catholic...

I went to the link, and it's only some verses in 2 Peter.
I also read Philippians. I gather you believe in eternal security.
If your point is different, please clarify.
 

GodsGrace

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@GodsGrace
I don't know it is funny but it is quite different from the English or Spanish or Italian.

I don't have any ancient Bibles, but I do have two old ones. I have my mother's Bible given to her by my father for Christmas in 1940, three years before I was born. I also have a German Luther Bible printed in the old German script in 1922 in Stuttgart. I bought it on an Internet auction in 2014 for $20. I already read German but I had never learned the old script. I had to go online and print a table of the old alphabet with the modern equivalents and use it daily to read the Bible. I stopped using the cheat sheet long ago as I finally learned to read that old Bible without it. It is now one of my three regular daily reading Bibles.

"Gröss Gott" [God is great]
Reading the bible in a different language feels different...
I know someone that reads Koine Greek. I wish I could read the original language. I know how much gets lost in translation.
But I still believe the bible , N.T. was translated well enough from the Greek to know what God wants us to know. All the ideas are still there.
I do believe the modern translations are superior.
 
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aspen

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Glad we can all speculate about Mother Teresa’s faith since Trump is off limits....
 
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amadeus

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Reading the bible in a different language feels different...
I know someone that reads Koine Greek. I wish I could read the original language. I know how much gets lost in translation.
But I still believe the bible , N.T. was translated well enough from the Greek to know what God wants us to know. All the ideas are still there.
I do believe the modern translations are superior.
I've been reading my Bible in the three languages for many years and could not and would not stop. It does feel different, but that does not mean in a bad way at all. It is to me very good. It gives me a very different perspective at times.

The newer translations may be better according to man's understanding, but I would hesitate to say that from the understanding that God has given me. Of course, while I read the languages, I am not a linguist. I stopped my studies long before I approached anything like that. I used to regret it but now I no longer do. I am contented with the direction God is leading me although at times I get impatient. I have to talk with God about that regularly.
 
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GodsGrace

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I've been reading my Bible in the three languages for many years and could not and would not stop. It does feel different, but that does not mean in a bad way at all. It is to me very good. It gives me a very different perspective at times.

The newer translations may be better according to man's understanding, but I would hesitate to say that from the understanding that God has given me. Of course, while I read the languages, I am not a linguist. I stopped my studies long before I approached anything like that. I used to regret it but now I no longer do. I am contented with the direction God is leading me although at times I get impatient. I have to talk with God about that regularly.
I also meant that reading in a different language feels different in a good way.
I do not, however, read the bible in Italian regularly --- just when there's some question about something on these forums. I don't like to use commentaries unless I really have to. I find that the bible provides its own answer.
 
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amadeus

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I also meant that reading in a different language feels different in a good way.
I do not, however, read the bible in Italian regularly --- just when there's some question about something on these forums. I don't like to use commentaries unless I really have to. I find that the bible provides its own answer.
Neither do I regularly use commentaries although I have them and do at times refer to them. The commentaries are like the other people on a forum. At times they can be helpful and at times their information seems very wrong to me. Those who wrote the commentaries were also people... and usually I would guess better educated in the scriptures that most forum members including yours truly. That is the good side of it. The bad side is that man cannot in the skills of his brain alone fully understand that thing of God. We must be led in order to really move closer to God. The leader must be God Himself. Sometimes that Leader is manifested through men, but we need to be very careful with that since sometimes following them too closely will bring us into a ditch with them.
 
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JesusIsFaithful

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Hi JIF, sorry for delay.
This is what Catholics believe:
They were saved
They are being saved
They will be saved
There IS scripture for this, if you want it, I'll look for it.
They believe they ARE saved if they're not in a state of mortal sin (it's not easy to commit a mortal sin). Venial sins can be forgiven with no priest involved. There is purgatory to go through.
So, yes, you're right...they are saved while they are in the process of being saved...huh? IOW, if they died with no mortal sin, they'd be saved.


Penance that the priest gives after confession is not to shorten the stay in purgatory. Some priests don't even do this anymore. It's to make up for the sins commited. To make sure you're sorry for your sins and this doing of penance shows your sorrow to be true. You "do your penance" for having sinned.

penance
ˈpɛnəns/

noun
  1. 1.
    punishment inflicted on oneself as an outward expression of repentance for wrongdoing.
    "he had done public penance for those hasty words"
    sinonimi: atonement, expiation, self-punishment, self-mortification, self-abasement, reparation, amends, penalty, punishment
What DOES shorten stay in purgatory is indulgences.
There are partial indulgences and there are plenary indulgences that could abolish the stay in purgatory completely. This is a little complicated to get into and I doubt you care that much about it.




The Catholic church does not believe in eternal security.
I hope you remember that I'm not Catholic...BUT, I don't believe in eternal security either.


You're talking again about that situation I know nothing about.
Re Catholics though, they don't believe in the rapture either.
There is another explanation about this being left behind that some mainstream churches believe to be true..but that's another thread I guess.



I think a cafeteria catholic is someone that claims to be a catholic but does not adhere to the doctrine and rules of the Catholic church.
I'm not sure about what you're saying regarding leaving the church.
I had to leave because there was no spiritual food for me there.




Yes. I agree with the above of course, I'm just worried we're not understanding it the same way. It's the end of Romans 9 and 10 which is speaking about the Jews not accepting Jesus as Messiah.
They think their works will save them. The works UNDER THE LAW, NOT works UNDER GRACE or some call this Obedience of Faith.
We still have to do works for God, but we're no longer under the law but are under grace.


Amen to that.


Agreed. It's just that you talk about the marriage supper and I'm looking to get to heaven -- not a supper!
I'll check out the link.


Hmmm. Yes, I know we are already saved. I do think you thought I was Catholic...

I went to the link, and it's only some verses in 2 Peter.
I also read Philippians. I gather you believe in eternal security.
If your point is different, please clarify.

You got it right. I believe in eternal security otherwise those who do not depart from iniquity, including former believers, would not be vessels unto dishonor in His House ( 2 Timothy 2:18-21 ). The reason that the vessels unto dishonor are in His House is to testify to the power of God in salvation for all those that believe in Him, even in His name ( John 1:12-13 )

But the high prize of our calling is to run that race as a saved believer by looking to the author & finisher of our faith to help us lay aside every weight & sin to be received by the Bridegroom as vessels unto honor in His House; not for obtaining or maintaining salvation, les we deny Him as our Saviour for having saved us when we had first believed.
 
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Helen

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You got it right. I believe in eternal security otherwise those who do not depart from iniquity, including former believers, would not be vessels unto dishonor in His House ( 2 Timothy 2:18-21 ). The reason that the vessels unto dishonor are in His House is to testify to the power of God in salvation for all those that believe in Him, even in His name ( John 1:12-13 )

But the high prize of our calling is to run that race as a saved believer by looking to the author & finisher of our faith to help us lay aside every weight & sin to be received by the Bridegroom as vessels unto honor in His House; not for obtaining or maintaining salvation, les we deny Him as our Saviour for having saved us when we had first believed.

Amen..true words...
 

Reggie Belafonte

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You sure don't sound Christian from the way you talk.
Posters such as yourself should not even receive replies.
You should remove curses and hate from your speech.

And next time you read through the N.T., try to pay attention to how many times Jesus spoke of salvation. You'll find that it was only about 4 or 5 times. Try to find out how many times Jesus spoke of belonging to the Kingdom of God here on earth and WHAT WE MUST DO to be a part of it. You'll find that it was about 100X.

If it wasn't for the Catholic church holding Christianity together for 2,000 years...we wouldn't even be here talking about it.
You sound like a Socialist Nazi type to me, all Socialist are of Satan, such work so as to lead the whole world astray and they do not like people who have there own mind or being challenged and go on a rampage against anyone who stands up to them, did you know that, such come across all sweet but are wolfs in sheep's clothing.
Do I point out anything wrong with the Popes before Pope Frances ? no ! but I do not like Pope Frances at all.

Problem is with most Christians is they are just lukewarm and that is an offence to Jesus Christ in fact.

Hate speech is a modern day propaganda tool that only moronic cultural Marxist use to work to destroy freedom of speech.

The Kingdome of God, do you know who are in the Kingdome of God, the Bible points out who can not enter, do you even know who such are ? it does not say what you must do to be part of it at all, it's about what you can't do or be, too be in it in fact, I suggest you study the Bible.
Lets talk about Sin and the wagers of Sin are ? death, there is no light in Sin so that means there is no truth in such ? what one may regard as hate speech in fact just maybe the truth you know of only really frustration of being feed to swallow crap.

Sin is hate a sin ? how many times in the Bible does it point out what God Hates ? oh yes God hates, did you know that ? it's a fact !

According to the new age Political Correct mob the Bible is hate speech and they want to get rid of all Bibles and not to have it in schools or Governments, why is this hey ! because they Hate the Bible and Jesus Christ.
Try to have a good look at yourself and all the staunch Atheist out there you have one thing in common with and that is you all idolise is Political Correctness as your god and such in force there doctrines on everyone, such is only truly the madness of man, it's you must this you must that, true Christianity does not force anyone to do anything, it's the Devil who in forces people to do under temptations and did you know that such temptations are truly cunning as, so you should be on guard against such temptations, did you know that ! I do not just swallow what ever one tells me or just go along for the ride and do you ever here from me try to shut someone up on the forum ?
I never have did such in my life, people speak around me as freely as and you know what I learn a lot from people who speak freely and I in fact in courage such, as it gets it of their goat.
People have tantrums yelling and so on the job site, do I shun them because if it, never ! no I understand them and it does not offend me at all what they say, they are doing a crappy job that most could not handle anyway, be it the extreme heat or being bitten by horse fly's, attacked, ripped off you name it.

You will never have a Kingdome of God with gutless wimps who follow in mans works with the likes of little prissy in a air-con office people who can not handle the truth and just dismiss whatever one says and toss every burden at you without any regard, such are like letter of the law types that dismiss the reality's, because they turn a blind eye to such because they can not handle the truth and off with the pixies.

Who said I was against the Catholic Church, I have never said that, but one should be on guard at all times because the rot can set in and it has as Pope JPII and Pope Ben and other Popes warned about. it's just not me you know, many Cardinals are warning about Pope Frances crap.
I am not a lover of Vatican II because it turned away from Jesus Christ and concentred more on the worldly points of view than the true Holy Spirit that is the well spring.
So it's been a game play of undermining slowly to fool the majority at work with there trickery.
The workings of the Satanic Zionist infiltrated the RCC through the Jesuit order and they dabbled in WW2 and worked to undermine the true RCC all through there Jesuit order and Pope Francis is a Jesuit and they are evils, totally evil they are the seed behind all the child molesters poofters and all the grubs that have been hidden from being dealt with by the Law for years, it's a huge organisation of Satanist filth that is in bed with the governments and that's why church attendance has fallen and many good people who wanted to become priest were pushed out, for wimpy blind followers who are to gutless to stand up to the satanic dictating types.

The same tactics worked in the Fall of Israel and Judah, they creped in and bastardised the people with filth and got control over all through Political means, so they push the people to become politically Correct and that is a Satanic game play that always rejects God being number one in ones life, so you then have 2 masters now, so that you will love one and hate the other Bible says.

So we now are now at the cross roads of End of Times and it has be created by mans works, it has noting to do with God at all. but Satanist and all there hogwash and they openly say they want this crap, Billions of people are going to die murdered and starved to death.
 

aspen

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What does being a lukewarm Christian look like?

Does it mean we are called to be zealots or fundamentalists?
 
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Reggie Belafonte

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What does being a lukewarm Christian look like?

Does it mean we are called to be zealots or fundamentalists?
No lukewarm is lukewarm such is just not born again of the Holy Spirit.
At least lukewarm is warm and not cold.
Lukewarm is like, oh ye of little faith, now that's fine but the hope is that one will have faith that can move mountains.
Like the Parable of the weeds.

Fundamentalist i have come across are of different types, some are Zealots and some are not.

I do not believe in being fanatical, but guided by the Holy Spirit.

I hate dictating people ranting and raving, I know one and you can not converse with that type, they are possessed by demons, it's all the Law type madness according to them, like Islam a man with rabies.
 

aspen

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No lukewarm is lukewarm such is just not born again of the Holy Spirit.
At least lukewarm is warm and not cold.
Lukewarm is like, oh ye of little faith, now that's fine but the hope is that one will have faith that can move mountains.
Like the Parable of the weeds.

Fundamentalist i have come across are of different types, some are Zealots and some are not.

I do not believe in being fanatical, but guided by the Holy Spirit.

I hate dictating people ranting and raving, I know one and you can not converse with that type, they are possessed by demons, it's all the Law type madness according to them, like Islam a man with rabies.

So lukewarm has to do with faith.....

What is faith?
 
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VictoryinJesus

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What is faith?

I woke up the other morning with this question on my mind. To me, Faith is not inforcing our will to have ‘faith’ to achieve what we want, but is submitting to God’s will even when Gods will doesn’t make sense. Because we whole-heartily believe He is good and we should follow His lead and not our own. It’s trust. Completely. To walk in newness of life; God has to lead us somewhere we have never been. How will we know the way, if we don’t trust and believe Him enough to follow?
 
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aspen

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I woke up the other morning with this question on my mind. To me, Faith is not inforcing our will to have ‘faith’ to achieve what we want, but is submitting to God’s will even when Gods will doesn’t make sense. Because we whole-heartily believe He is good and we should follow His lead and not our own. It’s trust. Completely. To walk in newness of life; God has to lead us somewhere we have never been. How will we know the way, if we don’t trust and believe Him enough to follow?

Good definition.

I tend to believe in a similar way. For me, faith is the suspension of opinion, which is more than not negative, long enough to learn a new way to live.
 

Nancy

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No lukewarm is lukewarm such is just not born again of the Holy Spirit.
At least lukewarm is warm and not cold.
Lukewarm is like, oh ye of little faith, now that's fine but the hope is that one will have faith that can move mountains.
Like the Parable of the weeds.

Fundamentalist i have come across are of different types, some are Zealots and some are not.

I do not believe in being fanatical, but guided by the Holy Spirit.

I hate dictating people ranting and raving, I know one and you can not converse with that type, they are possessed by demons, it's all the Law type madness according to them, like Islam a man with rabies.

Would be much better if they were cold: Rev.3 15-16 "I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot; I wish that you were cold or hot. 16‘So because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of My mouth."
 

GodsGrace

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You got it right. I believe in eternal security otherwise those who do not depart from iniquity, including former believers, would not be vessels unto dishonor in His House ( 2 Timothy 2:18-21 ). The reason that the vessels unto dishonor are in His House is to testify to the power of God in salvation for all those that believe in Him, even in His name ( John 1:12-13 )

But the high prize of our calling is to run that race as a saved believer by looking to the author & finisher of our faith to help us lay aside every weight & sin to be received by the Bridegroom as vessels unto honor in His House; not for obtaining or maintaining salvation, les we deny Him as our Saviour for having saved us when we had first believed.
We find verses in the N.T. that could support OSAS and that could support loss of salvation. I've based my decision on what most mainline churches believe, which would be what their theologians believe and I do think they know a lot more than I do.

Also, it seems to make sense to me. OSAS can be a dangerous concept for new Christians. I know that most do change their lives and do as Jesus said,,,but what about the ones that don't because they feel their sins (a sinful life, not individual sins) are covered? Are they in danger of losing their salvation because they don't obey God? God has always demanded obedience. Not obedience because we're under the law. Our unrighteous works do not save us since we don't have a relationship with God. But obedience because it's obedience of faith. Our faith in Jesus makes us want to do good works or deeds.
Romans 1:5
Romans 16:26

As to these vessels you keep talking about, I am going to study up on this. I'm familiar with the vessels spoken of in Romans 9, but I have a feeling you mean something different.
 

Nancy

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We find verses in the N.T. that could support OSAS and that could support loss of salvation. I've based my decision on what most mainline churches believe, which would be what their theologians believe and I do think they know a lot more than I do.

Also, it seems to make sense to me. OSAS can be a dangerous concept for new Christians. I know that most do change their lives and do as Jesus said,,,but what about the ones that don't because they feel their sins (a sinful life, not individual sins) are covered? Are they in danger of losing their salvation because they don't obey God? God has always demanded obedience. Not obedience because we're under the law. Our unrighteous works do not save us since we don't have a relationship with God. But obedience because it's obedience of faith. Our faith in Jesus makes us want to do good works or deeds.
Romans 1:5
Romans 16:26

As to these vessels you keep talking about, I am going to study up on this. I'm familiar with the vessels spoken of in Romans 9, but I have a feeling you mean something different.

Good morning GodsGrace,
My understanding is that those who have been saved, will not themselves be judged for their sin but their works, will be burned up like hay and stubble and the person will be found to be a vessel of dishonor if not done in the Spirit of Christ. I'm sure you will get others to maybe make this clearer...I'm not too clear o it myself!
Have a blessed day,
-nancy